For a good laugh, read this

[holistic]

Hmm intresting - yes lots of very good guides indeed. Can you explain the constant influx of retarded questions.? Seems people cannot learn everything they need to know in less than a week.

This is going to get off topic, but I hate people like this.

Why, if someone comes in here asking a question that you deem simple, is that person asking a "retarded" question. A few times I have skimmed the guides and past posts for an answer to my question, only to find an answer and maybe not understand it, or possibly not find it at all (the search function doesnt really work that well in my opinion).

So, I ask a question that is DIFFICULT to me. I dont give a shit if its a simple to someone else. The mods in here, and many others, have years and years of experience in this field. So for them, my question may be trivial or easy to answer or even downright foolish. But to me, its a valid question.

Calling me or my question "retarded" is just not right.

"There are no stupid questions. There are only stupid people not willing to answer those questions."

LG

Next time you quote me be sure to put in in context. It was, if you can understand english, in your defense. I was attacking the statement people can learn everything they need to know in less than a week

Quote:
There are such good guides out there that people can learn everything they need to know in less than a week.


Hmm intresting - yes lots of very good guides indeed. Can you explain the constant influx of retarded questions.? Seems people cannot learn everything they need to know in less than a week.


If you wish to think of your question as retarded then so be it. But I never, as you say, called you a 'retard'

Ooops I was wrong - retard.

][

[Supreme2k]

holistic, I agree that you owe a few people an apology. At the very least, the apology should contain the words above your avatar.

[jimmalenko]

There is still an authoring stage when you are merely copying a DVD - its just that most programs like Shrink do it for you.

That's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to the goofy term "dvd-making." Any SVCD Makers here? How about VCD Makers? Lets bring out the bakers and candlestick makers while we're at it, maybe throw in a babymaker too

VCD Makers still author. I don't understand your flippant nature here.

Your statement is flawed. What does Shrink author exactly? It re-authors if you choose to go that route, but for full-disc backups what would you say it does? It's basically a transcoder for authored, multiplexed content.

I couldn't agree more with the latter half of this. The term "re-author" really should give it away I think though. Where is the flaw ?

You love the glossary and menus to the left, can you find DVD Shrink under authoring tools? I don't see it... For single layer backups its not even needed.

True. I don't see it under DVD Rip Tools either though.

I think the point that Sony and the like are trying to make is that CD and DVD should be used for data backup and archival purposes - this is certainly what they intended it to be for when they created it. They should just get the music and movie industries to choose a different media.

The first two DVD-R drives ever to be introduced were made precisely for the dvd-authoring market, hence the distinction between dvd-r general and dvd-r AUTHORING media. If you wanted to backup data you just used tape, its been around for years. For small quantities go with cd-r... I might buy that excuse.

The argument seems to be that CD and DVD were created for data backup purposes for the home user - how many home users would install a DLT drive ?

[freestyler]

VCD Makers still author. I don't understand your flippant nature here.

It's called authoring, not making.

There is still an authoring stage when you are merely copying a DVD - its just that most programs like Shrink do it for you.

Shrink doesn't author, it manipulates what's already been authored (reauthors). You said it authors. That's your flawed statement.

Author
To format video into a form ready to burn onto a recordable disc or to stream onto the Internet. VCD, SVCD and DVD Author is to format video into its standard file structure and also add optional menus, chapters, audio tracks, subtitles, slideshows and much more.

The argument seems to be that CD and DVD were created for data backup purposes for the home user - how many home users would install a DLT drive ?

Well if you take that view, the argument never ends. The CD, killed, the floppy. The DVD killed the CD. The ____ will kill the dvd.

If a home user wants to buy a tape drive (Jaz, DLT, whatever) I could care less. There's not much else you can do with a tape drive but backup data...

My point was that dvd-r in its recordable form was first introduced in the authoring format to aid in dvd production and testing.

[jimmalenko]

VCD Makers still author. I don't understand your flippant nature here.

It's called authoring, not making.

Authoring is just one stage in the overall process of making a VCD/SVCD/DVD.

There is still an authoring stage when you are merely copying a DVD - its just that most programs like Shrink do it for you.

Shrink doesn't author, it manipulates what's already been authored (reauthors). You said it authors. That's your flawed statement.

No. Re-author means "author again". Therefore it does author.

[stiltman]

Finaly a thread subject that's not off topic

[freestyler]

Call it what you will. I don't see DVD Shrink as a full-fledged authoring tool, and the whole process to me will still be "authoring."

