Burning VCDs (including menus) to a DVD-R

[Soggy Shorts]

I am relatively new to this, and am hoping that you all can lend a hand. I have been burning single scene playing VCD/SVCDs for about a year now and have enjoyed the ability to do so immensely. The big problem that I have run into is compatability amongst friends/family. I love that there is a DVD compatability list here (I have surfed it thousands of times) but I am now at the point where I would like to be able to burn a disc that *anyone* (at least 90%) can play on a settop DVD player without a bunch of compatibilty homework being done, or special media being used.

That all being said, I purchased a Pioneer DVR-A03 DVD burner. I have had it for about 2 weeks now and still haven't burned a single disc. DVD-Rs are still pretty expensive and burning coasters isn't very cost efficient yet (like it is with CDs).

Now for my connundrum, I have recorded/encoded all of the episodes of a favorite program and would like to burn them to a DVD. The problem is that a DVD will only hold about 130 minutes of video, and I have about 10 hours worth to burn. 5 DVDs seems a bit much here. I have each program encoded in a mpg format and can fit about 8 episodes (there are 10 total) on a DVD (including all of the menu files) in strict file size alone, and yes that takes into account the difference in actual size from 4.7 gig to 4.3 gig. I would like to know if I can burn the menus and the files onto the DVD in a VCD format. Since many settop DVD players are also VCD players it seems that I should be able to burn VCD images onto a DVD and maintain VCD quality while getting DVD space.

The above raises the following questions, and hopefully the intelligensia that I see here can help with the answers that I need:

Can I burn menus/files in a VCD file structure onto a DVD and have it work on all/most settop DVD players that support VCDs?

I have all of the artwork created for the menus that I want to build (these are the first menus that I have ever attempted to create) how the hell do I put the menus together and make them interactive? Please pick an easy and intuitive program and I will buy the dang thing tomorrow!

What program should I use to burn the DVDs? Should I use one that came with the burner? I have leafed through the programs and haven't seen one that is very intuitive to burn a DVD with. Can I use NERO 5.5 and just burn 4.3 gigs worth of material on a DVD-R with the DVD burner?

Thanks for any help you all can provide, I know this is a pretty long post asking for pretty deep answers, but I think that these answers are the ones that will make the final link (at least for me) between camera and widespread distributable video. I thought that understanding the production aspects of video was a steep learning curve, geez, burning the product is even more involved! Thanks again for your answers.

[linardi]

I have similar question like you.
Shortly: Anybody can give the idea how to burn mpeg1 files into DVD media (DVD+RW or DVD-R or else?). The reason is simple: I have been working for more than two years editing my video to VCD. Some of them are stored in 2,3 or 4 VCD disks.
Sometimes, '101' mins must be burned into 2 VCDs.
Regardless the price of DVD+RW media and the quality (because it is still mpeg1 format), it will be more nice to have in one DVD media, than 2 or 3 VCDs.
Thanks.

[Kdiddy]

Please do some seaching of the forum first before wasting a post, this subject has been covered before. Here's the short version:

In the context of what you are thinking/wanting, no.

Problems:

Burning apps that come with DVD burners will only author DVD-R in DVD FORMAT, not VCD FORMAT. Mainly, because the firmware inside a settop DVD player has been program to think that DVD media only contains DVD FORMAT material, so it will not recognize it. The settops that play VCD have been firmware program to read VCD format ONLY from CDR(W)s. So its not a matter of the settop supporting VCDs, its a matter of whether they support DVD-Rs or DVD+RWs.

In short, you will have to get a DVD authoring app that accepts mpeg1 video (which most will not accept mpeg2 video, seeing thats what DVD spec calls for) and author it in DVD format...if not, then you will be faced with the task of converting you mpeg1 video to mpeg2 first.

[Greg12]

I guess what you would be trying to do is create the oposite of a mini-dvd.

[Vejita-sama]

So then one could store several xSVCD (ie. MPEG2) clips on the DVDR disc? That is as long as the data is MPEG2 I don't have to use a 'DVD standard' bitrate or resolution.

