Tech, studio giants team on new DVD locks

[djmattyb]

http://news.com.com/Tech%2C+studio+giants+team+on+new+DVD+locks/2100-1025_3-5269286.html?tag=cd.lede

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A group of high-profile technology companies and movie studios have joined forces to create a new copy protection standard for DVDs that could allow high-definition movies to be copied and used inside home networks.

Dubbed Advanced Access Content System, or AACS, the technology--which has yet to be created--would replace the anticopying technology that now protects ordinary DVDs, but it would be focused on next-generation, high-definition discs. As previously reported, the group behind the technology includes IBM, Intel, Warner Bros., Disney, Microsoft, Sony and Panasonic, as well as Toshiba.

Unlike today's technology, which allows movies to be played only in authorized DVD players, AACS would potentially allow people to store copies of a movie on home computers and watch it on other devices connected to a network--or even transfer it to a portable movie player.

"We're going to enable a bunch of new scenarios that add to things that you can do with discs in the home today," Michael Ripley, a senior staff engineer at Intel, said during a conference call. "We're building the foundation of something that will have broad support and will meet the broad needs of the affected industries in a way that has not necessarily happened in the past."

The AACS LA alliance (the LA stands for Licensing Authority) marks the culmination of years of tentative and often suspicious contact between the high-tech industry and Hollywood. Technology companies and content companies have developed content protection systems before--but rarely in concert.

The group has considerable work ahead before coming to market. Members said they have already begun working on the specifications and hope to release the technology this year. But earlier cross-industry content protection alliances, such as the Secure Digital Music Initiative, have broken down after hammering out initially promising agreements.

Nevertheless, analysts said the broad range of representation gave the alliance a more promising future than some of the initiatives that had come solely out of the technology industry.

"In this case, you've got two major gorillas from the home video business," GartnerG2 Vice President James Brancheau said. "That's really good news. I like the composition of this."


The content protection system on today's DVDs, called Content Scrambling System, or CSS, was broken in the late 1990s by hackers. A program that helped copy DVDs called DeCSS was subsequently distributed by Norwegian programmer Jon Johansen. Although U.S. courts ruled that it was illegal, other programs soon appeared, including the popular DVD X-Copy from 321 Studios.

Like CSS, the new AACS technology would be added to a disc as it is created and would require specific hardware or software to have the "key" to unlock the content on the disc. Individual keys could be retired by studios if they slip into the public domain, allowing the overall system to continue functioning, even if a key is broken or accidentally released, as was the case with CSS.

Unlike today's technology, the newly developed content protection system would also allow movie studios to specify exactly what could be done with the video. For example, a studio might allow people to store the content on a Media Center PC and stream it to TVs around the house, or to transfer it to a portable device, for example.

Members of the group said the new technology would be complementary to other digital rights management and content protection systems, such as Microsoft's Windows Media.

However, Microsoft has also touted the use of its own digital rights management technology to protect high-definition movie content. The company even took the uncharacteristic step of submitting its Windows Media video technology, called VC-9, to the DVD Forum to be approved as a standard, ultimately hoping that studios would use the video technology and the associated rights management tools to protect new DVDs.

The AACS LA coalition said it would have technology specifications and licenses ready later this year. It will provide licenses to all content, technology or consumers electronics companies.

All of the technology companies involved have separately made their own strides toward elements of content protection that could help create the vision of the "digital home" talked up by so many high-tech executives.

Studios have put some movies online that are protected by Microsoft's digital rights management, accessible through services such as Movielink and CinemaNow. Microsoft and Disney also struck a wide-ranging deal earlier this year that focused on content protection.

IBM has been working on its own home networking security system, called extensible content protection, or xCP, which it says will contribute to the new AACS specifications. Intel, working through the "5C" consortium of Hitachi, Intel, Matsushita, Sony and Toshiba, has helped develop a technology called Digital Transmission Content Protection, designed to protect, compress and move video between different points in a home network.

Both Warner and Sony have previously endorsed that technology.

[gitreel]

This will easily be cracked. You cannot compete with a world army of hackers.

[djmattyb]

Looks like they are going to try. The part about having multiple keyes lined up ready to go whenever one is cracked is a good idea. Unless someone figures out the pattern of the keyes! It will be interesting to see what happens.

[marvel2020]

What man makes, Man can break.

It's as simple as that.

[Suntan]

Unlike today's technology, the newly developed content protection system would also allow movie studios to specify exactly what could be done with the video. For example, a studio might allow people to store the content on a Media Center PC and stream it to TVs around the house, or to transfer it to a portable device, for example.

I still don't like the idea that the studios will decide what you can and cannot do with it once you have bought it. It is like GM equiping their cars with GPS that shuts the engine off if you try to drive across the America-Canada border because they don't want anyone to go to Canada. Then getting the government to say it is illiegal to tear the GPS unit out of the car...

