tmpgenc plus and aspect ratio question

[gilbates]

i can use tmpgenc okish guys but i get a bit confused with the aspect ratio settings

do u select the aspect ratio of the file your working with or not , for instance i was working with a widescreen file , so selected 16:9 pal but when played back the finished file on a dvd player was tall and thin , messing with the dvd and tv settings didnt correct it , it still looked tall and thin , so should i select 1:1 vga or just 4:3 pal or maybe 4:3 pal (704 X 576) ?

[dafreak]

you want to make sure your output ar is 16:9.

you also want to select 16:9 pal for your source although i think for most avi's, it doesn't really matter, you can just leave it as 1:1.
what's more important on the advanced tab is the video arrange method.
for widescreen avi's, you can either use fullscreen (keep aspect ratio) or use center (custom) and manually enter the size of the original avi.

[gilbates]

cheers m8 , sorry but i didnt mention what type of file it is , its 3ivx not avi , i have all the proper codecs installed for playback and usage , but i just cant seem to make it look right on the tv , i tried just plane old 4:3 pal but that didnt work either

when played back on the pc its edge to edge and about half the screen in height and looks great but when transfered its just to tall

i`m missing a piece of the pie here somewhere i must have to change it somewhere and after trying the 16:9 and 4:3 setings in aspect ration with no success , it must be somewhere else , i just dont no where yet ?

[gilbates]

here are the details from the file , it may help to resolve the conversion to widescreen properly

MPEG 4 audio, stereo 44100 Hz 3ivx D4 4.5, 1026 x 416, data rate 211.9 K bytes/sec

[monzie]

AFAIK avi's are always 1:1 (vga)....so thats the SOURCE DAR (derived aspect ratio)...due to pc PIXELS being 'square'.

You need to set your TMPG wizard (first screen) to PAL 16:9 (thats the OUTPUT DAR.....derived aspect ratio (again).......BUT this time the pixels are stretched horizontaly on playback to fill the SPACE of 1024 pixels although there are only 720 real pixels....(well thats how I comprehend it anyway).

In your case the avi has a true AR (simple apsect ratio) of 1026/416=2.466.

So do a bit of simple maths 1024 (the 'space' taken up by 720 horizontal pixels when encoded with the 16:9 flag) divided by 2.466 (your AR) = 416 VERTICAL (which lucky for you it already is). So to get a proper encoding you need to add 80 T & B borders (576-416=160 divide by 2=80 T & B) or the picture will get stretched VERTICALLY making everything look long and thin (sound familiar?).

Did you add T & B borders..and if so how? Frameserving is probably the easiest method of correct encoding.

The thing with encoding is you have to do the calculations to figure out the T & B borders (ignore HORIZONTAL resolutions just work from the vertical at all times..unless you want to crop the horizontal to increase the vertical to reduce the borders..but if you have a widescreen TV and any half decent DVD player you can always zoom up with the hardware anyway and save yourself the effort).

Sorry if it all sounds complicated.

[gilbates]

thanks for that m8 , i`m still trying to get my head around it though as i have never frame served nor calculated T and B borders before, i`m willing to try if it gives the best results but one thing has me confused which is probably blatantly odvious to you is where did you get the 576 from in your calculations

hehe , once i have sussed out the calcs i then have to fig out how to add the T and B borders , i`m sure a poke around in vdub will turn up something , eventually it will all fall into place but for now i`m stumbling and lurching and getting a little confused

anyway where did the 576 come from

HOLD ON duh just got brain goin again 720x576 DVD pal standard

ok head down again , gona try and do some calcs on another file

wish me luck

[monzie]

Sorry for presuming that you already know.......

But, (as you have already figured out) PAL DVD's are always 576 Vertical

and

NTSC DVD's are always 480 Vertical.

Both are the same as the VIEWABLE scan lines (vertical res) of any TV using their respective TV format.

As I said earlier ignore HORIZONTAL resolutions and just work from the vertical at all times (unless you WANT to crop the horizontal....usually for viewing on standard 4:3 TV's).

A few quick caculations and the reasons for being might be considered worthwhile.