I'd much rather be called an author than a capturer, encoder, burner, or maker.

In that context, and in my view, the term authoring covers the whole spectrum.

[jimmalenko]

Call it what you will. I don't see DVD Shrink as a full-fledged authoring tool, and the whole process to me will still be "authoring."

Correct, it isn't a fully fledged authoring tool, because it can't author from Elementary streams or anything like that. But it is by definition, an authoring tool, just that it can only take previously authored material as input.

I'd much rather be called an author than a capturer, encoder, burner, or maker.

In that context, and in my view, the term authoring covers the whole spectrum.

I guess in that context we are talking about an author as a creator in a more generic sense.

In the context of DVD operations, the term author has a more specific meaning and defines a stage in the overall process, not the overall process itself.

[proxyx99]

Can't resist interjecting here. "To author" means to create or originate an unpublished piece not just to re-write or edit. For this, these terms are much more suitable. Pushing few buttons and putting some checkmarks in DVDShrink is as far from authoring as I am now from the planet Pluto. If calling making a stripped down or shrinked copy of an existing DVD "authoring" makes someone feel better, by trying to add value to a process that does not require to utilize more then 5% of brain power, then so be it. But "authoring" is reserved for something different. You can try selling your newly "authored" piece of work to see if it qualifies under the copyright act as a new creation. Until that moment I'd say suggesting that copying/shrinking or whatever else we call it is "authoring" is a huge misunderstanding.

[jimmalenko]

Can't resist interjecting here. "To author" means to create or originate an unpublished piece not just to re-write or edit. For this, these terms are much more suitable. Pushing few buttons and putting some checkmarks in DVDShrink is as far from authoring as I am now from the planet Pluto. If calling making a stripped down or shrinked copy of an existing DVD "authoring" makes someone feel better, by trying to add value to a process that does not require to utilize more then 5% of brain power, then so be it. But "authoring" is reserved for something different. You can try selling your newly "authored" piece of work to see if it qualifies under the copyright act as a new creation. Until that moment I'd say suggesting that copying/shrinking or whatever else we call it is "authoring" is a huge misunderstanding.

We mustn't forget the context we are talking about authoring in though.

VCD/SVCD/DVD AUTHORING is the conversion of VCD/SVCD/DVD compliant files into VCD/SVCD/DVD file structure, ready to burn.

Thus re-authoring in DVD Shrink is taking an existing DVD and re-creating the correct DVD structure for the "new" material (rewriting IFO files etc). If it didn't recreate the correct structure, the new creation would not be compliant.

But you are both entitled to your opinions.

When someone says they ripped a DVD, you don't take the generic meaning and ask if they mean they physically ripped it in half, do you ?

[freestyler]

DVD-Video content development has three basic parts: encoding, authoring (design, layout, and testing), and premastering (formatting a disc image). The entire development process is sometimes referred to as authoring.

I know the process quite well, jimmalenko

[jimmalenko]

DVD-Video content development has three basic parts: encoding, authoring (design, layout, and testing), and premastering (formatting a disc image). The entire development process is sometimes referred to as authoring.

I know the process quite well, jimmalenko

If TFM condones it then I'm gonna have to concede

[MackemX]

that 4-8 hours may just be true for someone who has never even thought about copying DVD, though it is a little extreme to most in this forum. It's obvious this guy is a complete newbie in this field but good on him. If he kept at it he would soon learn more and probably edit his views as he would soon increase his knowledge

why can't people realise that there is a large scale of peoples learning capabilities, right at the top with the Einstein's and right down to the Homer Simpson's

imagine a brain surgeon is someone who can't copy a DVD as quick as most. Does that mean he is stupid? What if he had wrote this review?

that's why I laugh at those who mock others lack of knowledge in this field. It's as if they feel superior in some way to the newbies and get a buzz out of it. Do they need their ego's boosting in some way? What if you compared jobs or IQ's for example? Someone who takes the piss out of someone else just because they know more than them in that field actually shows how immature the basher is. Who's to say that if the newb put in the same amount of time and effort they couldn't surpass the level the basher is at?

another thing that people sometimes don't appreciate is that some just don't have the time to put in the hours to gain the same knowledge and experience

people learn skills with very little training yet some just cannot be taught no matter what. An example is learning to drive, to some it's easy yet to some it's impossible or takes an eternity and the same goes for using a PC

Some people are also petrified of using a PC yet I can just about do anything apart from program. That doesn't make me better than my mate who's completely useless on a PC yet he can strip and rebuild a complete car and is also a mechanic

these ego boosting people should grow up and see the 'real' world as a whole as it's not all about DVD backups and how much you know or how long it takes you to learn it

