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  1. My third thread on July 9 explained it. I was peeping thru a hole inside an ivory tower, after seeing so many valuable information and different valid opinions.
    What I meant was the title of your post is misleading. Regardless, I think you mean your first thread on July 9th, your third is something else
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  2. Originally Posted by Bodysurf
    In general, DVD-R media is of higher quality than DVD+R. Pioneer, Maxell, Taiyo-Yuden, TDK and MCC all make great DVD-R media. Only MCC and Taiyo-Yuden (maybe RicohJapan?) make great DVD+R media.
    Pioneer stopped production a long time ago. CMC I believe makes most of TDK's DVD-R media now although with TDK MID code. TDK has also started own production of DVD+R media recently. Maxell makes a few DVD+Rs too, at least CDRInfo has used them in reviews and media with Maxell MID code is in Philips list of approved media.

    Originally Posted by Bodysurf
    Yes, bitsetting exists. NO, it does not make DVD+R as, or more compatible, than DVD-R. "Bitsetting" is a hack or a cludge.
    Call it whatever you want, it's working at that's what's important. Whether DVD-R or DVD+R with DVD-ROM book type is more compatible can be discussed in eternity and it's more or less impossible to prove anything as the difference is so small that you would need to test thousands of DVD players to show anything for certain. I have however seen more references to DVD+R with DVD-ROM book type working when DVD-R doesn't than the opposite.

    Originally Posted by Bodysurf
    We will see.

    I have no agenda here. My Pioneer DVR-A07 burns DVD+/-R +/-RW. The top quality DVD-R media is of higher quality than its DVD+R counterpart. DVD+RW works better than DVD-RW.
    Then you have a Pioneer, certainly the most optimized burner for DVD-R. I doubt that for example TY -R media is generally better than the +R if you compare the burn quality on different burners.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    By this same logic I could say Nazi Germany was a great place ... and if you disagree, it means you simply do not understand it.
    And then by Godwin's rule the thread should be closed
    "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made in a thread the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress." http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Godwin's%20rule
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    Well, times have changed since Godwin made up his 'rule'. Who cares about Nazis if theyre nothing more or less than, say, Vikings, or Holy Inquisition (or was it Saint Inquisition?) - just a bunch of bad dudes mentioned in a history. Not this generation anyway.

    That DVD+R with DVD-ROM booksetting *again* used as argument here? Holy crap!
    If standalone player's *laser* cant read DVD+R, it still won't read it even if you set its book-type to DVD-ROM or CDDA or whatever you want. Example: old Apex AD-600 (or 500) model.
    If your standalone player can't read DVD+R as "DVD+R", but it will read it as a fake "DVD-ROM" then you just have a shitty firmware on this player, nothing more.
    Hardware deficiency of one player cant be solved by simple book type setting LOL!
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    Originally Posted by tompika
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    This is because it already conforms to DVD-ROM specs.
    And that comes from the creator of nomorecoasters.com
    Okay, poor wording.

    Let me try again. The DVD-R booktype, being made by the DVD Forum, is already as close to the DVD-ROM booktype as it can get. Changing it to DVD-ROM should not serve any other real function. I can only assume this is because the Forum has all the info they need.

    Now, DVD+R, being rogue and all, may not have that info. DVD+R booktype is not as close, at least judging by compatibility issues, ESPECIALLY under the reasoning that DVD-ROM booktype fixed some issues (although altering booktype still does NOT make the DVD+R format more compatible than the DVD-R format, but it closes up a bit of the gap).
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  5. Originally Posted by DereX888
    That DVD+R with DVD-ROM booksetting *again* used as argument here? Holy crap!
    If standalone player's *laser* cant read DVD+R, it still won't read it even if you set its book-type to DVD-ROM or CDDA or whatever you want. Example: old Apex AD-600 (or 500) model.
    Uhm if the player's "laser" can't read any burned DVD+R the chances for it to read a DVD-R is slim to none. A DVD+R and DVD-R have the same general physical properties when burnt, there are much bigger differences between dyes of different manufacturers within one format than between one manufacturers +R and -R dye.
    BTW check the DVD player section and you'll see reports that confirms that the AD-500/600 plays DVD+R with DVD-ROM book type.

