Color Fastness of Epson R300 Printed Discs

[Chip]

LordSmurf, yes, there is some fading, but for that many days in the bright sun, that's not bad at all. That part you circled in blue is from the bird crap. Look very closely at the left edge of that CD. See how it smeared the color off. I literally wiped part of that color off and smeared a lot.

As for the other colors, since I didn't grid these and use a color picker, you'll have to use your own judgement.

I think what most people are saying is for a printer under $160 and no special ink, baked for the better part of a week in bright sun hovering just under 100deg in Texas.... it's darn good.

[lordsmurf]

Yeah, I'll agree. It looks fairly decent. It'll last for a while. About average for an inkjet.

I think the original discussion was who thinks the printer is worth it, and why. I deal with people that are trying to restore video. Some of them want a nice case, and would like them both to last 10-20+ years, unlike the video tapes that died in 5-10. Ink on paper won't do that, laser will. There is no laser on DVD yet (which is essentially just paper on a disc). For me, no, inkjet DVD printers are not worth the time. It'll look pretty for a few years, but not much else.

If anything, I'd rip apart my HP (or buy a crapped out Lexmark/Epson) and use TVI's guide to make my own DVD printer on the cheap.

Why were these tests done again..?
Nevermind, I'm done here.

[Chip]

Maybe we ought to see how long laser lasts too and throw it into the mix. Saying "laser lasts" is very subjective. The sun kills laser print too. Sun even kills solvent ink which will last a lot longer than laser print.

The topic of the other thread was if the R200 was worth it. The topic of this thread is the color fastness of the Epson R300.

Not printing graphics on your DVD's is your choice. I believe most people reading this thread want to print directly on their DVD's and consider it a more professional look. I can't remember the last time I bought a DVD and when I opened it up saw a non-printed DVD.

[stiltman]

OK, let's see... where do we start.

All of you are arguing over bullshit!

Have this thread locked so it will sink to the bottom, and start again with a new one.

Why did it take an idiot to point out the obvious? 8)

[Chip]

OK, let's see... where do we start.

These are NOT the exact same disk. One is a Beall (no sun) the other is something else.

Actually, they're both BeAll's.

There are differences in the colors between the disks before they were put out into the sun!

The discs were printed one right after another. You'll get the same minor variations if you cut a single disc in half (as you propose).

put the original picture in photo shop, turn the grid on, and measure the same parts of each with the damn eye dropper!

The problem is, the discs aren't oriented exactly same. Your grid won't work. There is no solid color in that print. They're all gradations, so an eyedropper is almost useless.

Print some color blocks or better yet stripes, a series of different colors that go from top to bottom and cover the entire disk, make sure one of them is white, and one of them is black!

Better yet, do as I suggested on my next test and do Pantone swatches. Your test is still flawed in that there's no reference. If you do Pantone swatches as I suggest, then no matter how well (or incorrect) a person's monitor is, we have a printed standard, not an RGB simulation. You can even scan the Pantone swatch next to the color.

Now you are ready for the lights! Go out and buy a plant grow light (for the UV), and a daylight florescent light (better would be a daylight incandescent but they have a lifespan of about 24 hours).

Hitting the disc with artificial light really isn't an accurate test. It's not sunlight and that's what we're testing here. I don't think people really care what happens when you hit a disc with plant grow lamps, florescent bulbs, argon lasers or any other artificial light.

Did the coating change? Did the ink change? Did both change? Did the disk get crapped on by a bird? Did it rain and wash the ink away? Humidity change? Temperature? Abrasion by wind borne dust? Did the scanner scan the same way as last time?

There are no coatings. The ink is the same ink on both discs. Yes, the disc was crapped on in the corner. There was no rain. Yes, humidity changes. Temperature is always dang hot in Texas in the summer. There's no visible abrasion. The scanner is an Epson perfection 1640SU scanner (pretty accurate).

If you are going to do it, then do it right. Have this thread locked so it will sink to the bottom, and start again with a new one.

Keep in mind I'm a pretty busy guy. I do have a life beyond putting discs in the sun. I sincerely hope this thread doesn't get locked. It has benefitted so many people. If you don't find it useful, maybe you should move on.

[The village idiot]

Whatever

[stiltman]

I'm curious, how are the discs?
You put the sunlight one in a ziplock bag right? to avoid rain, right?

Like to see if the tests are still running

Plus, I just felt the need to piss off TVI for not letting it die

[Chip]

I quit the test for now. At my store I have a file that we made up with all of the Pantone spectrum. We have it on a 3'x6' coroplast board. I'm going to see if I can find that file and shrink it to CDR size and print it and start the test all over again.

I hope to have time to do it correctly. I'm pretty busy right now. We do most of the graphics for the State Fair of Texas and that keeps us busy this time of year.

Thanks for not letting the thread die. I hope to report back with progress soon.

[Gritz]

Chip,
Before this post closes could you state the settings you used with your R300 to achieve the brightness I see in the pics? (enhance, vivid, darker setting, contrast, brightness,etc). Appreciate.

[Chip]

Well, I left it default. I probably shouldn't have done that. .. but, in the Epson Stylus Photo R300 Series Properties, this is what I have:

Main tab
Quality Option: Text
Paper Options: Manual, Type: CD/DVD Size: A4
Print Options: (none are checked)

Under the Advanced button
All color sliders are at default 0
Color Management: Color Controls checked, Gamma 1.8

[overloaded_ide]

I can't remember the last time I bought a DVD and when I opened it up saw a non-printed DVD.

