JVC DR-M10S - Washed out recordings?

[ejai]

Yeah, I was quite upset by that too. I don't understand why the admins don't just ban the offending users instead of locking the entire thread.

I agree. Becareful what you say they might close this one as well (Ha, Ha ...only kiddin').

[ejai]

Turn off "enhancing" features in PowerDVD/WinDVD

I have the settings at default no color or brightness enhancements. Whenever I play a professional dvd the darks are dark and the light areas are well lite. Yet when I play the JVC created disk the video is noticeably lighter, I have to add more contrast or set the brightness control to darker to get the proper video output that I saw on the store bought dvd.

I was wondering Lordsmurf if you have also noticed the difference.

[lordsmurf]

I spent a lot of time, but my PC matches my TV.
I also have my printer to match my scanner.

[tommyoz]

Yeah, I hate that the other thread was locked because of this person. I enjoyed the exchange of info and ideas.

Yeah, I was quite upset by that too. I don't understand why the admins don't just ban the offending users instead of locking the entire thread.

I think the problem with that other thread was that everyone else was fighting nysoftwareman back. Yes he did start the whole thing but if we would have just ignored him (which is easier said than done) he would have went away. It was becoming a shouting match.

If he would have kept it up after ignoring him, then we would've had reason to request a ban. Unless his comments are helpful I think we should just ignor him from now on.

[ejai]

I agree misery loves company, but I don't think the moderator gave enough warning. I'm sure if the moderator had stated that the thread would of been closed with the arguing continued most of us would of ignored him.

I guess what I am saying is that we feel that we were punished without warning. but life goes on....

[waltchan]

I think I know why nysoftwareman posts some insane reviews....(this is just a guess)

Maybe he hates JVC because of poor reliability. While JVC tends to be on the high-quality side, JVC often produce products that are low in quality, but not all the time. Their stereo system sometimes have CD changers that refuse to open. Their DVD players can be cheap junk sometimes. My university dorm had a JVC DVD player one time, and it quit working in only 3 short months. Their new VCRs suffer from poor reliability and are cheap junk. So, if he purchased a new JVC SVHS VCR, it probably only last no more than one year. My local repairman said to me that he service more newer JVC VCRs than any other brand. JVC also seems to have some problem with their camcorders. Their VHS and Mini DV camcorders sometimes only last for one year before they suffer some mechanical and electrical problem. JVC's customer service actually do not stand behind their products most of the time, even if the product is still in warranty. I remember several people make a joke about JVC as the "Junkie Video Company." I definitely bet that "nysoftwarman" owns one of these four trouble-prone JVC products, and he was probably upset when it broke. Where do I find all that, I read the reviews in amazon.com.

The best JVC product that I know is their televisions. Very good reliability.




Walt(er) Chan

[lordsmurf]

Only the ultra-cheap products are bad, but that can be said of any company. The HR-S2901 is a piece of crap. The HR-S3800 is alright, but may have some issues after 1-2 years.

Once you buy some real products, that cost more than 2 cents, you'll get the quality. Again, same for any company, but JVC does made superior video products.

User error is the largest problems. Amazon feedback is useless. Most of those people are mindless. As soon as you said "my dorm" the words "some drunken fool broke it" popped into my head.

[gshelley61]

In the broadcast industry we use all kinds of professional products from JVC, Panasonic, and Sony that are of outstanding quality and built to run thousands of hours without breaking down or performing out of spec.

All three of those companies make low-end consumer gear that is probably cheap junk. They build and market some decent mid-level and high-end equipment, too. So, what's the point?

Posting ridiculous and offensive comments adds nothing to the discourse here and is a waste of everyone's time, regardless of the reason.

[tag]

....Their new VCRs suffer from poor reliability and are cheap junk.....

Not mine. I have a "LordSmurf Certified POS VCR"; the JVC S2902. I haven't had it all that long but, to be perfectly blunt, I've beat the living crap out the thing yet it's still ticking..........

[spiderman2k1]

"lordsmurf" is right JVC does make cheep stuff but also make high end stuff they make VCR's today that go for $1000.00 and up. And those are the best you can get.

[tommyoz]

I think I know why nysoftwareman posts some insane reviews....(this is just a guess)

I'm sorry, his actions cannot be justified.

[spiderman2k1]

TOSHIBA have a black level problem.