    lordsmurf: Sorry but from your explanations I take it you still have no clue what book type really is... "Being close to DVD-ROM book type"

    EOD for me.
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    Originally Posted by -jsl-
    lordsmurf: Sorry but from your explanations I take it you still have no clue what book type really is... "Being close to DVD-ROM book type"
    Then explain booktype better.
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Originally Posted by -jsl-
    lordsmurf: Sorry but from your explanations I take it you still have no clue what book type really is... "Being close to DVD-ROM book type"
    Then explain booktype better.
    *Rowr*
    Hello.
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  8. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    More like "I see your 10, and raise you 20"
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  9. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Originally Posted by tompika
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    This is because it already conforms to DVD-ROM specs.
    And that comes from the creator of nomorecoasters.com
    Okay, poor wording.

    Let me try again. The DVD-R booktype, being made by the DVD Forum, is already as close to the DVD-ROM booktype as it can get. Changing it to DVD-ROM should not serve any other real function. I can only assume this is because the Forum has all the info they need.
    Am I the only one who doesn't get this?
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    Again, if you can do beter.... THEN DO IT..
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  11. Just in case one does not find the glossary.


    Booktype is an info in the lead-in section on every DVD disc that tells the player which kind of media is loaded so it can correctly choose the reading strategy.

    DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD+R DL

    Pressed medias have DVD-ROM booktype.

    DVD-R's have DVD-R booktype, DVD-RW discs have DVD-RW booktype pre-written on them


    PS: I don't give a **** which company wins I burn both kind



    The DVD-R booktype, being made by the DVD Forum, is already as close to the DVD-ROM booktype as it can get.
    This sentence just doesn't make any sense
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  12. NuTec and Nic Wilson (DVDInfoPRO) invented a kinda bitsetting for DVD-R/W by burning one more session on them.

    It does not have much benefit but I seem to recall an Xbox owner who couldn't play DVD-R before.
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    Looking at the definition of Bitsetting in the Glossary, I only see mention of DVD-ROM, DVD+R and DVD+RW booktypes.

    https://www.videohelp.com/glossary?B#BitSetting

    I'd hazard a guess that DVD-R/RW wouldn't fit the DVD+R or DVD+RW booktype. With only one option left (unless the mods need to update the Glossary with more information for a complete definition), what is there to change on a DVD-R/RW?
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  14. Originally Posted by ViRaL1
    Looking at the definition of Bitsetting in the Glossary, I only see mention of DVD-ROM, DVD+R and DVD+RW booktypes.

    https://www.videohelp.com/glossary?B#BitSetting

    I'd hazard a guess that DVD-R/RW wouldn't fit the DVD+R or DVD+RW booktype. With only one option left (unless the mods need to update the Glossary with more information for a complete definition), what is there to change on a DVD-R/RW?
    DVDInfo PRO allows any booktype to be burned.

    I have burned several DVD+R with DVD-R and DVD-RW booktype and DVD+RW with DVD-R and DVD-RW booktype and found only one notebook DVD ROM combo that refused to play DVD+RW burned as DVD-R
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    I think it's really immaterial. Both formats have been around for long enough and are likely here to stay, unless they screw up in the future or are both replaced by an even better format such as TGPO +- or the like.
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    I don't doubt that it can be done. I understand that by bitsetting a "+" you stand to gain compatibility with players that only recognize DVD-ROM. What I'm not understanding is what you gain by being able to set the book type on "-".
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    Originally Posted by tompika
    so it can correctly choose the reading strategy.
    DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD+R DL
    Pressed medias have DVD-ROM booktype.
    DVD-R's have DVD-R booktype, DVD-RW discs have DVD-RW booktype pre-written on them
    The reading strategy of the DVD-R and DVD-ROM are close relatives. This is possibly why the compatibility rating of DVD-R is so high.