[jimmalenko]

that 4-8 hours may just be true for someone who has never even thought about copying DVD, though it is a little extreme to most in this forum. It's obvious this guy is a complete newbie in this field but good on him. If he kept at it he would soon learn more and probably edit his views as he would soon increase his knowledge

why can't people realise that there is a large scale of peoples learning capabilities, right at the top with the Einstein's and right down to the Homer Simpson's

imagine a brain surgeon is someone who can't copy a DVD as quick as most. Does that mean he is stupid? What if he had wrote this review?

that's why I laugh at those who mock others lack of knowledge in this field. It's as if they feel superior in some way to the newbies and get a buzz out of it. Do they need their ego's boosting in some way? What if you compared jobs or IQ's for example? Someone who takes the piss out of someone else just because they know more than them in that field actually shows how immature the basher is. Who's to say that if the newb put in the same amount of time and effort they couldn't surpass the level the basher is at?

another thing that people sometimes don't appreciate is that some just don't have the time to put in the hours to gain the same knowledge and experience

people learn skills with very little training yet some just cannot be taught no matter what. An example is learning to drive, to some it's easy yet to some it's impossible or takes an eternity and the same goes for using a PC

Some people are also petrified of using a PC yet I can just about do anything apart from program. That doesn't make me better than my mate who's completely useless on a PC yet he can strip and rebuild a complete car and is also a mechanic

these ego boosting people should grow up and see the 'real' world as a whole as it's not all about DVD backups and how much you know or how long it takes you to learn it

There, I've had my fun...

[MackemX]

@jimmalenko,

lol, gotta laugh aint you

[flaninacupboard]

It's when people have clearly done -no- research, and want a simple answer to a complex problem. borrowing from the mechanic analogy, you wouldn't walk into a local garage and say "Tell me how i put a 4 litre jaguar engine in my ford Pinto?" and get pissed off when someone says "you can't, don't be so stupid."

Same thing when someone says "tell me how i put this DVD into Divx without losing quality" stock answer is "you can't, don't be so stupid."

[MackemX]

yep, I agree totally as I I'd hate to see stupid newbies questions everywhere. Difference is there is an art to telling people 'don't be so stupid' without having to insult them . It's amazing how some can just say 'been asked before, please read the guides on the left next time' and then you get the wannabe wise crackers who see fresh meat to prey upon

but why do these bashers get so pissed off as it's a simple click to return to the main forum? It's not as if they asking them directly is it?

or is it maybe the bashers need a guide on how to read a thread, ignore it without feeling the need for an ego boost and return to the main forum

lol

[flaninacupboard]

not a bad idea, i've been meaning to write a guide for ages!

[jimmalenko]

Difference is there is an art to telling people 'don't be so stupid' without having to insult them . It's amazing how some can just say 'been asked before, please read the guides on the left next time' and then you get the wannabe wise crackers who see fresh meat to prey upon

but why do these bashers get so pissed off as it's a simple click to return to the main forum? It's not as if they asking them directly is it?

or is it maybe the bashers need a guide on how to read a thread, ignore it without feeling the need for an ego boost and return to the main forum

lol

There's no fight in the dog tonight so I'll sidestep the usual trigger points...


I think it stems from primary(elementary) school behaviour where the grade 2's beat up the preps, the grade 4's beat up the grade 2's, and so on. I guess the key is to remember that there is always someone bigger, stronger, faster, better, smarter and/or possibly even more good looking than all of us.

It is a dog eat dog world.

[fritzi93]

Who's to say that if the newb put in the same amount of time and effort they couldn't surpass the level the basher is at?

Indeed, why do some people take so much pleasure in bashing noobs? Why bother? To lord it over someone else, I guess.

Nevertheless, it DOES take time and effort to gain some proficiency. Just consider the hundreds of jargon terms one must become familiar with. Or the numerous alternative methods for each step of the process(es). Those willing to go the distance have been bitten by the video hobbyist bug, and are a distinct minority. JMHO

[gitreel]

And, just consider that you were new once too. :P

[DVD_Ripper]

It's when people have clearly done -no- research, and want a simple answer to a complex problem. borrowing from the mechanic analogy, you wouldn't walk into a local garage and say "Tell me how i put a 4 litre jaguar engine in my ford Pinto?" and get pissed off when someone says "you can't, don't be so stupid."

