Do you believe extraterrestrial life is possible?

[vitualis]

P.S. Both sides have a point, who's right? We'll probably never know.

Science and religion are not mutually exclusive! In fact they are complimentary.

There is, however, no place for BAD or pseudoscience in religion. Creationist science is NOT a science and I can't believe it is being taught as schools. It is a bloody travesty of the educational system.

As an analogy, it would be like teaching that the Christian God is fact an omnipotent super computer with ability to affect the space-time continuum in religious studies. It's just intellectually offensive.

Regards.

[tompika]

deleted

[yoda313]

Hello,
Before this spirals out of control, I just want to reiterate my original post: I was just asking if people thought there was alien life of any type. I should have been prepared for the religious overtones of such a quesition. For that, I apologize.

If anyone has been offended I am sorry. I'll say here anybody's belief is as valid as anyone elses (no matter what extremists on ALL sides think). If you disagree with me, fine. I just want to say this is about other worldly stuff and wasn't intended to be a religious debate.

Kevin

[vitualis]

It is impossible to know at PRESENT whether or not "life" as we classify it in own specio-centric way exists anywhere else.

It is difficult to even make an educated guess.

We don't really know how the Earth was formed, or how the solar system was formed. We don't really know how likely Earth-like planets would be formed.

We don't know if life could develop on non-Earth like planets.

We don't know how likely "life" is to develop on a primordial Earth.

That's what happens when we're a species that has extremely limited abilities in observing the universe at the astronomical scale that would be required to get the required data...

Regards.

[Will Hay]

Do you believe extraterrestrial life is possible

Yes.

[housepig]

couple things before this thread gets locked - no, not even a couple, because if I post, it will get locked.

I highly recommend the book "Why People Belive Weird Things" by Michael Shermer, which has an excellent section dealing with arguments for and against Creationism.

[housepig]

It is impossible to know at PRESENT whether or not "life" as we classify it in own specio-centric way exists anywhere else.

this is a very good point - intelligent life could be all around us, but if we have no means of detecting it, or communicating with it, it "doesn't exist".

if you cast a net in the ocean, to document sea creatures, and your net is sized to catch 2-inch-and-bigger fish but not 1-inch fish, does this mean that all sea creatures are 2 inches and up, or does it mean you lack the proper tools to determine the whole scope of existing creatures?

[Rookie64]

Yes - it's a very big universe (and there may be even more universes out there)

As for religion, I was raised Roman Catholic and went to Catholic school from 6th grade through 12...and we were taught Science, evolution, parts of Bible being metaphors, etc

I've studied many religions and had extensive study of anthropology and philosophy while in college.

I have a few friends who claim to be atheists.

What I can tell you is with all these different interpretaions...it all seems to be parallel as to summing it all up...we're all really not that different in our beliefs.

I have an open mind about things.

I'm a fan of Maya Deren - and that's what got me into art and experimental films.

Some rentals you may want to check over at Netflix -

Chariots Of The Gods
In The Mirror Of Maya Deren
The Bible According To Hollywood


and for humor, check out The Gods Must Be Crazy

[zzyzzx]

Humans are just apes who got lucky and stopped evolving when they discovered the basics. There are probably way more evolved aliens who don't have our feeble limitations.

[Doramius]

I say screw the mathematics. I believe that there's inteligent life. I figure if it's taken the world 65 billion years to com ethis far with man, and we're slow and lazy people, there's got to be other planets that developed faster than we have. Once we discover how to get to those places, we'll just f**k them and see what kind of mutations we end up with. If they are decent we'll incorporate them into our regular population. If they don't breed a good cross or don't look anything like an attractive human, then we find out what they taste like. If they are good, we add it to the new McD's menu. If they are bad, we kill them all and strip the planet of it's resources and over colonize it. I'll probably be dead once we make it out to other planets and discover this. This is only how I view what will happen. Basically the same thing happened when White man first visited America. Only it was found out that tribal americans have hot women.

[gshelley61]

Treebeard, I'm with you. It's obvious to me that this universe and everything in it was designed. Therefore, there must be a designer.

When you look at a wristwatch, open it and look at all the intricate little moving parts... do you really need to see and meet the watchmaker in person to know the watch was designed and built by someone? Then why is it so hard for people to accept what is obvious if you just look around?

The Big Bang theory can't get past entropy... order does not come from disorder. Disorder tends to become more disorderly. It's like blowing up a letter factory and expecting a dictionary to somehow be the result.

