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tomshardware.com says a lot of ridiculous/misguided things.
However, I don't see where this is written clear cut that anything is a "winner" ... can you quote it out? I seem to have missed it.Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
I assume you mean the Speed race? I will say that is correct but overall install base and media availability. DVD-R can still edge out +R. +R is almost non-exsistent in Asia. My personal opinion Dual Format won the race.
RG -
I was just wondering RAAGAAman where in Asia you mean. I just spent the last 2 years in Taiwan and I can tell you that +R is everywhere.
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Tom's Hardware Guide is an excellent site giving excellent reviews on product with back up of evidence, so they dont say ridiculous things lordsmurf
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Tom's Hardware lost their credibility years ago. They are trying to regain it through quantity, not quality. If you want media compatibility the clear winner still is DVD-Rs, with 93% compared to 88%. See the DVD section at left.
Hello. -
That quotation is completely taken out of context.
It states that the DVD Alliance (+) has won "the race" in commercially bringing out dual layer recorders.
I wonder Sam Ontario in whether you are being deliberately inflammatory??
If this thread turns out into another + vs - flame fest, I will lock it.
Regards.Michael Tam
w: Morsels of Evidence -
Just wait til 16x Dual Layer DVD*R/RW comes out. You'll all be sad and wishing you hadn't bought new burners!
Nothing can stop me now, 'cause I don't care anymore. -
Originally Posted by vitualisSam Ontario
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Originally Posted by Sam Ontario
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Its not the writer format what counts, but sales figures of blanks.
I.e. I always have a +/-/RAM writers for past 2+ years - and that means a squat for + format since I try to avoid them any way I can and + format was just 'shoved down my throat' because it came with my writer(s) and I had no chance of buying a writer I wanted without being forced to get it with this sick format.
If you were to check what is the ratio of -R compared to +R at the large and inexpensive stores, where they sell both -/+ kinds, from various manufacturers, you'll know that -R outsells +R like 3:1
That is what I call a winner. -
Basicly.... Who cares!
Personally I use DVD-R from T.Y. (and only T.Y.)
And since T.Y. don't have any DVD-RW, I don't use rewritables.
The plus discs finally catch up (if not cheaper) the dash discs. So, price is not an issue today as it was a year ago in Europe.
Personally, I keep using DVD-Rs. No problems till today, no reason to change.
I read from various sources that the big ones hate dash discs, 'cause are more difficult and expencive to manufacture. Plus discs are easier and cheaper ones. And that makes me wonder: Cheaper to manufacture means what? So I keep using dash...
Tom's hardware is not what it used to be 5 years ago.
Also, a general internet rule: When you see big ones sponsor a site, think twice about the reviews it offers. You don't bite the hand that feeds you... -
Originally Posted by SatStorm
PLUS R has a cheaper licensing fee, not sure about the testing and certification procedure, but they do tend to hand a new certification out left and right.Linux _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly. -
Originally Posted by vitualis
Quote:
Just as with improvements in speed, it is the format "+" that comes out the winner. That is mainly due to the number of manufacturers involved in the DVD+RW alliance. Thus, Pioneer has been almost alone in creating the products and requiring validation from the DVD Forum.
Unquote
To me, this seems to say that Pioneer is the only "-" struggling perhaps trying to catchup to DVD Forum, and the rest of the "-" have already given up. Again I maybe a bit presumptious and wrong from what I read. But I heard nothing since the "+" has announced faster speeds and DL "+R", and then they all happened and apparently nothing, no responses from the "-" camp. Have they really given up on "-"? It will be interested to know any latest development from the "-", if such a topic will lead to something.
This is the phenomenon I observed recently (from an ivory tower of point of view, maybe):
There are now many brands of 4x DVD+RW discs available on shelves and very difficult to find a 4x DVD-RW on shelves on major store chains. There are only a few brands 2x DVD-RW available in small quantities. +/- "R" same price and roughly same quantities.
It was a different story 3 months ago.
I hope the above have answered most of those concern about this topic.
The discussion is so far rational, informative, an update of the present "+" and "-" of the present situation. Maybe people have learnt from the past and better educated and restrained after so many flammatory and inflamatory threads on similar titles. At this stage, with such a response from a moderator, is'nt it a bit over-reacting with only a few replys?Sam Ontario -
Originally Posted by Sam Ontario
As for responses from the "-" side of things, DL "-" drives and media are well in development and more than likely be released soon. It is important to note that the DL "+" drives have really been released AHEAD of the availability of DL media and good DL burning and authoring software. Furthermore, the compatibility of DL "+" media from the limited reports that are out is not that good... It probably isn't due to any intrinsic limitations, rather it is released early in its development cycle.
This is the phenomenon I observed recently (from an ivory tower of point of view, maybe):
There are now many brands of 4x DVD+RW discs available on shelves and very difficult to find a 4x DVD-RW on shelves on major store chains. There are only a few brands 2x DVD-RW available in small quantities. +/- "R" same price and roughly same quantities.
There is a plethora of both +R and -R (i.e., once write) media.
If you ask around on the forums, the vast majority of drives now are dual-format burners. Most people seem to prefer -R discs for video projects.
