what is the best TBC for dvd recorders?

[tony blaze]

i have been transfering old EP VHS tapes to DVD with my panny DMR-E100h and the TBC built in doesnt seem to help at all. The picture isn't horrible but i think there could be room for improvement. I'm not trying to get around macrovision because i already have a clarifier for that. For cleaning up video, i could use some help.

[lordsmurf]

DNR/TBC in JVC HR-S9911 (or other older models 9600-9800)
or SR-V10U (or other older 7800-7900)

This will do most for the tape.

DataVideo TBC-1000 or AVToolbox AVT-8710 for motion problems.

[nmtk]

Any comments on differences between the two external TBCs you've listed? I notice that the Datavideo costs about $100 more than the AVT, while the AVT appears to allow for more control... but is there something better or different about the Datavideo that justifies the extra cost?

Also can you clarify what you mean by "motion problems"?

Thanks!

nm

[ejai]

I own both TBCs the Datavideo TBC-1000 and the AVT 8710.

I prefer the AVT-8710 because of control over video quality. Also I noitced that the TBC-1000 blurs the video, you tend to lose the sharpness. I spoke to two other TBC-1000 users and they agree that the video is a bit softer after being processed through this device. I also noticed that some tapes jitter more when played through the TBC-1000. These same tapes play perfectly through the AVT-8710.

On the flip side the AVT has issues with the s-video functions of the device, it shows noise in the video stream when using the straight s-video hookup. The only way I found to remedy this is to hook your system up this way:

EXAMPLE:
Vhs player out----------------> composite in on the AVT-8710, then
s-video out from AVT-8710-----------------> to your dvd recorder's in.

In other words mix it up, don't use both s-video connector on the AVT-8710, use the composite for the in, and s-video for the out.

This has helped me clear up the noise in the video. Other than that the AVT-8710 is the choice I prefer. Believe me the controls over brightness, color and sharpness are worth the purchase alone.

[gshelley61]

I am getting the best results using composite video straight through to my JVC DVD recorder. If I use s-video out from my laserdisc player, VCR, or SCC Pro I get a bit of dot crawl. The JVC takes the composite video and decodes it for MPEG2 recording anyway, with no dot crawl.

[gshelley61]

I own both TBCs the Datavideo TBC-1000 and the AVT 8710.

I prefer the AVT-8710 because of control over video quality. Also I noitced that the TBC-1000 blurs the video, you tend to lose the sharpness. I spoke to two other TBC-1000 users and they agree that the video is a bit softer after being processed through this device. I also noticed that some tapes jitter more when played through the TBC-1000. These same tapes play perfectly through the AVT-8710.

On the flip side the AVT has issues with the s-video functions of the device, it shows noise in the video stream when using the straight s-video hookup. The only way I found to remedy this is to hook your system up this way:

EXAMPLE:
Vhs player out----------------> composite in on the AVT-8710, then
s-video out from AVT-8710-----------------> to your dvd recorder's in.

In other words mix it up, don't use both s-video connector on the AVT-8710, use the composite for the in, and s-video for the out.

This has helped me clear up the noise in the video. Other than that the AVT-8710 is the choice I prefer. Believe me the controls over brightness, color and sharpness are worth the purchase alone.

ejai, is the image quality of the AVT-8710 much better than Sima correctors? I mean, have you had the chance to compare them and their enhancing capabilities? I'm just curious because I'm considering getting the AVT and want to know if it is worth the extra money.

[ejai]

I had two Sima Color Correctors and I found them to be very noisy when it comes to video quality. My older dvds that were created using the SCC show signs of noise and artifacts throughout the video.

Once I started using the AVT-8710 my video is much cleaner. I can't speak on wether the JVC will do a better job using the SCC, I was using the Pana E50 at that time.

Personally I don't like the SCC.

[huntr]

Will AVT clean up the video noise such as "grainy or snowy look alike" picture? I have several old VHS with little blur picture and will both sharp it up? Will Sima video editors such as CopyThis or GoDVD solve the problems?

Let me know before I make a purchase.

Thanks!

[lordsmurf]

Will AVT clean up the video noise such as "grainy or snowy look alike" picture? I have several old VHS with little blur picture and will both sharp it up? Will Sima video editors such as CopyThis or GoDVD solve the problems?

Let me know before I make a purchase.

Thanks!

No. You need DNR. The JVC does TBC/DNR at the same time.

