The Cost of Piracy: A Rant

[menes777]

The India special wouldn't hurt me now since I have the Supreme at my side, sabre in hand!

Avast!!!!!



Ok so there are no emoticons for smiling faces wielding sabres, but I put the closest thing that I could

[Guest]

Man this thread is getting stale

[iooi]

Truth hurts don't it....
Since having the obivious pointed out all the loud mouths have shut up...

[gitreel]

iooi,

I beg to differ.

Just because it is not currently legal in the US, does not mean it is illegal everywhere else.
:P

[2-cat]

Ya know, there's one thing in this thread I myself HIGHLY *object* to:
the apparent assumption being made here in the thread that *Downloads* are 'de facto' Illegal.

AUP states "Warez includes downloaded copyrighted movies, movies that are not yet released on VHS/DVD and copying rented movies"
Yet tenor of thread is that ALL downloaded video material is in fact illegal.


I wish to mention that *I* myself have literally hundreds of Downloaded *copyrighted* Music
Video clips; LEGALLY downloaded free from various music sites (often from the sites of the performers themselves).
Many of these are in what I consider 'poor' formats (asf, wmv, qt, mov, rm, & etc) that I am
converting to mpeg for PERSONAL archiving to disk (CD & DVD), not for 'distribution'.
& this doesn't included the non copyrighted (eg material for which no actual copyright is claimed nor has been applied for) I also have as much or more of.


Yet the tenor of the thread is that I have no 'legal' reason to wish to do such conversions, nor any 'legally downloaded' material to do so with.


Now what I am refering to is NOT 'streamcaps' which would be an illicit download; but files which are openly & plainly made available for free straight download, which makes the downloaded copy 'mine' just as if it were purchased somewhere.
eg. I have *legal* possession of a copy of the video!

The various sites I have obtained the files from specifically mention that I cannot 'distribute' the material; but make no statements as to the manner of archiving for my own personal use.


SO:
my 'comment' is GET OFF this bit that "download" automatically = "illegal/illicit".

It does NOT; & IMO offers a rather interesting view into the mentality of those who appear to hold this opinion.
eg. ya mean YOU can't find stuff to legally Download on the internet so ya must spend yer time on p2p & the like looking for 'other' material.
To me this shows a great *lack* in knowning how ta use the net.

[Supreme2k]

sunderland and iooi,

It's that type of mentality that causes so many frivolous lawsuits. Why not blame the hardware/garden store for selling the fertilizer, ammonia and other ingredients used to make a bomb that killed many people? Maybe the rapist should say "She has a vagina. She knew I would use it!"

2-cat,
No one says that merely downloading video clips is inherently illegal. What most object to (of those who object), is when you have people saying that they downloaded (movie currently at theaters) from P2P, or they have 138 rars of a movie. What I have said for a while is that we don't need to know the peripheral info on a file to help the person. All that we need to know is (maybe) machine specs and file format (bitrate, audio type, NTSC/PAL). Knowing that it is Catwoman or your brother's root canal operation won't help us a bit to help you out.

While I'm here, anyone quoting the front page to justify the "condoning" of piracy...

What is this site about?
This site will help you to make your own VideoCDs, SVCDs or DVDs that can be played on your standalone DVD Player from video sources like DVD, Video, TV, DV, Cam or downloaded movie clips like DivX, MOV, RM, WMV and ASF. We also have extensive lists of Capture Cards, DVD Media, DVD Writers and desktop DVD Players with features, compatibility information and user comments. Use the menu to the left to navigate our site. Enjoy.

... really needs to look closely at the above word in bold.

[2-cat]

mr supreme2k:

Read your very first post carefully!

You make NO distinction OR allowance for legal downloads.



& as burnamn99 points out; there is some fairly heavy usage of rar files for *legal* trading of personal video files (mainly so as to prevent 'resume' problems in case of broken Download & so dialup users can grab things in portions when they have time.

also, a few of the better quality (in the meaning of the quality of vids they offer) 'adult' sites use rars (or multiple zips).



& as jimmalenko somewhat alludes to; there ARE many older movies out there that ARE "in the public domain"!

[Supreme2k]

You make NO distinction OR allowance for legal downloads.

No. I make allowances only for legal downloads. I make the distinction very clear.

& as burnamn99 points out; there is some fairly heavy usage of rar files for *legal* trading of personal video files (mainly so as to prevent 'resume' problems in case of broken Download & so dialup users can grab things in portions when they have time.

Good thing I'm gardening, because I'll need that extra BULLSHIT. The mail system and UPS is your friend. If you can afford broadband and a place to store massive Gigs online, you can afford the cost (under $2) to send a DVD chock full of video clips anywhere.

also, a few of the better quality (in the meaning of the quality of vids they offer) 'adult' sites use rars (or multiple zips).

