Changing FPS (What tools?)

[rorschach]

I asked this question over the FFMPEGX General Discussions but I'm still puzzled.

I want to take a file that's NTSC Film (23.97 fps) and convert it up to 29.97 fps so that I can port into DVDSP, which only accepts that and 25 (PAL) fps.

What tools/procedure do I take to doing this on the Mac? AFAIK, it can only be done on the PC with TMPGEnc (astonishing!)

Everything I have keeps files at the same frame rate as the source. Now, MissingMPEGTools has such a capability for the video portion, but how can I also adjust this for the audio portion so that later it can be multiplexed by DVDSP and kept in synch? I sense that when you change the frame rate for video, naturally the audio must also be adjusted. I get much better quality after such a conversion.

Thanks.

[AntnyMD]

If your file is MPEG2 video at film rate, you just need to run it through PulldownX so that it adds pulldown flags into the video stream. After that, DVDSP will see the file as having an acceptable frame rate.

[rorschach]

Whoops. I neglected to explain this is a widescreen AVI which, after Divx Doctoring, I make as a MOV and then after that, I want to take a NTSC Film and make it true 29.97fps.

But let me really look at PulldownX.

[AntnyMD]

PulldownX only works on MPEG2 video. In order to author this file as a DVD you'll have to get it converted to MPEG2. I'm assuming you have DVDSP2 so you should also have Compressor. Compressor will correct the framerate. If your copy of DVDSP2 was "missing" some components, or you're working with an older version of DVDSP2, you will have to use another software encoder to make your conversion.[/img]

[rorschach]

Astonishing. It doesn't work!

I ran a 3 min clip of my program (AVI converted as "Self Contained") through Compressor splitting it into m2v (now MPEG-2) and AIFF. I remuxed the file (now MPEG-2) but Movie Info still says the file frame rate is 23.98fps.

With PulldownX, I asked to change framerate (not enabling "Disable Pulldown Insertion" and Terminal tells me:


- Setting framerate to: 29.97 fps
- Enabling 2:3 pulldown

File is not an MPEG Video Stream

It also doesn't work if I DO click on "Disable Pulldown Insertion." Hmmmm....

[DeadLily]

Actually, it's my experience that DVDSP *will* accept an m2v that's encoded at 23.97, as long as it's got the pulldown flag encoded with it. (I make these in Bitvice.) A true conversion to 29.97 isn't really necessary. The pulldown flag sort of tricks DVDSP into thinking a 23.97 m2v is 29.97.

[AntnyMD]

Astonishing. It doesn't work!

I ran a 3 min clip of my program (AVI converted as "Self Contained") through Compressor splitting it into m2v (now MPEG-2) and AIFF. I remuxed the file (now MPEG-2) but Movie Info still says the file frame rate is 23.98fps.

With PulldownX, I asked to change framerate (not enabling "Disable Pulldown Insertion" and Terminal tells me:


- Setting framerate to: 29.97 fps
- Enabling 2:3 pulldown

File is not an MPEG Video Stream

It also doesn't work if I DO click on "Disable Pulldown Insertion." Hmmmm....

I recommend you do this test again ... However, this time in Compressor, use one of the MPEG-2 templates, this time goiong into the settings for the template, then clicking Encoder, then Quality, and making sure NTSC is selected... I think they all default to "Automatic" which is probably why your frame rate remained unchanged from the source.

[sdm]

its true that dvdsp will accept 23.98 fps as long as you have pulldown flags.
Changing the framerate is asking for trouble - like jerky video.

ffmpegX can add pulldown flags to an mpeg2 video file after encoding if necessary. Its in the tools tab.

--sdm

[TugBoat]

From my experience, the best method is to take that doctored AVI and encode it to 29.97 in QT or ffmpegX....before you do anything else. This will solve most of the later problems. Re-encoding should be the last resort but sometimes it's necessary. I would use three times the original bitrate and do any other aspect changes before moving on to MPEG2. Been there done that

[rorschach]

Creating a new Compressor Preset and choosing NTSC instead of Automatic worked. I did get what I wanted. But the resulting video, once muxed, was not that great. I'm going to try it again but using the higher bitrate of the 60min preset.

Thanks for the heads-up tutorial!

[AntnyMD]

Sometimes I'm very helpful.

[preston182]

Or, you can upgrade to DVDSP 3.0 and simply drag and drop your 23.97 fps .avi files and it will encode it when you decide to burn. Works great!!
I can't believe it imported my Divx and Xvid movies, this is awesome.

[rorschach]

amazing that 3.0 can do that. But will that accurately convey the final disk size? Usually I do the converting/processing first and then drop it into 2.0 and I get what I believe is an accurate reading of what the final disk size is. AVI, being an compressed audio stream, needs to decompress first and then... well, you know.

BTW, using Compressor to convert 23.98 to 29.97 NTSC as I had desired, I was astonished it would have needed about 11 hours to render whereas on the slower PC that I also have, I graded the encoding and same file only requires 7 hours...I decided I wanted the "faster" encoding so it went to the PC... and the quality is Just Fine.

Once I encoded a 90 min movie in Compressor and that took 24 hours in High Quality mode. Wow.

[preston182]

Yes, DVDSP 3.0 will convey the actual encoded disc space before you burn, so you know exactly how much space you have left.

[TugBoat]

Or, you can upgrade to DVDSP 3.0 and simply drag and drop your 23.97 fps .avi files and it will encode it when you decide to burn. Works great!!
I can't believe it imported my Divx and Xvid movies, this is awesome.

Am I missing something? My DVDSP2 will do everything you've mentioned. Import Dvix, Xvid, estimate encoded file size, etc. My only beef is that the encoded file size is computed using PCM audio. I always use AC3. I never really use that feature though, I usually just use QT for MPG2 so I can include a mask or configure my own letterbox size by changing the vertical pixel height of the Widescreen AVI while doing the MPG2 encode 8)

Another beef, not really confined to SP, is that it fails to recognize what other programs insist is MPG1. It seems that Apple is extremely picky about what it considers to be MPG1, and SP wants to re-encode anything it doesn't recognize as MPG1 or 2. The Apple MPG1 thing is a whole different thread

[rorschach]

I started this thread about 5 months ago (!) and I've just only now succeeded in what I wanted to do. And that was take an AVI that was NTSC Film (23.97fps) and make it NTSC (29.97 fps) and into DVDSP (which DOESN'T accept straight NTSC Film (it thinks the file is an audio file!)

Well, I've finally succeeded, and using FFMPEGX but I had to understand that I needed an XViD codec installed into the Quicktime Plug-ins folder.

And in the FFMPEGX menus I chose, for example, DVD low-bitrate, aka half D-1 (which defaults to NTSC Film rate) but all I had to do was simply choose NTSC (29.97 fps) without toggling Set 3:2 or Undo 3:2 and make sure the bitrate 2300 remained chosen and hit Encode. The output is synched and looks good. Almost SVCD-like in results.

I also did this with a PAL file and it converted to 29.97 fps just fine!

Hope this helps others out there!

[sdm]

rorschach,
I'm glad you got what you wanted.
I still think you should have left your framerate at 23.97fps.
You could have used ffmpegX to encode to mpeg2 at that rate.
If you have dvdsp2, you would need to add pulldown in ffmpegx.
If you have dvdsp3, it would do that for you.

In any case, you made it work - thats cool.

-- sdm