Which Audio Track To Keep?

[leebo]

I use DVDShrink to make back up copies.
I do not have a Dolby 5.whatever receiver, just Dolby surround. However, I often play my backups at familys homes, and they DO have 5.whatever sound.

I have been keeping both tracks so far, because I thought I needed the 2 channel for my own system. But now I'm wondering: do most DVD players (in the US) play the 5.1 out of the analogue outputs as 2 channel sound? If so I can ditch the 2 channel from now on to save room.

I'm sure one day I'll get a 5.whatever receiver, but right now my older receiver works fine.

[ViRaL1]

I'd keep the 5-channel and drop the 2-channel. If I'm not mistaken you don't NEED a 5.1 system to get sound from 5.1 movies, you just can't take full advantage. I don't think you'll see any noticeable difference on your 2-channel system one way or the other, and it will be a definite improvement on any 5-channel system. Just remember that it will more than likely come at the expense of greater compression. With Starsky and Hutch for example, 2-channel is 141MB, 5.1 is 300MB. If it's just for you and you don't see the need for surround for a particular film, you might choose 2-channel, but I'd opt for 5.1 most of the time.

[leebo]

So whats the 2 channel track for then?

[ViRaL1]

Some say that 2-channel audio sounds better on a 2-channel system than 5.1 does. There is also the possibility (most times you won't come across this) that some things that would normally be output on the 2 main channels may only come out in the surround channels and you'll miss it (doubtful). I've also heard that it makes a difference regarding the volume levels of speech in some movies (i.e. speech spread across all 5 channels but you only hear 2 of them). If your DVD player has standard 2-channel RCA audio outputs, it SHOULD downmix the audio so you don't miss anything, but then again I'm not an audio expert. However if you're using the 5.1 channel RCA outputs and only plugging left and right into your TV, there's a good chance you MIGHT miss something. I remember seeing a similar topic not too long ago, but I can't remember which forum.

[cor1]

If the DVD producer encoded separate audio tracks for stereo and for 5.1 it would be safe to assume that the 2 sound tracks are sufficiently different to warrant it.

Proper surround effects do not simply consist of encoding a "ka-boom" on the rear-left channel a scream on the front right and an evil laugh on the centre one (for example). In fact most of the sound "events" are present in more than one channel but at different levels (and on smartly done tracks also with time delay from one channel to another).

So if you only use the left & right outputs of a 5.1 you WILL lose stuff.
If you use the stereo output of a DVD player you will not technically loose anything because of down-mixing BUT down-mixing does not always get the biases right. Front left & right channels seem to get louder relative to the rest of the channels. And speech is usually the one to suffer as it is mostly encoded on the front centre.

I am in no way an expert in the technical aspects of this but from my own experience, on SOME DVD's, the stereo track sounds better on my TV than the 5.1 track (my TV is just stereo).

So what I do is keep 2.0 for my backups as I usually use the TV. If I want to use the projector and the surround system I just play the original.

Best thing you could do is choose a DVD with great sound and watch it on your 2.0 system with the stereo track. Then watch it with the 5.1 track. If you don't hear any difference then indeed you should keep the 5.1 as ViRal1 advises as you may get a 5.1 receiver in the future.

[Gurm]

Almost all DVD players nowadays will output the 5.1 track as downmixed Stereo (meaning ALL 5 channels get mixed in, you don't lose anything) over the red/white plugs.

However...

1. The Stereo mix done by professionals is, almost always, SLIGHTLY better than the Stereo mix done on-the-fly by your DVD player. How much better? Not better enough to make me (or you, in my opinion) keep it.

2. Speech levels ARE better in the professional stereo mix, because in the 5.1 mix speech is either mixed to only come out of the speaker that the 'actor' is 'closest' to, or is mixed to primarily come out of the center channel - and such mixing can be poorly downmixed by the DVD player hardware.

3. SOME players have issues with putting 5.1 over stereo, but most don't. Test yours.

4. There is no number 4.

- Gurm

[MackemX]

keep the 2 channel for now and then when you get DL make another backup with both when you also get a newer player with 5.1

most of what cor1 mentions is true as downmixing 5.1 does lower the sound levels and sounds inferior to my ears (though they may differ from others ). You will probably find the some sounds are drowned out by others also when you turn it up to compensate. so technically you don't lose anything though, you just can't hear it :lol

@Gurm's #4

[Gurm]

Oh yeah. You ARE actually in possession of the original, right? RIGHT? (*grin*)

[MackemX]

Oh yeah. You ARE actually in possession of the original, right? RIGHT? (*grin*)

that for me? or is it a late addition to your earlier post?

[Gurm]

Response to what you said. Of COURSE if they OWN the original (which they should, right? RIGHT?) then they can just do a stereo rip now and a 5.1 rip later. LOL.

- Gurm

[MackemX]

lol., now it makes sense and I know what you mean

I very much doubt it in this case but sometimes you can see the 'blockbuster' or 'borrowed from a mate' backuppers a mile off

p.s. of course leebo, don't take this personally

[garryheather]

The 2 channel soundtrack could also be something like a cast or director's commentary - and only you can decide whether or not it's worth keeping that...

[ViRaL1]

I believe he's speaking strictly about the normal audio track, not commentary. Hopefully he checks before he chooses which track to burn.

[leebo]

When you use Shrink, it actually lists the commentary track as a commentary track, so thats not an issue.

However, you guys have now got me wondering about something else:
I have always had a problem with the vocal part of movie soundtracks. Always too low compared to music and effects. Now I'm wondering if my players are all set to play the 5.1 mix out through the stereo outputs and ignore the 2 channel track. Maybe it's possible if I can set them to play the 2 channel track and ignore the 5.1, the dialogue will be better.

I'll have to check this out.

P.S. I never rent at Blockbuster!

[Gurm]

More and more movies don't even HAVE a two-channel track! I normally leave my Stereo in "stereo" mode, so-as to keep the noise level down. And it's been frustrating that more and more movies have 5.1 or 6.1 only.

- Gurm

[leebo]

So how do I tell my players to ignore the 5.1 mix and use the stereo mix?
Right now I think I have them set to downmix the 5.1.

It's not obvious to me how to tell them to ignore the 5.1. I've gone into the players set-up, but am not sure what it might be labeled as.

[ViRaL1]

I don't believe the player chooses on its own. You choose it on the DVD, usually under languages. If you choose 5.1 on the DVD but use the stereo outputs on your DVD player it will downmix to 2 channel. If you choose 2 channel on the DVD there is no downmixing. But you have to have both tracks on the DVD to be able to choose.

[madmoose]

P.S. I never rent at Blockbuster!

Yeah me too yeah, only Netflix, right¿