Has Dual Disc Run Into Problems?

[BJ_M]

author: Jerry Del Colliano
date: August 12, 2004


The Los Angeles Times is reporting some legal snags for the CD/DVD Dual Disc format even before it is released. In an article that was recently posted on the Times’ website said that Philips, who owns much of the intellectual property behind the Compact Disc and licenses the CD logo, wouldn’t let Dual Disc use the CD logo because it didn’t fit into the CD spec. Another angry party is the German firm that created the first Dual Disc. According to the Times, DVD Plus is claiming WEA has breeched their contract which has allowed the record conglomerate to continue to develop the two sided audio-video disc.

Legal problems are nothing new to the music business, however, worries about anti-trust laws also complicate the development of any new audio format. A source who asked to remain anonymous tells Audio Video Revolution that an anti-trust lawyer sits in on every phone call and meeting the major labels have about the new audio format. Labels are so frightened of legal action that they have been advised to not tell the other labels which titles they will be releasing. This kind of legally inspired secrecy makes it somewhat difficult to create a big launch for the disc that is supposed to replace the once mighty Compact Disc.

Dual Disc could be an interesting solution to the value proposition problem the record industry has been struggling with for years now. Younger music consumers want video content for their $16 investment. An easier solution to the Dual Disc problem could be achieved by stealing a move from the movie industry and making every “album” purchased a two disc set. One disc would be a CD complete with MP3s professionally recorded and ready to rip to storage devices. The second disc could be a DVD-Audio disc that includes surround mixes for both DVD-Video and DVD-Audio players along with high resolution stereo tracks (DTS 24-96 for example) and other video goodies. This two disc solution which is found on top DVD-Video movie releases like Shrek (which has two discs: one for the 4:3 and one for the anamorphic version) has three big advantages over Dual Disc. First, the DVD-Audio disc could be a “DVD 9” disc which is capable of much more storage but is thicker than the smaller “DVD 5” disc that is used on a Dual Disc. This allows many more goodies and far fewer compromises in the added values of a disc. Secondly, both CDs and DVD-Audio discs can be mastered and pressed in large volumes. Who knows how many Dual Discs can be created at this point? It is an entirely new format. Lastly, the record buying public gets two for one. American consumers love that and the labels need to make the record buying public feel like buying discs is once again a good idea, especially during the Holiday shopping season.

Bundling DVDs with CDs has in fact been successful in recent years. Adding DVD-Audio discs loaded with goodies might make the recording buying public buy even more discs considering the value for a $16 disc keeps getting better and better.

The biggest hurdle for the labels to overcome is fear. Fear of lawsuits. Fear of new technologies. Fear of new business models. Fear of abandoning formats that don’t sell. Now is the time for all of the majors to step up and vigorously promote a format that is new and exciting. Hopefully, the new snags can be smoothed over in time for a winter release of the format in a way that populates the CD bins of your local record store and on-line retailer with a video and surround sound oriented new format.

Sources: Stereophile.com
LATimes.com

[Ironballs]

BJ_M,

I don't think DVD Audio has a cat's hell chance of suceeding when a vast number of people are happy to download, illegally, mp3 tracks for free. I know MP3 are poor compared to DVD-A but the vast public probably won't care.

For example, a lot of people where I work bring in bootleg films, and honestly when they say hey this film is great quality, I just wonder why they even bothered with DVDs at all. These people just won't shell out 20-30 no matter what 'goodies' the record companies put on the discs.

It's been said before on this site, but the record compaines really should have embraced the internet early. Same thing will happen to movies when more people get broadband.

Just my thoughts this Friday Night. BTW are these DVD-A any good, never had the chance to hear one?

Ironballs

[gitreel]

This is old news. I read about this a week ago.