    In contrast, the DVD+R booktype is so far different than DVD-ROM that changing it to something more similar allows the player to work better with the disc.

    I don't see why you say this does not make sense.

    Maybe this is not the way it is, but this is how it was explained to me by some firmware dabblers, and it makes very logical sense.
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    Originally Posted by ViRaL1
    I don't doubt that it can be done. I understand that by bitsetting a "+" you stand to gain compatibility with players that only recognize DVD-ROM. What I'm not understanding is what you gain by being able to set the book type on "-".
    Maybe for compatibiltiy of some "-" disc will not play inside some XBOX DVD-ROM drives. I am guessing, maybe Tompika would supplement.
    Sam Ontario
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    Originally Posted by Sam Ontario
    Originally Posted by ViRaL1
    I don't doubt that it can be done. I understand that by bitsetting a "+" you stand to gain compatibility with players that only recognize DVD-ROM. What I'm not understanding is what you gain by being able to set the book type on "-".
    Maybe for compatibiltiy of some "-" disc will not play inside some XBOX DVD-ROM drives. I am guessing, maybe Tompika would supplement.
    With XBOX, you must pay attention to the file structure when burning. I have one. I know. It can be a real b@#$%
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  20. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    I don't see why you say this does not make sense.
    Just one more comment from me in this thread and I'll try to explain why it doesn't make sense:
    The first byte of the physical format information (the data that describes the basic physical properties of the disc) specifies the version number and disc category. The latter is also known as the book type. Example:
    DVD-ROM disc category: 0000
    DVD-R disc category: 0010
    DVD-RW disc category: 0011
    DVD+R disc category: 1010
    DVD+RW disc category: 1001
    So “bitsetting” a DVD+R to DVD-ROM means that instead of setting the disc category to 1010 you set all four bits to zeros. And saying that DVD-R book type is “close” to DVD-ROM book type is like saying a binary 1 is close to a binary 0, simply stupid.

    So why does disc category/book type affect the compatibility then?
    Well some “stupid” DVD players are programmed to only play certain disc categories. I.e. insert a disc with a disc category that it’s not programmed to play and it will refuse to play it without even trying. As DVD-R is an older format than DVD+R more old DVD players will naturally recognize the DVD-R disc category than the DVD+R disc category as they're programmed to do so. Some manufacturers have also refused to make their DVD players recognize the DVD+R format even long after the format’s introduction (e.g. Panasonic, Toshiba…) because of the so called format war. Setting the disc category/book type to DVD-ROM instead of DVD+R will in most cases fool these players to accept the disc.
    Because there are a few players that only recognize the DVD-ROM book type and no other book types there are even some players that accept a DVD+R with DVD-ROM book type but not a DVD-R. But for various reasons the opposite can also be true for a few players. In both cases it affects very few players though and therefore the difference in compatibility between DVD-R and DVD+R with DVD-ROM book type is negligible and arguing about what’s more compatible will lead nowhere as no one can really prove anything. The quality of the disc, the used burner or even the software is more important for the compatibility than the format here imho.
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    Well said JSL,

    I see there are still those around who haven't tried "bit-setting" +R discs, despite the majority of burners now supporting this feature (hacked firmware or otherwise). It's been a long hard road convincing many of the undeniable benefit of the DVD-Rom book type. Rather than try burning one the shutters come up and silly arguments take place.

    It will be interesting in the current situation of double-layer +R media and the DVD-Rom book being used as a widespread fix for players. After all 12 months ago no player could know of a DVD+R DL book-type. Simply bit-set to DVD-Rom and away it goes.

    What pray tell can be done for DVD-R DL and a pre-written lead-in of that book-type. Me thinks Pio are in for a re-write of their much vaunted standards if and when such media materialises.

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    See a light in a dark cloud. Thanks, JSL.
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