Bullshit, part 2. But assuming that, get help from them. You bought the p0rn, so you're entitled to help from them to get it playing.

& as jimmalenko somewhat alludes to; there ARE many older movies out there that ARE "in the public domain"!

If he "alluded" to that, he's fullashit :P
Besides "Birth of a Nation", name two.

Buuuuuuut, as I have said, what does the title of the movie or where you got it from have to do with conversion or its ability toplay on a standalone?

[iooi]

sunderland and iooi,

It's that type of mentality that causes so many frivolous lawsuits.

Whoa right there bud... You started with a rant about people making posts that breach the AUP (for want of a better expression) of this board and the fact it could end up getting this board shut down... Well i got news for you it isnt stuff like that, that will its hosting files that explain HOW TO that will.......
Lets face it 3-2-1 got shut down as their software broke encription and they at least asked if you owned the film and added a disclaimer saying so when you used the software, unlike the other software we all know about.
This board is a bit like dvdcoverart was, skating very close to the edge on what could be turmed legal. Upset one company and boom your gone history.
Your the one who opened the snake pit.
Now get off your high horse. Wake up and smell a dose of reality....

Like others have said just because download in mentioned doesn't mean its illegal nor the fact its in 59 rars either.... I put my own films into rars like that to send to friends as its far easier to correct one small rar than sent a whole film again....Why not burn them and post them well my friends are world wide and its far quicker and cheaper for all of us to share over the net than waste time posting discs...

GITREEL
Could you also explain where in the world at present it is legal to break encription coz it sure as hell aint here in the UK, Russia, Aussie land, Japan, China, Canada etc...

[iooi]

iooi,

I beg to differ.

Just because it is not currently legal in the US,

Thanks for pointing out that its illegal in america still....
So
here is
just the sort of post that could shut the board down.....
No mention of downloading or rars etc. Doesn't break the AUP policy either.
Just plain how do i back up my copy off..... Where is he from... Mmm America funny that aint it....

[Supreme2k]

Lets face it 3-2-1 got shut down as their software broke encription and they at least asked if you owned the film and added a disclaimer saying so when you used the software, unlike the other software we all know about.

Because a reasonable assumption is made. That's why rolling paper does not say "Please do not use this paper to smoke marijuana."

This board is a bit like dvdcoverart was, skating very close to the edge on what could be turmed legal. Upset one company and boom your gone history.
Your the one who opened the snake pit.

I said nothing about jumping in with Snake Chow smeared all over yourself.
Just as in my papers example, you can talk about rolling your "product", but they make no mention here of going to the rental store or downloading the cam of the newest release.

Like others have said just because download in mentioned doesn't mean its illegal nor the fact its in 59 rars either....
1. I put my own films into rars like that to send to friends as its far easier to correct one small rar than sent a whole film again....
BULLSHIT

Why not burn them and post them well my friends are world wide and its far quicker and cheaper for all of us to share over the net than waste time posting discs...
BULLSHIT

How many full films have you produced, Speilberg?

Again, if you're having problems with your rars or your friends' rars, why not ask them for help? Are they could ask you. Leave this site out of it. No one comeshere from Warner Brothers and says "I got these post production clips from the PP group. How do I merge them with the other stuff that we created?"
The million people on P2P are not your close, personal friends.

[iooi]

[How many full films have you produced, Speilberg?

Again, if you're having problems with your rars or your friends' rars, why not ask them for help? Are they could ask you. Leave this site out of it. No one comeshere from Warner Brothers and says "I got these post production clips from the PP group. How do I merge them with the other stuff that we created?"
The million people on P2P are not your close, personal friends.

I take it you dont have family worldwide that you send and recieve HOMEMADE videos to then... Many run up to 2 hours...Boring as hell but the folks like to see the progress of small family members and family get togethers....
We all have broardband connections so why should we line the post offices and carriers pockets...
P2P have never used it in my life and have no intention of either.

That's why rolling paper does not say "Please do not use this paper to smoke marijuana."

No but buy a pack of cigeretts and its says....

SMOKING KILLS
or other such warning on it....

[Supreme2k]

Still didn't answer my question.

Again, if you're having problems with your rars or your friends' rars, why not ask them for help? Are they could ask you. Leave this site out of it.

And don't change your story to fit your realization. You said "friends" first, then changed it to "family" to get the sympathy vote. :/

No but buy a pack of cigeretts and its says....

SMOKING KILLS
or other such warning on it....

Wrong analogy. Cigarettes are the end product, while rolling papers are merely a tool/component (for cigarettes or joints). Just like the tools here are not specifically for renting a movie and copying it. Just like a hex editor can be used to debug your own programs or to crack shareware.


BONUS
Actual warning on cigarettes:
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy.