Same thing when someone says "tell me how i put this DVD into Divx without losing quality" stock answer is "you can't, don't be so stupid."

Totally Agree ... these columnists spend all of a 1/2 hour researching intended topic to meet their press deadlines. Probably did a Ask Jeev (since he's not too keen with Google yet) to research his topic.

[Gurm]

Well I think some might argue that they bash n00bs to make a point, but the point is lost on the next batch of n00bs that won't read any old posts any more than they'll read the stickies or the guides.

- Gurm

[flaninacupboard]

true, but i read and read and read. even now i occasionally read new things, but most is experimentation and making mental notes of program functions. like last night, i wanted to take a concert DVD and make an audio CD, with each DVD chapter one track on the disc. there's probably a better way to do it, but, i knew DVDdecrypter would split my DVD by chapter and demux my .ac3. i knew Besweet would decode the .ac3, ssrc would convert to 44K and then i could just burn with nero. never needed to do it before, but knew a way to get it done because i took time to be familiar with my tools.

[Supreme2k]

I agree with most of the posts so far regarding newbs, with a couple of disclaimers:

1. I absolutely condone a full feeding-frenzy when someone does say "that question's been asked many times. Check out the guides to the left.", only to be met with "If you're going to be mean/stupid/innefectual, then stay out! I thought this site was about helping people, not about reading a bunch of stupid tutorials. I don't have time for that crap."

2. For these forums (and pretty much any "specialty" forum), video is pretty much your whole life (in regards to the board). Kind of like going to a Lord of the Rings board and asking "Who the hell is Frodo?" I can understand the occasional feathers getting ruffled when a newbie enters (or dives) into the forum with no research or context whatsoever. For many here, once they go to the boards, they live, sleep and breathe video, even if it's just a passing hobby in real life. Just as they wouldn't walk up to a complete stranger and insult them. By the same token, a newb (hopefully) wouldn't ask silly questions to complete strangers and insult them if the answer wasn't satisfactory.

[ViRaL1]

You're all wrong!

[jimmalenko]

I have found myself going through various stages all the time.

Sometimes I feel like bending over backwards to help the utterly lost noob, other times I'm happy to handball to the guides, and then sometimes I flame, or bait. This is because I can see that it would take way too much time and effort to help this particular person out, and the knowledge would probably be lost on them the next day. Some people really need to attend Video-101 IMO.

I do remember that I was once new, and probably asked some corkers that I would now shake my head at. I know though that I was referred to the guides and learnt all I know from reading guides, posts and by experimentation.


Now for my vent:

It pisses me off when particular people think act like this is a paid helpdesk, and that people here are in some way obligated to answer their posts, without attitude. It always seems to be about doing things the quickest, cheapest and best way.

I am happy to help someone who is prepared to listen and is willing to learn. There are two ways common questions are answered:

1. Plenty of guides to the left.
2. Step by step instructions.

Answer 1 makes the noob do some reading and while they may not understand it, gives them a feel for the guides section and how useful it could be in the future.

Answer 2 means that the noob will be back in the forum in two days' time, wanting the same in-depth answer to another "fundamental" question.

Given the influx of noobs due to the affordability of DVD writers, you can imagine the chaos if answer 2 were to become the norm.

If my views are wrong then I don't want to be right.

[duhmez]

OK back on topic now. I guess the MPAA wants the second amendmant to be removed? After all, you can' control what people will do with guns, the guns themselves must be illegal.
What's worse, copyright infringement, or murder? Handguns are meant for kiling people..........

[Gurm]

The MPAA and RIAA are fighting with every last ounce of energy they can muster AGAINST joining the 21st century.

It was the same way when Casette tapes came out. The battle was simply less public. Technology and innovation don't HAVE to be the enemy of capitalism, but they ARE the enemy of lazy greedy old money.

I buy DVD's which I deem worth buying. I buy CD's which I deem worth buying. The problem of course is that 99% of all CD's put out lately are garbage. Maybe one good song and 10 songs of filler. Not gonna pay $20 for one song.

The $1 per song online services took too long to step up to the plate. The reasonably-priced online movie services are taking even longer, and aren't delivering sufficiently high quality. (Why watch something in a compressed 640x480 window when the DIVX from Suprnova is full DVD resolution?)

With the amount of money the RIAA and MPAA have sunk into trying to stem online piracy, between lawsuits, marketing, lobbying, and trying to outright BUY new laws... they could EASILY have developed new revenue streams that EMBRACE new technology. Instead they're trying to eliminate the new technology entirely... which isn't going to happen.

- Gurm