[Sam Ontario]

All my JVC products almost never breakdown, maybe just lucks. I was seriously considering buying the JVC DRM10SL last month, but I did not, maybe the DVD recorders are still in their premature stage, that I am not confident with any of them yet. I will wait for at least another year before I consider to replace my Philips DVDR75.

[sstinman]

Can anyone help find the difference between a JVC DR-M10S and SL?

I've seen comflicting specs.

[lordsmurf]

Can anyone help find the difference between a JVC DR-M10S and SL?

I've seen comflicting specs.

There isn't one.

My machine says "DR-M10SL"
My book said "DRM10S"
The box said "DR-M10SUS"

[Dogwizard]

OK - I've actually got an on-topic question. Here is a little background:
-long time A/V enthusiast
-ATI Capture/PC author fan
-Just bought a JVC DR-M10S
-Using JVC 5901 SVHS for VHS capture
-Just added an 8710 which will I hope help to solve the following problem:

I wanted a faster way to transfer my old VHS tapes to DVD. I read everything here and at AVSForum and settled on the JVC as the way to go for now. I have done several captures (on the JVC) of several tapes using SVID and Composite (and 2 separate VCRs) but the video seems to be VERY washed out when played on a Panasonic 51" HDTV. The original source tape is in very good condition and when played on the same VCRs direct to the Panny, the picture quality is great. While I understand that the filters on the JVC may change the contrast, this looks to be more than that. The effect is less pronounced on a standard CRT, but is still there. I am hoping that the 8710 I just picked up will allow me to tweak the picture to couter the effect, but is this normal for this (or any) recorder? If I need to modify the video feed for every tape and test record for PQ, this may not be the timesaver that I was hoping that it would be. Is there any way to defeat the modifiers on the JVC and would it be advisable to do so? With mediocre source quality I can see the advantage, but with decent source material, it looks to me like it may do more harm than good.......

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
-Dogwizard

[ejai]

I have done several captures (on the JVC) of several tapes using SVID and Composite (and 2 separate VCRs) but the video seems to be VERY washed out when played on a Panasonic 51" HDTV. The original source tape is in very good condition and when played on the same VCRs direct to the Panny, the picture quality is great. While I understand that the filters on the JVC may change the contrast, this looks to be more than that. The effect is less pronounced on a standard CRT, but is still there. I am hoping that the 8710 I just picked up will allow me to tweak the picture to couter the effect, but is this normal for this (or any) recorder? If I need to modify the video feed for every tape and test record for PQ, this may not be the timesaver that I was hoping that it would be. Is there any way to defeat the modifiers on the JVC and would it be advisable to do so? With mediocre source quality I can see the advantage, but with decent source material, it looks to me like it may do more harm than good.......

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
-Dogwizard

Well I feel the same way you do. I noticed this as well and mentioned it on an earlier post. The JVC makes a great picture but it tends to lighten the image. I had to adjust my televisions to make up for the change in brightness and contrast. I noticed it mostly on my computer. I have the AVT-8710 and used it on several recordings using the JVC as my recorder, (I own the Pansonic E30, E50 and JVC M10SL).

The AVT-8710 did help with bringing down the brightness and adding contrast after I played around with it for a while. I don't use the AVT a lot because I noticed that the signal is not as clean as when the vcr is plugged directly into the dvd recorder. I'm sorry to say my JVC is no longer working properly and I had to take it in for service (after 1 month of heavy recording). I now have to use the Panasonic E50 again and the brightness problem no longer exists. What I did like about the JVC is that it did well with noise artifacts in dark areas, the video was smoother and the JVC did a better job of hiding macro blocks in videos longer than 2hrs.

I also noticed that the strong colors such as deep reds showed more block noise on the JVC copy and were smooth on the Panasonic video. I only started noticing this once my JVC broke down and I had to create the same video piece over using the Panasonic.

I find that the JVC has great quality overall but in certain area the Panasonic looks better. I also noticed that he filters used by the JVC tend to smooth the video out more that the Panasonic recorder. This is ok if you aren't concern in creating very sharp video images.

I also noticed on captures that are 1 hour to 2 hours long the Panasonic does a very good job, but on longer captures the JVC is king.

When my JVC gets fixed I will continue to use it over the Panasonic.