-Suntan

[BJ_M]

Unlike today's technology, the newly developed content protection system would also allow movie studios to specify exactly what could be done with the video. For example, a studio might allow people to store the content on a Media Center PC and stream it to TVs around the house, or to transfer it to a portable device, for example.

I still don't like the idea that the studios will decide what you can and cannot do with it once you have bought it. It is like GM equiping their cars with GPS that shuts the engine off if you try to drive across the America-Canada border because they don't want anyone to go to Canada. Then getting the government to say it is illiegal to tear the GPS unit out of the car...

-Suntan

boy i have news for you ... GM cars with onstar and more than one antithief device can do that right now ..


the police have already used it

[Suntan]

@BJ_M

A few differences make a big deal. 1 the police do it, not GM at its whim. 2 its not illegal for me to rip all of that stuff out of my car.

-Suntan

[BJ_M]

@BJ_M

A few differences make a big deal. 1 the police do it, not GM at its whim. 2 its not illegal for me to rip all of that stuff out of my car.

-Suntan

wait until GM has a really bad 3rd quarter earnings...

disabling a million or so out of warranty cars so that they have to be brought back the dealership for repair (and order parts from GM) could bring in a nice extra $200,000,000 in gross

[BJ_M]

if they get caught -- just blame it on software error and fire some manager ..

[twinches]

Like CSS, the new AACS technology would be added to a disc as it is created and would require specific hardware or software to have the "key" to unlock the content on the disc.

So does this means everyone will need to buy a new DVD player with new hardware that can unlock the content to play it? I don't think people will like the idea of having to buy a new player to play these dvds. Unless they hold off to release the technology with the release of HD DVDs. since you will need a new player to play HD DVD's, they could roll out the technology then.

[aero]

So does this means everyone will need to buy a new DVD player with new hardware that can unlock the content to play it? I don't think people will like the idea of having to buy a new player to play these dvds. Unless they hold off to release the technology with the release of HD DVDs. since you will need a new player to play HD DVD's, they could roll out the technology then.

as it says in the article:
but it would be focused on next-generation, high-definition discs.

I believe you can't play these next gen disks as hd in your current player anyway. the arricle is elsewhere properly titled: "Media companies team to create HD-DVD content protection.

perhaps someone will clarify. this is about next gen 1080i players, and streaming, no?[/i]

[leebo]

Aero beat me to it (and was much nicer than I would have been).

[Capmaster]

If I close my eyes, I can almst hear the sound of 5 million hackers cracking their knuckles, anxiously awaiting the challenge. My prediction: The encryption codes will be leaked before the DVDs hit the market and the revisions to DVDShrink will be already made and waiting When will they ever learn ...they're not going to win that war

[tekkieman]

If I close my eyes, I can almst hear the sound of 5 million hackers cracking their knuckles, anxiously awaiting the challenge. My prediction: The encryption codes will be leaked before the DVDs hit the market and the revisions to DVDShrink will be already made and waiting When will they ever learn ...they're not going to win that war

Be careful, that's the last thing teegee said before he disappeared!

[Nilfennasion]

Honestly, you'd think they'd get a clue. Trying to force people to buy things or only buy things when it suits is always doomed to fail. They didn't learn it with Region Codes, and apparently they haven't learned with the CSS debacle. What is it going to take?

[Capmaster]

Honestly, you'd think they'd get a clue. Trying to force people to buy things or only buy things when it suits is always doomed to fail. They didn't learn it with Region Codes, and apparently they haven't learned with the CSS debacle. What is it going to take?

That's been going on with PC software since the early '80s when copy protection got more and more elaborate, and the tools to defeat it got more elaborate. Eventually the copy protection was costing some companies more than the software to produce They had laser holes (INT13), install counters, key discs with timers, key discs with hidden files, etc. They finally gave up and tried to put more teeth into the anti-piracy laws instead of trying to stop it altogether.

The software folks learned this, but the DVD producers are doomed to repeat history, it appears

[Nilfennasion]

I feel the fundamental problem is balance between protecting the rights of the consumer against those of the producer. I've said millions of times that when Jack Valenti is willing to reimburse me for all the discs that I've had destroyed by players that shouldn't have been on the market, I might be inclined to agree with his position. If I were told that I could make one backup to play in the car stereo or whatever, I'd be okay with that.

There's also the fact I mentioned that before the explosion of MP3, record labels that aren't part of the RIAA agenda didn't do a tenth as much business. While I am not endorsing piracy as free publicity, the animosity being shown towards the customer in place of the mass-piracy industry that has taken root in places like Southeast Asia is really startling.

[sssax2003]

What man makes, Man can break.

It's as simple as that.