[Nelson37]

This site is about video conversions and manipulations of all types. I think that is without question.

It is when unjustified accusations of illegal activity are made that I get very upset. A collection of RAR files is not necessarily illegal. Perhaps the person who created the original video did not know what they were doing and are therefore useless to help fix it. There are even copyrighted DVD's which are sold with permission to copy. (the Smile Channel from Casey corporation, for instance). Unless there is VERY CLEAR evidence that someone's actions are illegal, there is NO ONE HERE who has the right to designate someone a criminal. Even Baldrick does NOT have that right, just the power to allow or not allow a certain post. This site is his property, after all.

Almost any action can be good or bad, depending on circumstance. I once yanked a child violently to one side, bruising her arm and almost dislocating her shoulder in the process. I can already hear the screams of "child abuse". But when you hear that she was blocking my path to my infant son, who was choking and turning blue, and she had refused 2 requests to move out of the way, and moved to physically block my path, makes it a different story, doesn't it?

Unless you have all the facts, you should not make ASSumptions.

I have read here that downloading a copyrighted movie may be OK if you already own a legal copy. Perhaps it was damaged somehow.

Note on the band video bootlegs. It is quite possible that the band members themselves do not have the authority to allow taping, if they have already sold those rights to someone else.

[Supreme2k]

It is when unjustified accusations of illegal activity are made that I get very upset. A collection of RAR files is not necessarily illegal. Perhaps the person who created the original video did not know what they were doing and are therefore useless to help fix it.

That is where the postal service comes into play. They skip the rars, burn it to disc, and send it to their "friend".

There are even copyrighted DVD's which are sold with permission to copy. (the Smile Channel from Casey corporation, for instance). Unless there is VERY CLEAR evidence that someone's actions are illegal, there is NO ONE HERE who has the right to designate someone a criminal. Even Baldrick does NOT have that right, just the power to allow or not allow a certain post. This site is his property, after all.

Actually, EVERYONE here has the right to designate someone else a criminal. It's called opinion. That's what most message boards contain. I doubt that there are many (if any) law enforcement officials on these boards, and they couldn't do much (if anything) anyways.
The Smile channel may give permission to copy, but not to distribute.
EDIT: Actually, here's a direct quote from their end-user license:
Limitations On License:the license does not include the right to market, rent, lease, lend, sell, offer for lease, import, export, reproduce...Your license rights under this agreement will terminate automatically upon any violation of this section

Almost any action can be good or bad, depending on circumstance. I once yanked a child violently to one side, bruising her arm and almost dislocating her shoulder in the process. I can already hear the screams of "child abuse". But when you hear that she was blocking my path to my infant son, who was choking and turning blue, and she had refused 2 requests to move out of the way, and moved to physically block my path, makes it a different story, doesn't it?

But that's the point: too much information. What some of these people do is akin to you simply saying "Today, I yanked a kid by the arm and almost dislocated her shoulder. How do I help a choking victim?"
Many of these people post about movie downloads from BT (notorious for warez) instead of simply stating the file type they want to convert.
Basically, get to the point. It's "I saved my kid from choking today", not "I man-handled a little girl today." The "child abuse" part of your story would be just plain baiting.

I have read here that downloading a copyrighted movie may be OK if you already own a legal copy. Perhaps it was damaged somehow.

That's bullshit. An ounce of backup is worth a download of cure. Just like if you buy a movie and lose it (without backing up). You've lost your rights to it.I've made this analogy before, but it's like buying food for yourself, but your dog eats it or you drop it on the way home. You can't go to the restaurant and demand they give you a replacement.

[iooi]

Supreme2k
Where did i say i had a problem with my rars ???
Friends, family tis all the same over here in blighty..I assume you are a yank by your "I'm never wrong attitude"
From your analogies we had better ban metal then.... Save a lot of lives in friendly fire..... Nope got a better idea ban the human interface on computers......
End of story as far as i'm concerned now as you obversely arnt going to see any other persons view point on the issue.

[EvilKid]

I also have a problem with supreme2k attitude. And I bet other people do too.

[menes777]

I don't think that Supreme2k has an attitude, I think he has a passion against people who mask their nefarious ways by trying to pull the sympathy ploy (I got those rars from my family about their dogs funeral) or some other lame excuse (Rars are also used for pron).

Yes he is outspoken about how he feels, yes this was his thread, if you don't like his opinion or how he responds to it, quit commenting on the thread. If you strongly feel that you must convert him then you will lose, he isn't going to change because of your compelling and enlightening speeches.

If you know you aren't downloading illegal things, then blow him off and give him the finger . Else you just sound like you are trying to cover up for your illicit activities and justify it to the board and to yourself.

(although secretly I think that Supreme2k is a pirate at heart, just a benevolant one in a Johnny Depp sort of way, but that's another story).