So first off lets set this is stone:

RULE 1) DVD's AND TV's ALWAYS CALCULATE EVERYTHING FROM THEIR SCAN LINES (WHICH IN PC LANGUAGE MEANS THEIR VERTICAL RESOLUTION) so EITHER 576v for PAL or 480v for NTSC (v = vertical resoltution).

....and we will also set this in stone:

RULE 2) MPEG2 HORIZONTAL RESOLUTIONS CAN BE EITHER ENCODED AT 4:3 OR 16:9 FORMAT which changes the 'length' of a TV pixel (in the horizonatal plane).... which requires this explanation as derived from the FIRST RULE (above).....

4:3 RATIO....4=Horizontal and 3= the VERTICAL (obviously)...so knowing that '3' (in 4:3) is 576 (for the scan lines... aka vertical res) divide 576 by 3 (=192) and multiply by 4 (192 X 4) = 768 HORIZONTAL

For NTSC this would be 480 divide by 3 (=160) multiply by 4 =640 HORIZONTAL.

NOTE. As you can see neither PAL or NTSC tie up to the 720 horizontal standard of PAL or NTSC DVD encoding due to the 4:3 flag (for PAL they are stretched, and for NTSC they are squished...remember DVD standard is 720)...the encoding is always at 720 (DVD standard) but the pixels TAKE UP THE 'SPACE' OF EITHER 768h (pal) or 640h (ntsc).



Now lets try 16:9 and anything greater (aka anamophic) playback and DVD encoding:

We know '9' (from 16:9) is 576 (PAL) so 576 divide by 9 (=64) multiply by 16 = 1024h

For NTSC=852h

Again both use ONLY 720 pixels (the DVD standard) but both strectch these pixels to TAKE UP THE SPACE of either 1024 or 852.

SO knowing these facts:

MPEG2/DVD encodings:
PAL @ 4:3= 768(DAR) X576
PAL @ 16:9 = 1024(DAR) X 576

NTSC @ 4:3 = 640(DAR) X 480
NTSC @ 16:9 = 852(DAR) X 480

DAR is DERIVED ASPECT RATIO (on playback as the pixels are stretchable).

FROM all this can quickly work out your T & B borders (from any given AVI)....now that you know the DAR.

So get an avi and finds its AR (Aspect Ratio)....divide your encoding flags HORIZONTAL resolution (4:3 or 16:9) by the avi's AR (round up/down the answer to the nearest number divisable to 16) and subtrcact 576 (or 480) from the answer..then didvide by 2 for T & B.

[gilbates]

Gobsmacked

Monzie m8 , the time and effort you have taken to explain this is very much appreciated , i completed my first frame serve last night with great success , only achievable with your help

many thanks friend , i`m also printing it out and keeping it on my pin board for future calcs , invaluable advice

if the mods read this thread it should definately be a sticky

Monzie m8 , may all your camels b flealess

Thanks again , gilbates

[gilbates]

not forgeting dafreak who also submited help , many thanks m8

your camels should also b well groomed and flealess

[gilbates]

err...... guys i`m kinda stuck again

as stated my monzie , frameserving is the best way to convert a film , and i have done so with an avi , but after trying and reading and trying and reading i`m still stuck

my original file which is a 3ivx .MOV file cannot b opened in vdub to frameserve to tmpgenc , ok ya say convert to avi with EO and then F/s , trouble is EO hangs after about 13 mins and even IF it were to work how long would it take and how big would be the resultant avi be

i can convert to avi with tmpgenc but that says about 15 Hrs ? excessive to say the least

this is taking for ever for me to sort guys , would someone pull up a pew and give this thick ed a hand again

or should i throw in the towl

[monzie]

have you downloaded the 3ivx codec?.... VDub and vdubmod requires the full codec to PROCESS and not just a filter like FFDSHOW.

http://www.3ivx.com/

[gilbates]

ok guys

converted the .mov to avi , preserving the anamorphic sizing , loaded into vdub to frameserve to tmpgenc all still ok

my latest and newest headache is this , the preview window in tmpgenc shows the output from vdub as a slanted and black and white version of the colourful and anamorphic version in vdub ?

how is this corrected

the original file plays and looks right on any avi player on the pc and looks right in vdub , why has it changed on entering tmpgenc

and i have tried changing the AR in tmpgenc , also unlocked tmpgenc and messed about in there a little still to no avail