Oh well......it might take them some time to realize they aint never gonna win the war..

[DereX888]

If they get smart - they'll release new, lets call it "HD-DVD" format, on a totally new media format.
Just a half centimeter diameter bigger discs, combined with lack of any computer-based players/writers would made it impossible to clone.
Marketing such new "HD-DVD" player device, if backward compatible with all current disc formats, would assure its success.

There is no problem to crack any software-based protection like keys etc, and I think they are not idiots to not realise that. But it is a viable problem to copy something without hardware, if you know what I mean (you still can't *clone* vinyl records, you can only copy it to other format). Thus keeping separate 'oversized' disc format for future "HD-DVD" movies, and separate 'standard' size discs for data storage (blue-ray) - without making any "HD-DVD" standalone players capable of reading 'blue-ray' discs - would create physical protection none of us would be able to break.

Im sure there would be a sleuth of 'after-market' HD-DVD drives for computers, and users would probably easily copy "HD-DVD" discs to their 'data recordable discs' (ie blue-ray) without any loss of quality, but still: lack of "HD-DVD" standalone players to playback such 'blue-ray' copies, would eliminate probably 90% of any legal/illegal movie copying.

If they do it this way - I want my money for consulting!

[vitualis]

So basically, the disc is just like a DVD...

When you buy the disc, it has:
(i) encrypted content
(ii) known encryption algorithm

When you buy a player/driver, it has:
(iii) working key that will decrypt the cyphertext.

Once again, this means you don't actually have to break the encryption. It doesn't matter HOW good it is as you already have everything needed to decrypt it (cyphertext + key + algorithm). All you have to do is get past the "obsfucation" layer which usually isn't that hard.

DRM on pre-recorded media does not work. Why won't these people learn?

The only real thing stopping "regular" people copying media is generally a new media format itself with no analogous recordable format (e.g., LP, CD-DA before CD-R drives, DVDs before DVD-R drives, etc.) And what's the harm with your regular consumer doing casual copying? It doesn't harm sales! AND backup is "fair use" (in the "spirit" of fair use even if not specifically in law).

The "real" pirates that do the harm or those large organisations which churn out pirated CDs/DVDs/CD-ROMs/etc. These puny DRM protection schemes is of no consequence to these people at all and do nothing to stop the real piracy going on.

Regards.

[DereX888]

vitualis wrote:

The only real thing stopping "regular" people copying media is generally a new media format itself with no analogous recordable format (e.g., LP, CD-DA before CD-R drives, DVDs before DVD-R drives, etc.)

I *won't* split with you any possible $ in the future over the same idea!

[BJ_M]

Which is Cheaper: Blu-Ray or HD DVD?
An "information battle" is under way between the Blu-ray Disk group and the companies supporting the high-density digital videodisk (HD DVD) as they jockey for position in the market for the next-generation play-only optical disk media using the blue-violet laser. The time is rapidly approaching when the US film industry and other major content providers will finally select the medium to be used to package high-definition TV (HDTV) imagery. According to industry observers, more and more content providers are saying they want to ship packages by as early as 2005.

The sales pitches in Hollywood are becoming more intense as a result, although the focus has shifted to media manufacturing cost. The "wish list," a document summarizing all the features the major Hollywood studios want in a next-generation optical disk, specifically states that manufacturing cost should be on a par with DVD-ROM. For both Blu-ray and HD DVD backers, this has become the top priority.

DVD-Level Prices Possible

At a presentation in Los Angeles at the end of March 2004, the Blu-ray Disk group resoundingly declared that Blu-ray Disk (BD) ROM volume production costs have been confirmed to be equivalent to those of DVD-ROM.

Volume production at costs close to those of DVD-ROM is almost here (see Fig). Sony Corp of Japan, for example, claims that it can pare manufacturing cost to only about 10% more than DVD-ROM media, assuming the same production scale of 10 million disks/month as is currently the case with DVD. When development was still young, Sony needed about 7 seconds (cycle time) to manufacture a single-sided, single-layer disk, but this has been reduced to about 5 seconds. The firm expects to further reduce this to about 4 seconds, the cycle time for existing DVD-ROM manufacturing, by the time volume production is started. A source at the firm commented that yield is "well above" the minimum acceptable value of 70% set for volume-production optical disks.

In the early stages of volume production, when production levels are low, the majority of production costs will be on equipment acquisition and mastering. Both of these items will need to be cut as far as possible.

Sony is moving to address these problems already. First, it plans to use production equipment from DVD-ROM manufacturing, including the injection molding presses used to make the disk substrates, and the film growth systems forming the reflecting films. The mastering process, which creates the stamper used to transfer microscopic pits during the molding process, is tapping a technology called phase transition mastering (PTM), which will deliver lower costs.