I can, fairly recently!
Was a flipper! Tim Conway DVD with 2 movies, Which Way did they go on one side ands one of his other movies on the other but I forgot the name of that one.

I have also bought some that look more painted than printed normally. Most likely silk screened, one color. Both are comercail store bought disks.

If you start the test over, why not put a REAL DVD right next to the printed DVD R. Will a comercail DVD last any better than the printed DVD R? Maybe put Lord of the Rings 1, then printed DVD, then Rings 2, printed DVD, so forth.

Actually though interested in the results, I think it's kinda a moot point.
First I hope no-one actually stores their DVDs in direct sun. DVDs normally live in the dark, in a case where there is little light and I dought durring use there is much light on the top either since the laser is on the bottom

And in any case, no-one can really argue that a printed disk does not look better than hand written hen scratch scrawled across the top of the disk with a felt tip marker! I know my disks look much better now that I bought an R200, and I still like my lexmark mod printed disks. I am re-working the mod and gonna make it fancy and neater looking and still use it too again latter. It worked well!

In normal use I would have to say my disks are in the case 95% of the time or much more. I see no reason they should fade out or such anymore than other printing I have done in the past. I have stuff I have printed many years ago with other types of printers that look just like when printed and that stuff has just been sitting around any old place.
Recently I ran across some old pinback buttons I had made about 7 years ago, they were defective for various reasons so I did not give then to the client of course, they were just tossed off in a pile of junk. They look fine, printed with a Canon BJ 4100. Heck they could actually be as old as 9yrs posibly but I think 7yrs. Back in the beginning days when I first got into pinbacks.

[indolikaa]

I think you meant to say "all inks fade". Sure pigment based is better than dye. Then again solvent ink is better than pigment. My test is to see how well a R300 CD does under the sun. LordSmurf said "it would be faded to nothing by the end of the day". I thought that seemed a bit extreme so I thought I'd see and let everyone know.

I would be more interesting to do this test with an R800 and a Mimaki solvent based print. The problem is I don't have an R800 and my Mimaki is made for 6foot wide prints.

I problably won't have to wait 5 days till Friday to check color fastness since it fades to nothing in one day. But then again, these weathermen are rarely accurate.

I have an R200 printer. And I live in the Arizona desert at almost 7,000 feet, which means the lack of atmosphere tends to intensify the sun's effects.

I wonder what a disc out here would look like at the end of a typical summer day?

[Gritz]

Chip,
Thanks for the comeback. The first few I've printed seemed somewhat subdued, dull and not bright and vivid as I had hoped and I remember (but can't find the post where someone had experimented with different settings to increase the "brightness"). I'm thinking it also might be the media surface composition. Maybe I'll try the default. Appreciate.

[adam]

I can't remember the last time I bought a DVD and when I opened it up saw a non-printed DVD.

I can, fairly recently!
Was a flipper! Tim Conway DVD with 2 movies, Which Way did they go on one side ands one of his other movies on the other but I forgot the name of that one.

Well you can't really count those. If it were possible to label DVD-10's, dvd-14's or dvd-18's then I'm sure they would.

My R200 will be here this Thursday. I got it from Newegg for $83 shipped. The results from this thread and the other one have confirmed my belief that this is th best setup to have right now for labeling disks, especially for DVDs which seem to have many more problems with adhesive labels then cdrs.

[Chip]

Congratulations, Adam. I think the Epson R200 or R300 is a great investment. I see others are having success with the Lexmark conversion. That simply wasn't for me. While the experience would be interesting, my time just couldn't justify me NOT spending a few hundred on the R300. Even at $10/hr if you spend all day on a Lexmark conversion you've almost already paid for a R200 in your time alone.

To: indolikaa
Ya, I bet the Arizona sun would probably bake it a bit more than Dallas's.

Thanks to all for keeping the thread alive. After I'm done with State Fair of Texas graphics, I hope to do a color fastness test using Pantone swatches printed on DVDs. I probably won't put a commercially stamped DVD next to it.
1. I'm not sure that we'll discover anything we don't know now. (ie it'll last longer)
2. I don't feel like frying a DVD for an experiment

[overloaded_ide]

Well you can't really count those. If it were possible to label DVD-10's, dvd-14's or dvd-18's then I'm sure they would.

Ya, that was kinda a joke.

I liked the Lexmark mod, but I also bought a R200 when I found one for $100! No I wouldn't spend all day at $10 an hour modding a lexmark either. But if you like doing such things more as a hobby and learning experience then yes it's a great deal. Or if you just don't want to pay more than $50 for a disk pinter and can't find the R200 any cheaper.
I paid $25 for the lexmark brandnew.

Course other advantages of buidling your own, if you get it right, I'm planning to build a 3 or 4 disk caddy for the lexmark. Feed the disks in a row one after the other when I have several to do at once. If I get it right and reliable, then I can print 5 or more disks in about the time it takes to print 1 or 2 with a R200. While the R200 is shuffling the caddy, the lexmark is done. Though there is probably more chance of error with the Lexmark.

For the question on settings, I been using the R200 defaults and printing on Ritek printables for DVDs, I have not had any dull fadded problems. On Silver top TY CDs I get almost a hollogram effect for fancy stuff and it's bright and sharp.