How to create two-state buttons? (DVD-lab)

[Edocecrous]

Hi!

There must be a way of creating two-state buttons...
I DO NOT want the button image overlayed with ANY color, i want the button appear only when selected.

So far i did this:
In DVDlab, i used a PNG image as a button.
Linked it to the movie, so it's a valid button now.
The button has no shadow, no effects.
Color map is left on default.
Button visibility is set to Invisible Normal.

So now if button is not selected, it is not visible. When selected, the button's stupid color map (standard purple stuff) is visible, but the button under it is not.
I want the Button to be visible, no highliting/color map stuff...

So my problem is:
When the button is set to 'Invisible Normal', it doesn't display the button when selected.
I tried 'Invisible Selected', and it doesn't disappear when selected, making these features useless.

It might be a DVDlab bug? It clearly doesn't do what it supposed to be... (i've tried only simulation mode)

Any help appreciated.
THX,
Edo

[petar]

It's not a bug but more of a confusing design on the part of DVD-Lab.

Button visibility set to "invisible normal" means the button is not included in the background and is only part of the subpicture. The subpicture is limited to 4 colours (well, 3 really because the 4th one is almost always set to fully transparent so that you can see the background, hence DVD-Lab only gives you 3 colours for the subpicture). So when you select the button you see the subpicture (the standard purple stuff, as you mentioned).

Even though the subpicture can have up to 4 colours as per the DVD standard, as far as I know, DVD-Lab limits you to 1 colour per button (you can have 3 colours in the subpicture but not for the same button). If 1 colour is enough, then change the purple to whatever you want. If not, then you need to use switched menus (explained on the DVD-Lab web site).

[Edocecrous]

Thanks very much...

So basically, on a single menu, it is not possible to create two-state buttons, and to create the effect of two state buttons, we need to use multiple menus. Clever.

What i want to do, is have a small figure before the menu points, and moving up-down in the menu causes this figure to move up-down accordingly.

However, while the explanation on the DVDlab site shows the basic idea behind this, for my purposes it's over complicated, since you need only 1 real button on each menu, (the other two can be 'fake' not linked), this way the Force Select option is not necessary, and it makes the process much simpler.

I might even place the selection item (small figure) on the background, and create 3 backgrounds, with only the selection item being at a different place...

Thanks again for your help!
Edocecrous

[guns1inger]

It is not DVD Lab's fault, but rather a limitation of the DVD spec. If DVD Lab is guilty of anything, it is that it forces you to do it the proper way, rather than holding you hand or using a wizard to hide the complexity. If you want an easy solution DVD Lab ain't it.

Let us know how your idea pans out though - it sounds interesting.

[petar]

Actually one important problem I see with DVD-Lab is that it tries to offer you as much flexibility as possible, which is great for an advanced user, but it also tries to offer it in a simple and easy to use interface in order to attract not-so-advanced users and it can get confusing.

The problem Edocecrous encountered is a good example. Putting an option that a button can be "invisible normal" but visible when selected will naturally lead an average user to thinking - "I can create my fancy all colourful button which will only show up when selected".

I think DVD-Lab may be stuck in-between. "Interface for dummies" which is not needed for advanced users and, on the other hand, too complicated for an average user to undestand all its options, despite of the simple interface (or in this case, "thanks" to its simple interface).

[Edocecrous]

Ok, here's the menu i came up finally (just a test one of course)...
I describe it from the beginning, it might help out someone...

First i got a picture (it was a desktop background picture):


That's the top left one. I've spent some time and took out Jack from the picture (some redrawing, came out ok...), then i resized it to 700x525, and made a 800x600 (canvas) picture from it, that's the top right one.
I created an object from jack (a button), transparent background, PNG format.
In DVDlab, i created the first menu, 3 text labels and 3 jack buttons. That's the bottom picture.