[yoda313]

Hello,
Dvd-audio will survive (or maybe die a slow death ). But if concert dvd's with 5.1 keep selling well nobody's going to buy a new dvd-audio compatible receiver+dvdplayer until there old one breaks down. I'd want the new stuff but concert dvd discs with 5.1 sound VERY nice to me.

Kevin

P.S. I like the idea of a flipper disc with audio and dvd on the other side. I think there's a Josh Groben album like that. I'm sure there are more.

[spiderman2k1]

most of the time when you hear about problems it's the software. dual layer just came out. So you will hear about problems. until more drives and updated software comes out. After that I think everything will be stable.

[junkmalle]

most of the time when you hear about problems it's the software. dual layer just came out. So you will hear about problems. until more drives and updated software comes out. After that I think everything will be stable.

They're not talking about dual layer DVD, they're talking about hybrid disks which are DVD on one side and CD on the other. Usually an audio CD with some video extras on the flip side.

[ViRaL1]

Is anyone even supporting multichannel MP3; and if so, how does it compare to DVD-Audio / SACD? I picked up a Pioneer 563A (which does both) when they first came out. It's great for DVD movies, but I haven't been able to talk myself into ponying up the money to start a DVD-A or SACD collection. Part of the problem is that these formats are released weeks or even months (most times) after the original CD release. I'm not one to stand in line on a Tuesday morning waiting for the new releases, but I'd at least like to hear them for myself before they're all over the airwaves. I'd love to hear anyone's experiences with either format. The selections seem pretty limited also.

[Nilfennasion]

BTW are these DVD-A any good, never had the chance to hear one?

I've had the pleasure of hearing Bohemian Rhapsody on DVD-A, and it blows the CD away. When I first sat down to listen, I expected to hear subtle little keyboard or guitar notes that I'd never heard before. I heard vocals that I'd never heard before. It actually delivers the age-old promise that it sounds like the band is playing right in front of you.

Which makes it all the more a shame that the labels have proven the format's worst enemy when it comes to gaining mainstream acceptance. Once you hear your favourite songs in 96 khz, 5.1-channel, it is incredibly difficult to go back to CD or especially MP3.

[MackemX]

This is old news. I read about this a week ago.

so why keep it to yourself?

so what if it's old news to you, it's the first I've seen of it here

[RottenFoxBreath]

i managed to pick up pink floyds "dark side of the moon",a few weeks ago for £3.59 in asda,on SACD,well below the price of it on CD.
crazy.
it sounds,IMO,worse on my theatre sytem,than the CD version i bought about 5 years ago.

[kamuixtv]

It depends with the listener, if your contended with your headphone and mp3s then go ahead. Why don't you guys try getting DTS CDs on emule...you will hear "preliminary" effects of DVD-A.

[yoda313]

Hello,

kamuixtv-Why don't you guys try getting DTS CDs on emule...you will hear "preliminary" effects of DVD-A.

Good point. I've got the POLICE greatest hits DTS cd (the one with Sting before he went solo). It ROCKS! The thing is so loud. Even though I'm not a huge fan of the group I just had to test a DTS disc.

My only complaint is the company that produced it seemed to go with a weak CENTER channel. It seemed odd, since in movies that is where the dialogue goes. I would have assumed they would have used the same principle for music.

Oh well, if you don't want to get a new player/receiver DTS CD's do provide a good kick for the buck. The only problem is of course you can't play it in a regular cd player

Kevin

[ViRaL1]

For anyone interested in trying out the new formats, the Pioneer DV-563A is a pretty good all-format player. It does DVD-Audio / SACD / DVD+R/RW / DVD-R/RW, CD-R/RW, Progressive Scan, Dolby Digital and DTS decoding built-in, 5.1 channel RCA, Optical, Digital Coax, S-Video, Component video. It plays pretty much anything I throw at it (no MPEG though) and can be found on PriceGrabber for $155 shipped.

[ViRaL1]

Looks like the 563a has been replaced by the DV-578A, which also does WMA and a better DAC. OneCall has them for $135.