PTM was developed in-house by Sony. A Si substrate is coated with inorganic resist, and illuminated with blue-violet laser diode light through an object lens with a high numerical aperture (NA) of 0.95. This light cuts the pit pattern. "It looks like a PTM mastering system will be cheaper than existing DVD systems," said a source at the company.

3.5-Second Cycle Time

The HD DVD group is also making great strides in dropping manufacturing costs to match those of DVD. Cinram International, Inc of the US has manufactured 800,000 evaluation disks, and Memory-Tech Corp of Japan 200,000, demonstrating the validity of the technology.

Memory-Tech installed new manufacturing equipment designed specifically for HD DVD in its Tsukuba Plant, in May 2004. The manufacturing line is intended to slash cycle time to just over 3.5 seconds, about the same as DVD-ROM lines, for single-sided, single-layer 15GB media.

[indolikaa]

:cracks knuckles: tanding by to hack:

[MikieV]

If they get smart - they'll release new, lets call it "HD-DVD" format, on a totally new media format.

I think that would only work if the entertainment industry (music, tv, movie) got together to bankroll the development of the new format - so they would own the associated patents - and thereby be able to prevent compatible recorders from being built.

As long as they depend on the technology-companies to develop, and therefore control the use of, the formats that are used for distribution - they will be at the mercy of the technology-companies' desire for return on investment, by spreading-out the use of the technology to as many areas as possible.

A "unique" format is probably a moot-point, anyway. How long before people stop "ripping & burning", and start "ripping & streaming" (wired or wireless) from their "PC" to their "entertainment system"?

Mike

[DereX888]

MikieV:

A "unique" format is probably a moot-point, anyway. How long before people stop "ripping & burning", and start "ripping & streaming" (wired or wireless) from their "PC" to their "entertainment system"?

IMO a "unique" format is the only chance they've got.
If I understand correctly what you mean by "ripping & streaming" it won't be physically possible for most of people - whom already can do "ripping & burning" now - for longer than a generation (30 years).
10 years or so later, after so called 'internet boom' - half of the USA is still on a dialup, most of the Europe is still on a dialup, not even all of Japan is on any fast DSL/cable, and the rest of the world is very happy at all to have any dialup access. I heard about "streaming" when Pentium II processors came out. Since then it is *still* some stinky realmedia or quicktime, with windowsmedia format joining them half way. Quit dreaming about "streaming" (p2p/ftp/whatever form of online exchange) of HD DVD movies Yeah, it may become available to some lucky few, in a highly concentrated urban areas - if those telco companies start offering cheap home fibre optic subscriptions - but again: it will be gobbled up by enthusiast like people on this board, not even remotely by any "average Joes".
With "streaming" I'd call it a progress if 10 years later most of the world would have in average 128k download speeds.

[Greg12]

They are going to f' up because they will store ALL the codes in the players of else make people hook the player up to a telephone line because they can't randomly add and remove keys unless the player knows all the keys.

[ViRaL1]

Quit dreaming about "streaming" (p2p/ftp/whatever form of online exchange) of HD DVD movies Yeah, it may become available to some lucky few, in a highly concentrated urban areas - if those telco companies start offering cheap home fibre optic subscriptions - but again: it will be gobbled up by enthusiast like people on this board, not even remotely by any "average Joes".
With "streaming" I'd call it a progress if 10 years later most of the world would have in average 128k download speeds.

I gather from the 'ripping' part, what they're talking about isn't streaming from online, but ripping to your home storage system and streaming it to whatever multimedia device you choose to watch on at home. For example I can run all my ISOs over 802.11g to my laptop using Daemon Tools and watch it just like I have the disc in the drive, anywhere in my home.

[DereX888]

IC. I didnt think of that But yes, it is streaming after all.
I too watch often movies on my backyard bench 'streamed' that way from my PVR box in a basement...

[Mr anderson]

yo marvel2020, so bro so true!

[MikieV]

IC. I didnt think of that But yes, it is streaming after all.
I too watch often movies on my backyard bench 'streamed' that way from my PVR box in a basement...

Sorry I'm so late to clarify, but that is what I meant by "streaming" - whether wireless via 802.11g/a (b is only fast enough for mpeg1/mpeg4?) or by running an ethernet cable from PC to the "bridge" device.

People are doing it already (for non-HD) using Tivo/ReplayTV units with network/wireless capability, standalone "media players", etc. (as you and ViRaL1 mention).

My main idea was that ripping to BlueRay from an HD-DVD would not allow you to play the copy in a standalone HD-DVD player, but you could still play it back from your PC to your TV.

I was also dis-agreeing with an earlier post (can't remember who, different thread) that BlueRay will be "useless" if commerical films are only released on HD-DVD. That was in my mind, while I was posting for this thread.

Mike