Just my opinion

[gshelley61]

OK - I've actually got an on-topic question. Here is a little background:
-long time A/V enthusiast
-ATI Capture/PC author fan
-Just bought a JVC DR-M10S
-Using JVC 5901 SVHS for VHS capture
-Just added an 8710 which will I hope help to solve the following problem:

I wanted a faster way to transfer my old VHS tapes to DVD. I read everything here and at AVSForum and settled on the JVC as the way to go for now. I have done several captures (on the JVC) of several tapes using SVID and Composite (and 2 separate VCRs) but the video seems to be VERY washed out when played on a Panasonic 51" HDTV. The original source tape is in very good condition and when played on the same VCRs direct to the Panny, the picture quality is great. While I understand that the filters on the JVC may change the contrast, this looks to be more than that. The effect is less pronounced on a standard CRT, but is still there. I am hoping that the 8710 I just picked up will allow me to tweak the picture to couter the effect, but is this normal for this (or any) recorder? If I need to modify the video feed for every tape and test record for PQ, this may not be the timesaver that I was hoping that it would be. Is there any way to defeat the modifiers on the JVC and would it be advisable to do so? With mediocre source quality I can see the advantage, but with decent source material, it looks to me like it may do more harm than good.......

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
-Dogwizard

Here's a couple of things to consider...

Different brands and models of video gear (and the different output types on each individual unit) will deliver slightly different levels of color, brightness, contrast, etc. They are not all somehow perfectly calibrated to the accepted standard. Even very high-end professional broadcast equipment has adjustments to compensate for these small differences.

The S-video output of my DR-M10SL is hooked directly up to my Sony 14" CRT project monitor, which has been adjusted carefully for the playback output of the JVC recorder using DVD test patterns. I monitor the source video (using the line in) before recording and the DVD playback result after recording. I honestly can see almost no brightness or contrast difference at all between what goes in and what the recording looks like.

[Dogwizard]

Thanks guys...

I guess I need to share more information. These were the first real experiments with the JVC. I initially recorded some cable broadcasts and was rather disappointed with the "washed-out" effect. I decided that I would try some direct video feeds and see how that fared. Not that much better. I know that video outputs from device to device and even on the same device can output differently, that was why I tried both SVID and composite on two separate VCRs using the same source material. If I run them into my ATI (standard settings, nothing tweaked) - no wash-out. The same if I go direct to the Panny. As soon as the JVC is in the mix, everything looks faded. My standard A/V moniter is a Hitachi 21" Superscan that has been calibrated to within an inch of its life. My Panasonic has been calibrated by both myself with Video Essentials and fine-tuned by a friend of mine who is ISF certified with full gear. The problem is that I don't watch movies on my A/V monitor, I watch them on the big screen which is where this problem becomes badly apparent. I am going to play with the AVT-8710 tonight and see what I can do but any more input would be greatly appreciated.....

Thanks again, I keep seeing your names crop up in the helpful posts and I for one appreciate it....

Dogwizard

P.S. LordSmurf, what are your $.02 ??? (if you're out there)

[gshelley61]

Could you be a little more specific as to how everything is connected? I mean, are you recording on the JVC then playing back the finalized DVD on another player (the one that your Panasonic display was calibrated for) or with your computer software player? Or, are you playing back the recorded DVD with the JVC hooked up to a standard TV/monitor?

Have you tried hooking the JVC directly up to your Panasonic big screen and see how it looks when playing a commercial DVD? In fact, throw in your Video Essentials DVD to see if the JVC is sending a brighter, less saturated signal than your current DVD player does.

When I play back my recorded DVD's with my computer software player, they do look a bit light and somewhat washed out. When they are played back on the JVC recorder, they look exactly like what I fed into it - perfectly fine. And when I play the discs with my Bravo D1 on my Samsung DLP they look great, too.

[zorankarapancev]

I don’t own this JVC DVD recorder and I didn’t have chance to test it, but reading all this comments from different users about obvious “brightness problem”(that everybody attempt to fix it in a different way) positively indicates that now we are dealing with “The White Level Bug”!

[gshelley61]

I just thought of a way to test this possible problem. I'll send a direct video source to my AverMedia video card, capture a short AVI and then save a sample frame from the AVI with VirtualDub. Then, I'll run the same source through the JVC recorder out to the AverMedia card (without recording yet), capture another short AVI and save a test frame. Finally, I'll actually record the source to a DVD-RW, play it back on the JVC to the AverMedia card, capture a third AVI and get yet another test frame.

I'll post all three sample frames, and we'll be able to compare the original source, the source running through the video input and output of the JVC, and the MPEG2 recording made of the source by the JVC. I'll post all three samples. Perhaps there is a big difference... now I'm starting to wonder, too.

