How to make a DVD-VCD??

[mjvgiese]

I have some DivX .avi clips that I'm wanting to put onto DVD-R. But I want to make them as VCD's and then put them onto a DVD-R, so I can fit a whole bunch on it. I believe this is known as "DVD-VCD", although I haven't found a whole lot of talk about it here.

Basically I just need to know how to make the DivX clips so they can go onto a DVD-R in the "DVD-VCD" format, or whatever it's called. (lol.) I've done some research, and from what I can tell, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, what I need to do is encode these files just like a regular VCD, but encode using 48000Hz audio instead of the 44100Hz audio, right?

My DivX .avi files are all the same, DivX 5.1.1 Codec, and the audio is 44100Hz on them. Can I just use VirtualDub to change the audio to 48000Hz and save a WAV of it, and then encode with TMPGEnc with the VCD template and just use the 48000Hz WAV I created with VirtualDub?

[johns0]

You can use the vcd template but make sure you change the gop setting in settings/gop structure to max number of frames in a GOP 18(ntsc) or 15(pal).

[steveryan]

Sounds fine to me, all you need to do then is import your mpegs into TMPGEnc DVD Author and you're all set.

[andyp1]

https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=26&howtoselect=3;29#26

[mjvgiese]

Wow, thanks for such fast replies!!!!!

I guess I can start my project now, thanks again!!!!!

[mjvgiese]

Ok, I have one more question. I just encoded the first VCD for my DVD-VCD, but I noticed that TMPG encoded with the "Rate Control Mode" set at "Constant Bitrate (CBR)". I think TMPG usually encodes my stuff with VBR.......no, wait, I just went into TMPG and checked it out, I guess it ususally does encode my stuff with CBR. I read somewhere on this forum today that VBR produces better quality, though. Is this true? Would I be better off to use "2-pass VBR" or something else instead of CBR?

Just curious, no big deal, I guess I've been using CBR all this time and didn't even know it. LOL!

[ZippyP.]

I read somewhere on this forum today that VBR produces better quality, though. Is this true? Would I be better off to use "2-pass VBR" or something else instead of CBR?

If space is at a premium and you want to get as much as possible on a disk, then that is when VBR is the preferred choice. VBR saves bitrate from low motion scenes and gives higher rates to high motion scenes. This allows a lower overall average bitrate (therefore smaller file size) while preserving the quality.

If space is not a concern then a high bitrate CBR encode cannot be improved upon. There is a point beyond which increasing the bitrate will have no discernable effect, however.

2-pass VBR will take twice as long to encode. So, it's your choice. What bitrate are you using to make your VCD on DVD? If you're using the VCD standard of 1150 kbps then I suggest you raise it to 1500 and you should see better quality. To keep the same amount on a disk use VBR with 1150 average, 100 minimum and 2500 maximum.

[mjvgiese]

Space is a bit of a concern, but not too terribly bad. I was going to use the standard bitrate of 1150, but, if I could get better quality....... would raising the bitrate from 1150 to 1500 make it a non-standard VCD, so some players might not be able to handle it? My main player is an Apex AD-600, and while it is older, it seems to handle pretty much anything I throw at it... (except for a weird problem it has with a couple of the Stargate SG-1 Season 5 dvd's, but I won't get into that right now.... ) so it could probably handle a non-standard VCD, if that is the case.

[erikl]

I have a bunch of poor quality video clips on my hard drive, that I would like to be able to play on my stand-alone player. Is DVD-VCD a good alternative for me? It feels like a waste of DVDs to burn them as standard video-DVDs, since the quality is so bad.

[bugster]

As far as I am aware, when you use mpeg-1 on a DVD, it has to be CBR to be DVD compliant. What you could do is use mpeg-2 at the same resolution as VCD and encode with VBR or CQ modes. This should give better filesizes and still be DVD compliant.

If using CQ, remember to set the min and mix bitrates. I suggest min 400, max ~1800 for a good compromise of quality V filesize.