How exactly did we all get here, what is our purpose, why the intricate design in everything all around us? Who knows for sure... I don't. But certainly not an accidental conglomeration of matter that somehow happened to come together for no apparent reason. That's hogwash, IMHO.

Science and history here, not religion...

Oh, yeah... I think there is other life out there somewhere, too.

[Guest]

Sure. I ran through a rough probability equation once and it was something like: The universe has at least 100 billion galaxies. Each galaxy has at least 100 million stars. Even if only one in a million stars had a planet that would support life, and only one in a million of those would have life advanced enough to be sentient, you'd still be almost assured of having millions of planets with sentient life.

It's hard not to consider the likelihood, IMHO.

I agree. I learned that equation in Ast 112 in '86. Hard to refute.

[Doramius]

You will never be able to fathom nothingness. If you even think of nothing, you're using something that exists. Anything that exists will not be able to understand nothingness, only absence of something that existed and currently doesn't, or has an idea of something that doesn't currently exist. That proves existence. The major question is where did the existence of matter come from, and how does certain matter gain intelligence. Now if you believe that we are matter material with intelligence, what would make it hard to believe that other matters of intelligence are also in existence. Wether the matter is organized or not, the existence is still there. Because we have the intelligence to know the matter is still there, again, therefore there is other matter that has the potential intelligence to know we exist. Thus gives feesability that there is other intelligent beings out there and know where we live.

Hon, get me my shotgun!

[housepig]

Treebeard, I'm with you. It's obvious to me that this universe and everything in it was designed. Therefore, there must be a designer.

the pattern-seeking man will find patterns anywhere, whether they exist or not.

To follow your argument, I have a tree in my front yard - so it must have been planted, it couldn't have appeared there by random chance.

[Capmaster]

You will never be able to fathom nothingness. If you even think of nothing, you're using something that exists. Anything that exists will not be able to understand nothingness, only absence of something that existed and currently doesn't, or has an idea of something that doesn't currently exist. That proves existence. The major question is where did the existence of matter come from, and how does certain matter gain intelligence. Now if you believe that we are matter material with intelligence, what would make it hard to believe that other matters of intelligence are also in existence. Wether the matter is organized or not, the existence is still there. Because we have the intelligence to know the matter is still there, again, therefore there is other matter that has the potential intelligence to know we exist. Thus gives feesability that there is other intelligent beings out there and know where we live.

Hon, get me my shotgun!

WTF Doramius?

[tekkieman]

You will never be able to fathom nothingness. If you even think of nothing, you're using something that exists. Anything that exists will not be able to understand nothingness, only absence of something that existed and currently doesn't, or has an idea of something that doesn't currently exist. That proves existence. The major question is where did the existence of matter come from, and how does certain matter gain intelligence. Now if you believe that we are matter material with intelligence, what would make it hard to believe that other matters of intelligence are also in existence. Wether the matter is organized or not, the existence is still there. Because we have the intelligence to know the matter is still there, again, therefore there is other matter that has the potential intelligence to know we exist. Thus gives feesability that there is other intelligent beings out there and know where we live.

To me, it doesn't really matter....

[gshelley61]

the pattern-seeking man will find patterns anywhere, whether they exist or not.

To follow your argument, I have a tree in my front yard - so it must have been planted, it couldn't have appeared there by random chance.

The tree was planted. Either by you, by someone else, by the breeze, by a bird shitting a seed out on to your yard...

Further, there is a DNA sequence inside the cells of the seed that tree grew from that caused it to mature into the type of tree that it is. I'm not looking for patterns. They are there, pure and simple. People way smarter than you and I have found and described patterns and processes everywhere in science and nature.

[Doramius]

Too much deep thinking for you Cap?

Here's my idiot's version -

If I hit the back of your head and you feel it, then there's life on other planets. If you continue to disagree, I'll keep hitting the back your head with progressively harder things until you understand.

Damn, I wish I could remember the name of the movie that came from. That was hilarious. Any help?

[Cobra]

Out of the millions of systems out there, there must be some that have been as fortunate as we have - just the right distance from the Sun and the right conditions to give life the spark it needs.

I think there are probably other beings thinking precisely what we are right now. Too bad we probably will never meet.