[Anonymous65]

DVD specs allow for VCD encoded video, but not audio. 352x240 @1150 Kb/sec mpeg-1 video is fine for DVD. However, the audio have to be converted from 44.1HKz sampling to 48KHz sampling to make it DVD compliant. I assume many DVD player will also play 44.1 KHz audio?
Anyway, I believe DVD authoring software can do the audio conversion automatically. Simply drag the VCD file into your DVD authoring software, and it will make it DVD ready to burn. Or, you can convert the audio using Tmepg or other software from 44.1 to 48 Khz. This should be a fairly easy process, the only scary problem might be audio sync with video. I have not tried converting the audio yet (since I don't have DVD burner, yet So, there should be no need to convert/reencode the video of a VCD to burn it on a DVD. You should be able to get around 8 hours of VCD quality video on a DVD disk.

[Soggy Shorts]

So then Skittleson, what you are saying is that I can burn VCDs to a DVD-R as long as I encode the audio at a 48KHz sampling rate? I like the idea of getting 8 hours worth of video on a single DVD, this makes my library quite a bit smaller physically.

Has anyone tried this yet?

I will start messing around with this stuff over the course of the next week, and if I find a way to do it I will post a tutorial for everyone. Just building the tutorial will be a benefit for me

Thanks for the positive replies and help, I knew that the people here would have the answers.

[Soggy Shorts]

One more question, does anyone with experience in this area have a good program that they use to burn DVD-Rs on a Pioneer DVR-A03? I would like to know which programs that you who have experience recommend. I am not very impressed with the bundled software so far...

[RimmeR]

Hi,
This is deep for a friday nite and a few beers well...the answer is yes you can burn VCD images onto a DVD-R, I've done it. I have a Pioneer like yourself and used MyDVD that came with writer. What i can tell you is this... I ripped a dvd to vcd like the explanation here http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdtovcd.htm . Which then left me an mpeg file. Then I burnt the VCD mpeg to DVD-RW. No problems whatsoever

RimmeR

[linardi]

Thank you guys.
I agree w/ Greg12: to create the oposite of a mini-dvd.
Many discussion and software about mini-dvd, but i couldnt find the oposite, how to convert mpeg1 to mpeg2 ( or maybe VCDGEAR can do it?)
I understand mini-dvd/ svcd are concerns 'at that time, that people wants DVD's quality but only VCD media available in market with 'reasonable price'.
Today/ next year , I am sure DVD+RW and the DVD media are cheaper and cheaper.
On the contrary, ( I guess ) minidvd-svcd issues will dissapear. Then people will think about how to convert mpeg1 to mpeg2 that can be burned into dvd format/ dvd media. Similar like analog video to digital video.
Still possible convert it thru digital 8 , captured as digital but still use the old analog cartridge.

I am sorry this message was posted at the same time with RimmeR. I ll try his advise.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: linardi on 2001-11-16 19:38:29 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: linardi on 2001-11-16 19:41:55 ]</font>

[Anonymous65]

If your source is VHS, you will obviously not get DVD quality video So, there is no point in recording to mpeg-2. Mpeg-1 will do just fine. Also, when saving VHS to DVD, the DVD spec allows 352x240 @1800 kb/sec mpeg-1 video. At 1.8 Mb/sec the video looks quite good. So people with hardware mpeg-1 encoders can still make decent DVD's from VHS records. However, it would be nice to capture audio at 48Khz directly.

[Kdiddy]

Lets clear up the misnomers flying around here first...

VCD is an authoring format, NOT a video format. The spec calls for mpeg-1 video, but some put mpeg-2 video in a VCD format as well.

DVD is also format will take mpeg-1 & mpeg-2 video.

So can you burn a DVD-R in VCD FORMAT, no. It is the same reason you cant burn a CDR(W) in DVD FORMAT and play it, because its a firmware issue.

Can you burn a DVD-R in DVD FORMAT using mpeg-1 video, yes.

[Soggy Shorts]

I think I am understanding now... I can burn VCD quality (mpeg 1) video to a DVD-R, but must create it with a file structure based upon the DVD format, NOT the VCD format (i.e. it must be vob files etc) This makes sense if I am understanding corectly. Thanks for the clarification Kdiddy.