[mjvgiese]

Ok, I'm starting to get a little bit confused. I went ahead and encoded 3 of my files overnight. I encoded with the 23.976 VCD template, using 48000Hz audio. I went into TMPG DVD Author just to check it out, and get a feel for it this morning, but TMPG DVD Author won't take my encoded files, it tells me that it can only accept files that are 25fps or 29.976fps.

My original files are 23.977fps, so I'm not really sure I want to encode them to 29.976fps just so TMPG DVD Author will accept them. I read on a different post today, somebody was trying to do just what I'm doing, but everybody told them to encode to mpeg2. Now I don't have a problem doing that, but I need the filesize to stay the same as my VCD encodes.

Basically I want to just put a bunch of VCD's on a DVD-R, and VCD quality is fine, I'm not going to be real picky about the quality. How should I encode so TMPG DVD Author will accept my files?

[Baldrick]

convert to DVD! why convert to VCD??? use low resolution and low bitrates and you will get same quality as vcd. 352x240 mpeg2 24fps with 3:2 pulldown.

352x240 mpeg1 24 fps is not supported.

[Baldrick]

As far as I am aware, when you use mpeg-1 on a DVD, it has to be CBR to be DVD compliant. What you could do is use mpeg-2 at the same resolution as VCD and encode with VBR or CQ modes. This should give better filesizes and still be DVD compliant.

If using CQ, remember to set the min and mix bitrates. I suggest min 400, max ~1800 for a good compromise of quality V filesize.

MPEG-1 VBR is allowed. http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.4 .I haven't seen any other source that says that it isn't.

[ZippyP.]

.... would raising the bitrate from 1150 to 1500 make it a non-standard VCD, so some players might not be able to handle it?

Yes, it is a non-standard vcd but you are making a DVD like Baldrick pointed out. The rules for VCD do not apply to DVD.

[DereX888]

Yes, no problems with MPEG-1 VBR on DVDs. And usually you can save lots of space by using VBR (but it depends on the type of movie - if there is alot of action every second, i.e. "Matrix" style movie - then you may not save any space at all).
To have it good quality in VBR mode and small in size you need to encode it at least 2-pass. Any single pass VBR methods can't really do much, i.e. setting too high CQ will result in much larger file than it is really needed to be compared with multipass VBR.

Also in general I would do it all with MPEG-2 instead of MPEG-1 (using same bitrates, same resolutions etc if you need to) since MPEG-2 is far superior to MPEG-1 in final quality, and since youre going to do real encoding and put it on DVD - thus IMHO MPEG-2 should be your only choice.

[nocarebear]

2-pass VBR will take twice as long to encode. So, it's your choice. What bitrate are you using to make your VCD on DVD? If you're using the VCD standard of 1150 kbps then I suggest you raise it to 1500 and you should see better quality. To keep the same amount on a disk use VBR with 1150 average, 100 minimum and 2500 maximum.

This is the one thing that always confused me about VBR. For the most part, the file size will be around as if I used 1150 CBR; however, if the movie has a lot of fast motion, can't that essentially raise the average to 1300 or more?

Lets say I wanted to DVD-->S/VCD. The bitrate calculator gave me an avg of 1500. So then I'll probably put: min=100, avg=1480 (just in case 1500 is too much), max=2200. Because of the fast motion scenes, the encoder will need to use a higher bitrate above 1500 for long periods. So couldn't that actually push average high enough so that the outputted file would be too big to fit on a CD?

[DereX888]

IMO youre wrong. Calculations for average bitrate in multipass are based on max bitrate equal to the maximum bitrate allowed by given format (i.e. SVCD would have max=2560 with audio bitrate 192kbps - less for 224kbps, or more for 160kbps, assuming ofcoz you dont have there more than 1 audio and you dont add any subtitles into the stream).
Therefore if bitrate calc told you to use 1500kbps avg. you should have set your encoder min=100 avg=1500 max=2560
If the movie is a slo-mo for most of it part, probably 2-pass would suffice, if it is long and high-motion packed actioneer flick - you'd need to do a 4pass or more (if the calculated average bitrate came very low, i.e. less than 2000kbps - to avoid potential blockiness in some parts).