BTW: at present, I personally use DVD+R media (as where I live, Verbatim DataLife Plus DVD+R 8x media in jewel cases are readily available and relatively cheap... )
Regards.Michael Tam
w: Morsels of Evidence -
Originally Posted by vitualisSam Ontario
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Well, there's only one race that's important to us and that's the compatability one. The winner is the format that will play in all of our DVD players. Since the "+"'s don't play in ANY of our machines and the "-"'s play in all of them, I couldn't care less if they come out with 100X "+" burners. They ain't finding their way into our offices.
Roberta -
Just curious to know how long ago that had you tried a "+" disc recording that didn't play in DVD players (old ones, new ones), last year? Yes, 18 months ago, I received a "+" that did not play at on two of my old version DVD players.
For your reference, I had recently, recorded a few home made videos to relatives with some quality brand 4x "-" discs that they said they did not play with some of their DVD players. They all played fine with my DVD players before I sent them off.
Don't get me wrong, I am a consumer and I still use "-" to burn my DVD home made movies, but I do tend to buy less "-" with same price same DVD quality. I stop buying any DVD-RWs, they are slower and more expensive.Sam Ontario -
Why would anyone want to try *again* something that wasn't working at first try?
Sam Ontario - give me any REAL advantages of "+" over "-" format and I'll eat my -R/RW blanks and switch to "+" blanks
But seriously - what is your REAL advantage of using + over - ?Some hypopthetical +DL disc that is almost coming to the store nearby me (I hear it for 3 or 4 months already)? Or is it the 8X speed - fast, but incompatible with many players +R?
Since begining of this format wars I always heard same aruments: +R are 10% faster (2.4x vs 2x) - like that minute or so of faster burning would really count anywhere LOL, I always said I'd rather burn my disc even 5 minutes longer but have it playable anywhere, and if I ever need quantity (when burning speed would be a factor) I'd just go order small batch of silverpressed and nicely printed discs at any local studio...
Later it was 4X speed that +R was first at, next was 8X. Now the DL.
Everything is faster with them +R, yet any given store selling both format medias still sell more of -R, doesnt it tell you what people prefer? Who cares whar Alliance or Consortium says - market already gave an opinion and pointed out clear winner.
And your example of Pioneer as the only "struggling" -R maker is really funny. I have few writers, all of them are dual or triple format - yet it should mean nothing for +R Alliance since I use only -R/RW media, and so are most of other people. FYI had Pioneer made some -R/-RAM writer I would have probably chose it over my current favorite LG writers with their +R/-R/-RAM triple formats.
Just because most of writers are dual format means only that manufacturers unusually give us a choice. Which format is a winner - check how many blanks of each are sold in your area. -
Here in the UK/United Kingdom, the -R/RW outsells the +R/RW counterpart.
More people prefer -R to +R due to compatibility although both are identical in price (e.g. 25 DVD-/+R for £4.00 English Pounds Sterling)
Numerous English/British websites have reported -R to sell more than the +R format.For Queen and Country!!! -
Originally Posted by DereX888
If you don't eat your words, then hopefully the medis won't be too harsh to your stomachIt's time to kick some butts, and presto ( if you know what I mean ) -
Originally Posted by US Guy
Of course by the time this is settled, I for one, will have moved on to blue ray, so I could really give a ratt's ass about it.Linux _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly. -
Originally Posted by SuperSaiyanZero
and what make are they?
Cheepest I can get quality media is about £9 for 25. -
Originally Posted by DereX888
Quality wise and compatibility wise, I don't see a difference whether it -R or +R. There bound to be some DVD players not compatible. If my relatives said if my -R disc is not compatible with their DVD player, I will send them a +R disc, or vice versa.
It is obvious to me in my area, Burners are faster with the "+", rewrite discs are faster with the "+" (4x against 2x with same price or 4x +RW is cheaper than 2x -RW), and for the write once, they are same priced with same brand same speed. In the long run, if "-" is incapable of catch up in media speed (mainly the rewrite) and burner speed, it is destined doom.
Of course, your mileage may vary.Sam Ontario -
A 4x DVD-R and 4x DVD+R write the same speed. Neither is faster.
Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
Who cares which one is better,i use + or - r depending on which gives me the best results and dont hold any allegiance to any manufactorer for any product,they only care about the profit.
I think,therefore i am a hamster. -
Originally Posted by lordsmurf
What I meant is available 16X or 12X "+" burners are faster than available "-" burners which are at best only 8x now. In the long run 16x "+" media prices will come down to almost same price as "-" 8x media. 16x "+" burner prices will also come down comparable with existing 8x +/- burners. Then people tend to choose faster speeds, given equal compatibility.Sam Ontario -
Originally Posted by disturbed1Sam Ontario
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Originally Posted by vitualis
Dash and Plus cost about the same here. My old Apex doesn't like plus, so I get dash, so yeah, compatibility is a consideration. Don't give a crap otherwise.
I too am waiting for Blu-Ray, that or something equivalent will be necessary for resolutions greater than 720x480/576. Might as well skip DL, in the meantime I'm gunna get my money's worth with my present burner.Pull! Bang! Darn!
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