Then i locked the 6 objects, and duplicated the menu twice to get 3 identical menus. I deleted the extra jacks from the menus as follows:
Menu 1 -> Jack 2, Jack 3
Menu 2 -> Jack 1, Jack 3
Menu 3 -> Jack 1, Jack 2
Like this:




Then i set the links:
Menu 1:
Text 1: Linked to movie 1,
Text 2: Linked to Menu 2, Auto Action enabled,
Text 3: is not a button, has no links
Menu 2:
Text 1: Linked to Menu 1, Auto Action enabled,
Text 2: Linked to movie 2,
Text 3: Linked to Menu 3, Auto Action enabled,
Menu 3:
Text 1: is not a button, has no links
Text 2: Linked to Menu 2, Auto Action enabled,
Text 3: Linked to movie 3,

Also, i turned off Auto Route, and made routes manually:
Menu 1: Text 1 down only to Text 2,
Menu 2: Text 2 up to Text 1 and down to Text 2,
Menu 3: Text 3 up only to Text 2.

Plus we need to set the first buttons, as it is visible from the menu pictures:
Menu 1: Text 1
Menu 2: Text 2
Menu 3: Text 3

The links:


One more thing, i set the text buttons selected color map all the way to the left (transparent), so the text will not change, just jack moves up-down.

I hope it will be usefull for someone.

Edocecrous







[/img]

[K4S3RYN]

That could be very handy Edocecrous.. i had been trying to do the same sort of thing a while back but couldn't get the routing/forced selections going as i wanted.. will review ur method on my project and see how it goes.. thanks!

[andkiich]

So, you just did a "switched" menu.

[Edocecrous]

Yes i did.

And as you can see, it already helped someone, so i don't feel bad about taking up so much forum space...

Edocecrous

[burnman99]

hey yall, does DVDLAB give you a XML file for it's menus and the like? I am trying to do a switched menu in DVDAuthorGUI which will involve editing the XML. I actually haave a copy of DVDLAB but haven't used it in a good while.

Thanks in advance,

Rog

[Edocecrous]

No, DVDlab has a nice menu editor, where you can link the buttons/menus as you wish, and use regular picture files to do that.

What do you mean by XML file? XML is a descriptor language, and doesn't exist without a context. Did you ment an enhanced HTML page?
I didn't used DVDAuthorGUI, since i found that DVDlab is prety stabil...

Edo

[K4S3RYN]

Right.. think i have this going now. However.. and this is what put me off it before i think.. i have a song on this menu.. so is there any way of stopping that restarting as you cycle thru the selections?

[guns1inger]

No. I have several commercial discs that do something similar, and all have an issue with audio breaks. Maybe try using sound effects instead of music once you are into the menu proper ?

[K4S3RYN]

thing is.. i thought i'd seen commerial dvds with fancy buttons where the sound kept continuous as u changed selections.. or is it only possible with plain overlays then?

[K4S3RYN]

Another thing relating to this type of menu is, how did u find it working? It's fine on the pc but my dvd player gets quite messed up on it..

[K4S3RYN]

Ignore the last post.. ive seen what my problem is. Whenever i made the right text 'first button' for some reason it automatically got shunted behind the background and therefore invisible... was able to raise it without probs tho.

[Edocecrous]

Finally i made the switched menus with my original idea, where the Jack marking the current selection is not a PNG aplied at authoring, but rather on the background image. (i've also put a small preview picture of the actual episode to the corner.)

The whole point to this was to get around the annoying 'overlapping buttons' error, since this way you can have many menupoints and a rather large selection item.

Here are the background images used for the 4 menus:


An here is the template one:

I set this as background in the menu first, so i can position the menu text right. When that's done, i duplicate the menu, change the backgrounds and set up the links, first buttons, and auto actions.

Hope it helps someone.
Edocecrous

ps.VDlab is really picky about the format and type of the menu music, it dies out with compile error sometimes. (however, DVDlab-pro has no such problems)[/img]

[petar]

Cool background Edocecrous

Just a note that may make things easier for you when doing switched menus. Since the concept of switched menus is for the background (i.e. the whole menu) to change instead of just the button highlights, you can make any objects you want into buttons (even dummy ones, just make them invisible and place them anywhere you want). That way you won't have problems with overlapping buttons.

[Edocecrous]

Thanks.

You are right, if it has no link, it can overlap. Anyway, the main reason for me to work out the 'moving' parts of the menu separate is the fact that Photoshop gives a lot more tools to make it right.

Actually, i could make the menu items (Chapter ...) as part of the BG in PS too, and use 'hidden' buttons to do the same control linking.
The only reason why i didn't is to make the DVD usable on a PC player too, without playing around and aligning 'hidden' button.

If i had a RW drive, i would play around more with these... lol.

THX,
Edocecrous