[ejai]

I tested the Sima GoDVD last night, my findings are is it's nice...... no frills.....it pretty much does what is advertised. The AVT-8710 is much better. Like Lordsmurf said these additions are only enhancements, the dvd recorder has the technology to clean up video.

That is why it is important to choose the correct one. 8)

[Capmaster]

i have been transfering old EP VHS tapes to DVD

Are you sure this isn't the root cause of your problems? I have never had good results capping EP VHS .....LP, yes, but EP was just too ratty-looking.

[gshelley61]

I had two Sima Color Correctors and I found them to be very noisy when it comes to video quality. My older dvds that were created using the SCC show signs of noise and artifacts throughout the video.

Once I started using the AVT-8710 my video is much cleaner. I can't speak on wether the JVC will do a better job using the SCC, I was using the Pana E50 at that time.

Personally I don't like the SCC.

Great, thanks. I just got a real bargain on a pretty expensive piece of gear... the Elite Video BVP-4+ processor. It's supposedly one of the best video enhancers ever made and was about $750 when new. One of the unique features it has (in addition to full range color and black level control) is the ability to increase lines of resolution, not simply sharpen. I'll let you know how it compares to the SCC, which I expect will be blown away by this professional quality device.

[dphirschler]

That's quite a stretch to say that it increases lines of resolution.


Darryl

[gshelley61]

That's quite a stretch to say that it increases lines of resolution.


Darryl

That's what the manufacturer says in their literature - maybe it's some kind of quasi-scaler or line-doubler or something. I'm interested in seeing if it really works. There's a number of professional videographers who swear by this thing.

[gshelley61]

How about this:

http://www.focusinfo.com/datasheets/MXPDVDS.pdf

Four channel TBC/Frame Synchronizer, 10-bit 4:2:2 sampling, handles analog and digital video in and out, color correction, SMPTE bar generator, more than 500 real-time digital transitions, 60dB video S/N ratio and 85dB 2-channel audio S/N ratio... $1400

[broadway]

Other than that the AVT-8710 is the choice I prefer. Believe me the controls over brightness, color and sharpness are worth the purchase alone.

I'm getting ready to use the AVT-8710 I bought.
Can you tell me whether the default settings are a good place to start? Or something else? I am using for two purposes - removing Macrovision and "cleaning up" videotapes that are 5-10 years old.

Thanks.

[richdvd]

I am using for two purposes - removing Macrovision and "cleaning up" videotapes that are 5-10 years old.

I don't think the AVT-8710 removes macrovision.

[ejai]

It does remove macrovision, that was one of the reasons I bought it.

[zorankarapancev]

That's what the manufacturer says in their literature - maybe it's some kind of quasi-scaler or line-doubler or something. I'm interested in seeing if it really works. There's a number of professional videographers who swear by this thing.

I don't want to be negative because maybe you would like this unit. I just want to tell you that this unit is not line-dubler or quasi-scaler. It busts a high frequency of the pictures and that is how it gives you an impression of increasing lines of resulution. And also, there is a number of disapointed professional videographers who sold this unit for half the price.

Sincerely,
Zoran
(professional videographer)

[zorankarapancev]

How about this:

http://www.focusinfo.com/datasheets/MXPDVDS.pdf

Four channel TBC/Frame Synchronizer, 10-bit 4:2:2 sampling, handles analog and digital video in and out, color correction, SMPTE bar generator, more than 500 real-time digital transitions, 60dB video S/N ratio and 85dB 2-channel audio S/N ratio... $1400

I have that one. It is good Video Mixer with poor color correction. If you want to spend $1400 for TBC then look for some real broadcast units not for this mixer.

[ejai]

How about this:

http://www.focusinfo.com/datasheets/MXPDVDS.pdf

Four channel TBC/Frame Synchronizer, 10-bit 4:2:2 sampling, handles analog and digital video in and out, color correction, SMPTE bar generator, more than 500 real-time digital transitions, 60dB video S/N ratio and 85dB 2-channel audio S/N ratio... $1400

I have that one. It is good Video Mixer with poor color correction. If you want to spend $1400 for TBC then look for some real broadcast units not for this mixer.

I've seen this unit and its UNBELIEVABLE!!! The only problem is the cost. The price has dropped some since it first came out. If it ever goes under $1000 I will purchase it myself.

I had an earlier version of this device from Videonics and it was great. I sold it to a friend for a Sima video enhancer and have regreted it ever since.

[zorankarapancev]

ejai, why do you need video mixer? Are you in the video production and post-production?