[tag]

......reading all this comments from different users about obvious “brightness problem”.......

You clearly didn't read ALL of the comments. A few M10S owners did mention their recordings appeared "brighter" or somewhat "washed out" but others have observed no such effect.

I, for one, have noticed no "washed out" or brightness problem" and I've A/B'd my recordings and source material damned near to death.

[lordsmurf]

Wow... lot of stuff to read.

Anyway, I see no such brightness. In fact, I like the JVC mainly because it DOES NOT alter the color or contrast/brightness at all. It maintains it, something I have NEVER seen on the 15-25 recorders I've had to date.

Of course, I'm doing this:

JVC 9800 -> TBC-1000 -> JVC

All s-video.

However, I've also done JVC 3800 -> JVC front input A/V
coax in from cable line
and Sharp VHS -> JVC front input A/V

Each time, looked perfect.

You can rest assured that if I saw anything I didn't like, I'd be jumping up and down screaming about it.

The LiteOn and Apex shown the issues from time to time, with brighter video, but normally it was from damaged source. Never on the JVC.

The Panasonic and Pioneer both tended to mute colors a bit, and the IRE bug is still in Panasonic, though to a much lesser extent than the early days. Some of this is actually quite complex as to "why" it happens. Would take me all day to write it out.

Your wires and VCR can have a HUGE impact on this. I mostly use MONSTER only. They really ARE that good.

[gshelley61]

OK, here we go...

Pioneer laserdisc player, s-video out direct to AverMedia card. Captured with VirtualVCR at 720x480, all settings at default. Sample frame taken with VirtualDub. Resized to 640x480 and saved to .jpg with Infranview.




Same scene, laserdisc s-video out run through the input and output of the JVC DR-M10SL (same method for all other steps):



Actual JVC DVD-RW recording, s-video output:


Almost no difference at all. Except the DVD-RW recording/playback frame has less video noise and is slightly softer. I hope this puts to rest the "washed out recording" issue. It's just not happening with my unit.

[ejai]

When I first received my JVC I took a couple of samples to my office that I made for my Technical Services people to check out. They told me that my copies look great but they were a bit light. All of their equipment is for professional video work and they also saw the difference. When they showed me the difference I thought there might have been something wrong with the settings on their monitors.

They did say that the difference was slight in some areas and very noticeable in others. I gave them a copy of the same video only this time I made the copy using the Pana E50 they told me that the contrast was fine.

That was when I made my first accusation about the brightness issue. After further testing on my own I saw the difference really good. I did make one finding and that is if you have a video source where the black areas are very strong then the JVC will be much closer to black. Yet if the video is dark but not black in dark areas the JVC gives off a much softer tone.

Like I said before when I first noticed it I was on my computer. All my store bought and Pana E50 disks played perfectly when viewed, but the JVC files were a bit lighter causing me to adjust the brightness control.

As I said before I am very picky, the eyes do not lie. Once I use the AVT-8710 to control the lightness then I get a much better darkness tone. The JVC makes excellent copies but they a bit light.

[ejai]

As I said earlier the source seems to make a difference. If you use dvd or a source that has a strong black signal then the JVC picks it up much better.

Some older vhs tapes have weak signals and the black areas are no longer true black causing the JVC to create a more moderate black area. I have made copies of tapes that show true to the originals and then there are some that are lighter than the original. It seems to depend on the blackness level in the video.

My other recorders have no problem with this at all.

[gshelley61]

Maybe. I've mostly been transferring laserdiscs to DVD and have not run in to the light recordings. Laserdiscs tend to have decent color and black levels, so perhaps what you are thinking is right.

The home videos I recorded were old 8mm, and I ran those through the Sima to enhance them a bit. No washed out recordings then, either.

[EricS]

gshelley61 -

How about trying this - calibrate your big screen with the video essentials dvd, then hook up the dvd player with the video essentials dvd to the s-vid inputs of the JVC and record, then looks at the finalized dvd using the original dvd player/screen and see if it still looks calibrated.

Maybe that doesn't any sense, but it popped into my head when I was reading these posts.

E

[gshelley61]

gshelley61 -

How about trying this - calibrate your big screen with the video essentials dvd, then hook up the dvd player with the video essentials dvd to the s-vid inputs of the JVC and record, then looks at the finalized dvd using the original dvd player/screen and see if it still looks calibrated.

Maybe that doesn't any sense, but it popped into my head when I was reading these posts.

E

Hmm... that gives me an idea. Thanks!