Cobra

[gitreel]

You will never be able to fathom nothingness. If you even think of nothing, you're using something that exists. Anything that exists will not be able to understand nothingness, only absence of something that existed and currently doesn't, or has an idea of something that doesn't currently exist. That proves existence. The major question is where did the existence of matter come from, and how does certain matter gain intelligence. Now if you believe that we are matter material with intelligence, what would make it hard to believe that other matters of intelligence are also in existence. Wether the matter is organized or not, the existence is still there. Because we have the intelligence to know the matter is still there, again, therefore there is other matter that has the potential intelligence to know we exist. Thus gives feesability that there is other intelligent beings out there and know where we live.

Hon, get me my shotgun!

Now that we have gotten that out of the way, wth.

Is that quantum physics?

[Capmaster]

That's Doramius' take on the theory of relativity. I'm impressed Doramius. That's deep. I don't know what the **** you said, but impressive nonetheless

I've been so tired today you could have posted the Barney song's lyrics and I'd think it was deep. We've been having a yo-yo barometer here with the rainy season and when that happens my sleep suffers. That and the compressor hum all night :P I've been running on 2 hours' worth of sleep today. I should sleep like the dead tonight

[Ripper2860]

My ex-wife is living proof that extraterrestrials do exist !!

[housepig]

The tree was planted. Either by you, by someone else, by the breeze, by a bird shitting a seed out on to your yard...

at what point along that axis of possibilty does it go from "intentional" to "random"?

generally, when someone refers to planting a tree, they mean a human being intentionally dug a hole and put a seed, or an immature tree, in the hole.

the breeze doesn't imply intention. neither does birdshit.

[indolikaa]

Without question, I believe life exists beyond planet Earth.

[gitreel]

That's Doramius' take on the theory of relativity. I'm impressed Doramius. That's deep. I don't know what the **** you said, but impressive nonetheless

I've been so tired today you could have posted the Barney song's lyrics and I'd think it was deep. We've been having a yo-yo barometer here with the rainy season and when that happens my sleep suffers. That and the compressor hum all night :P I've been running on 2 hours' worth of sleep today. I should sleep like the dead tonight

You need some sleep. You will probably hibernate.

[gshelley61]

the breeze doesn't imply intention. neither does birdshit.

No, not intentional by a human being. But certainly intentional as part of how the ecosystem (and the one who created it) gets the job of planting trees done. I mean, who/what plants more trees... humans - or the natural systems in place before we ever existed?

There is order and purpose in the natural world. Even what appears to be chaotic and unplanned on the surface (fires, eruptions, catastrophic weather, etc.) turns out to be something useful or needed.

[Capmaster]

That's Doramius' take on the theory of relativity. I'm impressed Doramius. That's deep. I don't know what the **** you said, but impressive nonetheless

I've been so tired today you could have posted the Barney song's lyrics and I'd think it was deep. We've been having a yo-yo barometer here with the rainy season and when that happens my sleep suffers. That and the compressor hum all night :P I've been running on 2 hours' worth of sleep today. I should sleep like the dead tonight

You need some sleep. You will probably hibernate.

Luckily tomorrow telecommute. I can emulate some of the older farts at work who are "RIP" (Retired-In-Place) maybe a nice nap after lunch ... God, do I sound old or what?

[Jester700]

Here's my 2 cents...

We are on a tiny planet orbiting a tiny sun in a remote part of a tiny galaxy - one of trillions. You gotta have lotsa balls and little imagination to figure WE are the sole reason for ALL THAT'S OUT THERE.

The track record for most organized religions being correct about how the world & universe works has been abysmal so far. I'm not about to take their word for the stuff that science hasn't figured out yet; I'll wait for the ideas of Hawking's successors...

[indolikaa]

There is order and purpose in the natural world. Even what appears to be chaotic and unplanned on the surface (fires, eruptions, catastrophic weather, etc.) turns out to be something useful or needed.

I'd agree with that...

[gitreel]

That's Doramius' take on the theory of relativity. I'm impressed Doramius. That's deep. I don't know what the **** you said, but impressive nonetheless

I've been so tired today you could have posted the Barney song's lyrics and I'd think it was deep. We've been having a yo-yo barometer here with the rainy season and when that happens my sleep suffers. That and the compressor hum all night :P I've been running on 2 hours' worth of sleep today. I should sleep like the dead tonight

You need some sleep. You will probably hibernate.

Luckily tomorrow telecommute. I can emulate some of the older farts at work who are "RIP" (Retired-In-Place) maybe a nice nap after lunch ... God, do I sound old or what?

Don't worry, I say that I need a nap every now and then as well.