Now let me dig a little bit deeper. As an example, I have an mpg (mpeg1) file that is 500 MB in size, when I put it through the "magic DVD maker" program (I am using Sonic MyDVD as of now) and it gets turned into a vob file, will it still only occupy 500 MB of space on the DVD-R, or does the compression change and expand this file to take up more space?

If I am figuring this out properly, I can create a DVD-R that will play in most settop players with up to 8 hours of video at a 1.8Mbit stream using 48KHz audio. The sacrifice I make in order to get more video on the DVD-R is video quality. Is this correct?

[Anonymous65]

I would go as far to say that VCD *IS* a video format. It specifies all the parameters for audio and video to make it compliant, and mpeg-2 is NOT an option in the VCD standard! VCD file or video adhere to a strict standard. If you change any of the parameters, it's no longer a VCD compliant file, so it's not just an authoring format. It is basically set in stone. Check out the VCD v2.0 or v1.0 standard complicances for the video file.

A DVD is just a CD with the capacity of 4.7gig instead of 700MB. A 500MB file will be 500MB on a DVD or a CD. So, simply think of a DVD as being a huge CD with more capacity.

[Kdiddy]

"It specifies all the parameters for audio and video to make it compliant, and mpeg-2 is NOT an option in the VCD standard!"

you just contradicted yourself and backed up what I stated..if it was a video standard, then why is audio involved??, no VCD is a authoring format period. I can multiplex any 1150 kbps, 352x240 mpeg-1 video & 224 bps mpeg-2 audio...and the result is an mpeg1 program file, NOT a VCD....its not a VCD until I author that mpeg1 program file in VCD format, thus I could take that same mpeg1 prgram file and author it in DVD format as well....this is why CD burning applications have VCD/SVCD authoring options....as far as mpeg2 not being standard,I never said it was, I said that is possible to mux mpeg-2 video & mpeg-2 audio into an mpeg1 program file, and author that as a VCD....some then term this xVCD...whatever you want to call it, it is still possible.

"A DVD is just a CD with the capacity of 4.7gig instead of 700MB."

No, DVD media & CD media are physically different..their differences are not simply a matter of difference in capacities.

"and it gets turned into a vob file, will it still only occupy 500 MB of space on the DVD-R, or does the compression change and expand this file to take up more space? "

The vobs are slightly bigger, not to point where it is of any real concern, like 500 mpg = 510 vob.

"The sacrifice I make in order to get more video on the DVD-R is video quality. Is this correct?"

Well yes and no, if your mpeg1s are already at 1.8mbit, then obviously there is no loss..but if you are talking about DVD rip, then yes.

[Faceman101]

I would say it's all matters with the firmware. My Apex 600a will only play Mini-DVDs if I upgrade the firmware to recognize everything I throw into it as a DVD disc. There are 2 different lasers in DVD players that can play VCDs. One for DVDs and one for CDs. For a DVD player to play VCDs burnt onto a DVD-R is a slim chance. The player will first see it's a DVD disc then use the DVD laser and then read what is on the disc. From here it will either play what is on it and not be biased to what media VCD is on or it will reject the disc b.c it knows it is supposed to be looking for DVD compatible files. Personally I would say it would have to be based on the player and only way to truly know if it works is to test it. What's the worst that can happen, you lose 5 dollars on a goof. Has anyone tried this and it worked? And on what player? I'm curious now.

[Anonymous65]

Whatever,
but in my book a .MPG file (I call it a video file) that of course also have the audio along with it, is conforming to a VCD standard. It is encoded and muxed according to the Mpeg-1 VCD standard with all the correct header information. If an audio and video file, aka, mpeg-1 encoded video and mpeg encoded audio is muxed together as a mpeg-1 stream with the correct header conforming according the VCD standard, IT IS A VCD COMPLIANT VIDEO FILE.
End of story, case closed..

[Kdiddy]

funny...first you say its a "video format" , now your story is its a "vcd compliant file"....nice dancing, anyways, the bottomline is that yes it is a firmware issue, and you can not author a DVD-R in VCD format and play it on standalone players.