Ok start flaming because I am ready

Oh no I missed!

[dosun]

That is where the postal service comes into play. They skip the rars, burn it to disc, and send it to their "friend".

I don't understand why you are making this assumption. There are plenty of people out there that make independent clips and like to distribute it using the internet either to the public or friends and family. Why should they pay the pay $2-$3 to mail the items out when its easier, faster and more convienent to do it over the net.

[menes777]

I think that S2k's main point is this.

Instead of saying this...........
"I downloaded this movie last night through bit torrent and now I can't get the subtitles to work"

say this..........
"I am having problems with subtitles in this movie"

This leaves out the fact that warez was ever involved and leaves everyone with a clear conscience about helping. The other frivolous discussions about rars, smoking warnings, and choking children are just argumentative crap that were brought in to distract from the main point. Unfortunately S2k fell into the trap of arguing against it.

[Supreme2k]

iooi, while I could make a jab about your nationality, I will not lower myself. My main point was about asking for help with rars, so if you have no problem with your rars, fine.That means that you will not create a post like this. Again, why do we need to know the video was in 158 rars to help you with authoring?

dosun, I don't understand why we have to be their support center. Why don't you "independent filmmakers" help people with the playing, converting and burning of your clips?

menes777, while I appreciate you backing up my point, it's falling on deaf ears (or eyes?). Repetition does not seem to work with some of those here.

EvilKid, just Shut The **** Up. There should be at least an "over 15" requirement for this site.

[indolikaa]

I also have a problem with supreme2k attitude. And I bet other people do too.

Fabulous.

I have no problem with Supreme2k's attitude. He's formed an opinion, voiced it publicly, and is defending it vigorously. What's wrong with that?

You got bitch-slapped by the videohelp.com Bad Boy for asking a rather ignorant question. The answer is simple: if the material is copyrighted, you need permission from the copyright holder to download it. You were asking the wrong group of people.

You also have 8 posts to your name. If you've gotten offended THAT quick since your debut here, you better work on thickening your skin a little.

[EvilKid]

I was piss off because of this topic here
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=234652

All i just wanted to know if it was illegal or not and then i got an attitude from Supreme2k

[indolikaa]

I was piss off because of this topic here
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=234652

All i just wanted to know if it was illegal or not and then i got an attitude from Supreme2k

Yes, I know that. I did a forum search and found the thread in question.

[burnman99]

If this site is so concerned about being shutdown, they should simply remove
anything that is questionable, namely the guides/forum to DVD Ripping. Ripping is not rocket science anyways. The ripping guide may very well BE legal, but it does tend to encourage the "Why can't i get Kill Bill 98 to fit on my floppy" type of questions. Just a thought.

Have fun stormin' the castle!

Rog

[menes777]

I just can't help but keep hammering the nail into the bricks



Evil kid, here's a quick tip on life, sometimes you get lemons, use those lemons to make lemonade.

Yes you will get people who don't answer your questions like you think that they should have. People are different and have different approaches to things. Yes they will make you mad, yes YOU yourself will make people mad.

If you can't or won't get over that fact then you need to either grow up or take read the book "Dealing with your hurt feelings for Dummies" or my personal favorite "How to grow up for the complete idiot". Life sucks, but it's all we have, so get use to it.

Personally this isn't my first forum that I have been on. Other ones that I joined severally brutalized me when I first joined, sort of hazing I guess, but I lived through it.

This isn't a personal jab, but Evilkid maybe you should get friends outside of the forums to better understand how other people think and how to deal with people.

[EvilKid]

hmmm...
Why is every one opposing me???
I just stopped until you just said that.

[indolikaa]

hmmm...
Why is every one opposing me???
I just stopped until you just said that.

Nobody is opposing you. You want to see REAL opposition, get me fired up and we'll talk.

EvilKid,

At face value, the question was legitimate. However, you missed a critical detail prior to your posting that might have saved you some gruff. The Forum Rules/AUP clearly state that 'warez' is defined as including "downloaded copyrighted movies, movies that are not yet released on VHS/DVD and copying rented movies."

What you probably should've asked, in context of the rules, was...
"How do I determine if some anime subs I want to download are legally obtainable over the Internet?"

Now I'm sure some smart-ass, like me, would tell you to look for a copyright notice at the beginning of the film, or at the end when the credits are finished. At that point, you'd at least know WHO to contact in regards to this matter. However, if the XviD experts already hacked out all that stuff before they uploaded, and they often do, then you'd have an excellent example of why the "gray" area exists.

There was nothing wrong with the question.

[EvilKid]

lol
i apologize
don't want to cause any trouble
so just stop

[menes777]

Once the hammer starts it's hard to stop, unless you use bright colors