[bugster]

Because of the fast motion scenes, the encoder will need to use a higher bitrate above 1500 for long periods. So couldn't that actually push average high enough so that the outputted file would be too big to fit on a CD?

No, the encoder will keep the average pretty damn close to what you configure. If you have a lot of high motion scenes, the bitrate will be spread out between them and the low motion scenes.

[mjvgiese]

All this time I've been working on my DVD. I decided against making the DVD-VCD, and I went with the option to convert to DVD and just use the settings so it would come out VCD quality. Today I finally finished, and burned to a DVD+RW to test, and I guess I'm going to take back what I said and I'm going to be nit-picky about quality...

I put 8 of my files onto the DVD. I encoded them with TMPG, 352x240, 23.976fps with the 3:2 pulldown, 256 bitrate audio, and a CBR bitrate of 1250 for video. I though this would be fine and even a touch better than VCD, since all the VCD's I have are 1150 video bitrate and they look pretty good. But my DVD turned out worse than VCD, the sound wasn't very good, and the video was pretty blocky in spots. So I am going to try again, and I'm going to only put 5 files onto a DVD this time. I've got a few more questions, I don't know if anyone will see them here, but I'm hoping they will.....(I didn't think I should start a new thread for this same project.)

I'm aiming for each file to be about 800MB a piece. (They're all about 45min each.) Would I be better to encode at the 720x480 size, or should I stick with the 352x240? And about the frame rate, (my original files are 23.977fps) is it really alot better to encode at 23.976fps and use the 3:2 pulldown, or should I just encode to 29.97fps? Does one give better quality? The projected file size doesn't seem to change in TMPG no matter what way I set it.....

Oh the joys of being a newbie to DVD burning.....

[ZippyP.]

I'm aiming for each file to be about 800MB a piece. (They're all about 45min each.) Would I be better to encode at the 720x480 size, or should I stick with the 352x240? And about the frame rate, (my original files are 23.977fps) is it really alot better to encode at 23.976fps and use the 3:2 pulldown, or should I just encode to 29.97fps? Does one give better quality? The projected file size doesn't seem to change in TMPG no matter what way I set it.....

To make a file of 800 Mb that is 45 mins in length, the bitrate for video will be 2100 kbps and audio 224. Look up a bitrate calculator in the Tools section. For a 2100 bitrate you can use 352x480 resolution (1/2 DVD), as it's too low for full DVD.

23.976 fps and 29.97 will give exactly the same file size, after all bitrate is bits per second and you still have the same number of seconds. Where you gain is because you have more bits per frame b/c you have less frames. It's the equivalent of a 20% increase in bitrate and it's all for free.

[nocarebear]

Because of the fast motion scenes, the encoder will need to use a higher bitrate above 1500 for long periods. So couldn't that actually push average high enough so that the outputted file would be too big to fit on a CD?

No, the encoder will keep the average pretty damn close to what you configure. If you have a lot of high motion scenes, the bitrate will be spread out between them and the low motion scenes.

More bitrate confusion for me. I successfully authored a CVD disk using VBR of min=150, avg=1650, and max=2100 at 192 for audio. Bitrate calculator gave me an avg bitrate at 1671 but I was paranoid that it won't fit on a CD so I knocked down the average to 1650.

Here's where my confusion sets in. After the MPG file successfully created, I demuxed it using TMPGEnc. With m2v file, I loaded it into bitrate viewer. BV gave me an average bitrate of 1929 and the peak was at 2880. 1929kps is well beyond 1650kps, and yet it was still able to fit on a CD. How is that possible? How can the video file peak at 2880kps when I put the max at 2100? Either the BV is not at all accurate or I am really confused about the usage of VBR.

As I said earlier, it was a successful encode, but I just want to understand it a little bit more.

[ZippyP.]

TMPGEnc is well known for exceeding the maximum settings. As for the average... I trust TMPEnc on that one, after all it came out the right size.