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  1. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    Not to be harsh, but most of your examples are flawed.

    Originally Posted by dphirschler
    Venue rules and band rules do not equal the law. The law says that selling bootlegs is illegal. I don't believe it says anything about making a recording not authorized by the band or venue... only selling it.
    Flaw: Ask the guys with night-vision goggles in theaters.

    Originally Posted by dphirschler
    Let me ask you this. If you are in Boston and you see the Ben Franklin look-a-like walking around posing for snapshots for a small fee. Is it against the law to take his picture without paying for it? I say no. Now publishing the photo without his permission may be, but not taking the picture. Same goes for taking pictures or videos of flashing girls at Mardi Gras.
    It is not against the law because they are both in a public setting. The concerts are not. You must pay to get in. If you happen to videotape girls flashing their ta-tas at the concert, but not the concert itself, that's okay.
    If the Ben Franklin guy were in a tent or something, it would be illegal to take his picture without paying, but then it would probably be moot, since they'd probably not allow cameras inside.

    Originally Posted by dphirschler
    Or what if you video a birthday party while a "public performance" of Happy Birthday is being sung? Is that video illegal?
    As long as you don't sell or distribute it.
    I'm still suspicious of that whole copyright thing. I think there should be more investigation doneon the origin of that song.
    Originally Posted by dphirschler
    But just because the band or venue wishes you didn't do that, doesn't mean you can't still legally do it. If I don't want people to say the words "Niagra Falls" around me, are they breaking the law if they say it? Certainly not!
    Actually, that's exactly what it means. The band and/or label has full rights to the music and performance. You do not.
    If you had the rights to the words "Niagra Falls", then others couldn't record you saying it at a "concert" without your permission. Just like you can say "Dave Matthews" all you want, but you can't record his concerts without express permission.
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  2. Here's the link to the guy who owns a video rental store & was backing up his rental discs. https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225012&highlight=video+store
    8 friggin' pages worth of "help."
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  3. Member housepig's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Supreme2k
    Not to be harsh, but most of your examples are flawed.

    Originally Posted by dphirschler
    Venue rules and band rules do not equal the law. The law says that selling bootlegs is illegal. I don't believe it says anything about making a recording not authorized by the band or venue... only selling it.
    Flaw: Ask the guys with night-vision goggles in theaters.
    ah, but there's a flaw in your argument (as well as Waheed's) - we're not talking about camcording a movie in the theater. we're talking about camcording a concert, which is a separate and distinct situation.

    yes, the band can have your camera taken away in a venue. so can the operators of the venue (I had Henry Rollins tell me that he didn't mind me videotaping his show, but the venue [in that case, The Birchmere, in Arlington, VA] had a policy against videotaping. so I didn't videotape, I audiotaped instead).

    but if the band and the venue let you do it, it's still a bootleg - it's an unofficial recording, unsanctioned by the record label - but it's not the same as pirating a movie in the theater.

    when it comes right down to it, I'll abide by the mods and Baldrick. what I would like in that case is something to the effect of "okay, it's not the same as piracy, but we still don't want it on the site."

    it's like driving 60 miles an hour on a deserted stretch of road posted 55, or driving 60 miles an hour, drunk, through a 25mph school zone at 3:00 in the afternoon - both are speeding and breaking the law, but there is a substantive difference between them.

    and will this end up being another "don't ask, don't tell" policy? "I've got this concert footage that has bad horizontal hold" instead of "I've got this bootleg of Aerosmith at the Garden in '75 that has bad horizontal hold"...

    @Headbanger -

    don't be so hard on the mods - if no one else reported it, it's not their fault they didn't catch it, they can't be everywhere. if they fail to act on it now (assuming it's still a live thread), that's a different story.
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  4. Originally Posted by Supreme2k
    Flaw: Ask the guys with night-vision goggles in theaters.
    In Los Angeles, CA, I believe there is a law on the books about camcorders in the movie theater. But I was not talking about videoing a movie, I am talking about unauthorized recording of live concerts.

    Originally Posted by Supreme2k
    It is not against the law because they are both in a public setting. The concerts are not. You must pay to get in.
    Makes no difference. New laws don't exist just because a venue or band wants it to. All they can do is ask you not to, and ask you to leave if you violate the rules.

    It's the act of selling it that is expressly illegal... and even that used to be legal.


    Darryl
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  5. Some more info...

    http://www.gweep.net/~sfoskett/music/bootlegal.html

    I don't know this guy, but he seems to have done his homework.


    Darryl
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  6. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by housepig
    ah, but there's a flaw in your argument (as well as Waheed's) - we're not talking about camcording a movie in the theater. we're talking about camcording a concert, which is a separate and distinct situation.
    There's really no difference. Copyright violation is the same in either case.