[gshelley61]

That's what the manufacturer says in their literature - maybe it's some kind of quasi-scaler or line-doubler or something. I'm interested in seeing if it really works. There's a number of professional videographers who swear by this thing.

I don't want to be negative because maybe you would like this unit. I just want to tell you that this unit is not line-dubler or quasi-scaler. It busts a high frequency of the pictures and that is how it gives you an impression of increasing lines of resulution. And also, there is a number of disapointed professional videographers who sold this unit for half the price.

Sincerely,
Zoran
(professional videographer)

Well, that's OK. I only paid $90 plus shipping for the BVP-4 I'm getting. I figure it's got to be a better performer than the P.O.S. Sima processor I'm using. If not, I see them selling on eBay for double that from time to time, so I can't really lose either way.

Since you are in the business, what would you suggest for a video processer that can effectively correct color, black level, enhance detail and sharpness, etc. without adding lots of artifacts or noise? And doesn't cost thousands of dollars?

One more question... if you were shopping for a used professional TBC/Frame Sync, what brand/models would you look for?

[zorankarapancev]

If you want to buy a good Time Base corrector then look for these brands:

Prime Image
FOR.A
DPS

You can find all of these brands as second hand at more reputable dealers
of used broadcast equipment. Choose any model of these brands that will suit your budget. Stay away from units that have been extensively used because usualy they are out of specs.

An inexpensive but good color corrector is the Panasonic PV-CC50-K ( R/B balance, tint, color intensiti, sharpnes, video & S-video inputs and outputs).

P.S. Maybe you will find that your new procesor will be fine for your needs. By the way the price you paid was excellent! Make some tests before you make a decision to eventually sell it.

P.P.S. IMHO the new AVT-8710 would be probably the best value from all available TBC units. See previous ejai's comments on the other threds.

[gshelley61]

Thanks for the tips, zorankarapancev... I'll definitely thoroughly check out that Elite Video processor. Like I said, I've heard some good things about it, although it may not be the most user friendly due to its unique control layout.

I've been considering a used pro TBC rather than buying a new consumer level model, so I will keep an eye out for the brands you suggested. Perhaps I will run across a bargain on one of those as well.

[lordsmurf]

The thing that always scares me a way from high end pro equipment is the connections are not always the typical composite/s-video we use at home.

[gshelley61]

The thing that always scares me a way from high end pro equipment is the connections are not always the typical composite/s-video we use at home.

Yes, all those BNC's! You do have to know what you are dealing with, for sure. Pro gear uses everything from standard composite on a single BNC all the way up to RGBHV signals - 5 BNC's, plus maybe a Genlock, etc.

Some pro gear has the 4-pin DIN S-Video jacks, too (same as at home) in addition to the BNC's (I work in the cable TV business, so I see all this pro broadcast stuff every day).

[K4S3RYN]

All this talk of composite is throwing me a bit. What exactly do you all mean by it.. i had thought that composite was the lowest form of life video connection wise.. isn't it that single wire connection.. like the yellow lead in a 3 plug phono set? Or do u mean component? Also.. has anyone got some feedback on the recommeded AVT-8710 since this thread was active?

[gshelley61]

All this talk of composite is throwing me a bit. What exactly do you all mean by it.. i had thought that composite was the lowest form of life video connection wise.. isn't it that single wire connection.. like the yellow lead in a 3 plug phono set? Or do u mean component? Also.. has anyone got some feedback on the recommeded AVT-8710 since this thread was active?

Many video formats are composite originally... VHS and laserdisc, for instance. They do not carry separate Y and C signals, therefore have to be "decoded" by a Y/C comb filter to create an S-Video signal. These comb filters vary in quality, so which one you use in your signal chain can make a difference. I have found the comb filter in the JVC DVD recorder to be very good. When I have decoded to S-Video using the laserdisc player, video processor, etc. and then connected that to the S-Video input of the recorder, I usually wound up with some dot crawl. Also, the composite output of my particular laserdisc player is brighter, sharper and more detailed that the S-Video output is. Apparently the comb filter in my laserdisc player isn't that great. The mantra that "S-Video is always superior" is not necessarily true.

If the source has separate Y/C signals to start with (like S-VHS does), then it certainly would be better to maintain that signal all the way through because decoding with a comb filter is not required.

[K4S3RYN]

Thanks Gshelley.. i really didnt know this. So for transferring from vhs tapes [in my 9600] it might be better investing in a good composite lead huh.. did u get the 8710 in the end btw.. or a professional tbc unit? I'm about to buy something like it and wondering which way to jump