    Originally Posted by housepig
    yes, the band can have your camera taken away in a venue. so can the operators of the venue (I had Henry Rollins tell me that he didn't mind me videotaping his show, but the venue [in that case, The Birchmere, in Arlington, VA] had a policy against videotaping. so I didn't videotape, I audiotaped instead).
    Which is still illegal.
    As nice of a guy as Henry is, he is still "owned" by someone else when it comes to his performances, so he really has no say. Just like how Michael Moore doesn't mind the pirating of F911.

    Originally Posted by housepig
    but if the band and the venue let you do it, it's still a bootleg - it's an unofficial recording, unsanctioned by the record label - but it's not the same as pirating a movie in the theater.
    Ah-ha! There it is.

    Originally Posted by housepig
    when it comes right down to it, I'll abide by the mods and Baldrick. what I would like in that case is something to the effect of "okay, it's not the same as piracy, but we still don't want it on the site."
    Exactly!

    Originally Posted by housepig
    it's like driving 60 miles an hour on a deserted stretch of road posted 55, or driving 60 miles an hour, drunk, through a 25mph school zone at 3:00 in the afternoon - both are speeding and breaking the law, but there is a substantive difference between them.
    You'd be surprised at the times the asshle cops are hanging around. Besides, it's not a fair comparison when the excess isn't the same, and you throw in drunk driving on top of it (illegal at any speed). I doubt if you'd get busted any more if you were sober, doing 30 in a school zone.

    Originally Posted by housepig
    and will this end up being another "don't ask, don't tell" policy? "I've got this concert footage that has bad horizontal hold" instead of "I've got this bootleg of Aerosmith at the Garden in '75 that has bad horizontal hold"...
    This has always been my stance regardless of legality. You don't even need the "concert" part in there to get help. It helps to know that you have a 2 Gig Pentium and 512 Meg of ram. It doesn't help to know the name of the band, the date of the birthday party, or if you had a headache that day. If you're having a bad horizontal hold problem, does it matter if it's footage of Aerosmith or Linkin Park? Well, it migh, as it may be suggested to clean the vomit from your camera
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  7. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Headbanger's Ball
    Here's the link to the guy who owns a video rental store & was backing up his rental discs.
    8 friggin' pages worth of "help."
    Actually, most of the thread is either debate about "Fair Use" or trying to assess if there is indeed a "new form of copy protection" Plus a couple.few pages of petar & MackemX lovefest.

    There were even a few posts deriding the backing up of his store. The petar was also reported (the reports have since been purged and renewed).
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  8. Member housepig's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Supreme2k
    As nice of a guy as Henry is, he is still "owned" by someone else when it comes to his performances, so he really has no say. Just like how Michael Moore doesn't mind the pirating of F911.
    not true - if Henry owns his copyrights, the record label owns the copyright on the sound recording of the material they release, which is distinct from the copyright on the composition of the song itself.

    Imago or Dreamworks or whoever can't tell Rollins he can't perform "Liar"... he wrote it. He owns it. it's his. he can't take the version that was on the album and put it on another cd without their permission, but he can put out live versions on his own until the cows come home.

    in contrast, Michael Moore has assigned the rights to F9/11 to Lion's Gate, and it's their movie now - they own it for as long as thier distro deal is set up for.

    so if I record a live performance of "Liar", Dreamworks can't do shit - they don't own it. If I take the version from the album and release it as a single, they can land on me with both feet.
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  9. Fb, pna jr gnyx nobhg jnerm vs jr rapelcg gur zrffntrf, be vf gung fgvyy n ivbyngvba bs gur NHC???
    "Terminated!" :firing:
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  10. Originally Posted by Cobra
    I agree with Capmaster. The rules are quite clear.

    In this case, the poster actually said "these are bootleg" - this implies that they are illegal. As soon as a mod sees that, the knee-jerk is to shut it down. It does not matter if it is not clear - we must keep this site free of warez.

    Cobra
    I see a lot of this "We must keep this site free of warez" and can understand it but yet, we see posts that are clearly breaking the law as it stands being allowed to run unfettered.
    Example here would be interested in a mods responce.
    Not bothered by small problems...
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  11. Master of Time & Space Capmaster's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thayne
    Fb, pna jr gnyx nobhg jnerm vs jr rapelcg gur zrffntrf, be vf gung fgvyy n ivbyngvba bs gur NHC???
    No. Warez is warez in whatever language
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  12. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what thayne is saying, but the word rape is in there
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  13. Master of Time & Space Capmaster's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Supreme2k
    I'm not sure what thayne is saying, but the word rape is in there
    The ROT-13 translation says he's asking if mentioning warez in an encrypted post, like ROT-13, would be OK.
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  14. Member CoasterCreator's Avatar
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    Bestiality ???what well if you let your dog kiss you/ lick you in the face would that be beastiality if so .I am guilty I love my rotties...anyway I always wondered what are the movie / concert staff are going to do with these new cell phones with pix/ video capabilities ...confiscate or not allow. sorry to be off topic but I think I heard enough
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