Syringe disposal...

[Cobra]

I was in Oxford with a couple of mates yesterday, and I needed to go for a piss. I went into a public toilet in the city centre, and into a cubicle. I was looking around and I saw a metal box on the wall labelled "Dispose of used syringes here". It was designed so you can't get even a finger down to touch the syringe, so no children will go for it.

I can see how it can be a good thing - a child or unsuspecting member of the public won't get jabbed with a syringe and potentially pick up something terrible like HIV. However, will it encourage druggies to go there and shoot up, maybe even dealers to hang around there as a good place to sell?

Anyone have any thoughts?

Cobra

[VCDHunter]

Will it encorage "druggies" to go there and shoot up ? No doubt. But if you think they'll make a weekly run to the syringe bank ala recyclers you're living in a dream world. Whether the dealers will hang there too is another matter - seems like a big risk, and I'd imagine most of this is far more organised than the press and police would have you believe.

[flaninacupboard]

some people (diabetics) do need regular injections....
but i see what you're saying. it's like giving school kids free condoms - double edged blade

[housepig]

but i see what you're saying. it's like giving school kids free condoms - double edged blade

but quite different edges -

drug use / teen sex - morals edge
needle disposal / STD prevention - public health edge

I wish we could focus on drug use in this country (U.S.) as a public health issue for a decade, instead of a moral / criminal issue, and see what inroads we make.

[VCDHunter]

but i see what you're saying. it's like giving school kids free condoms - double edged blade

but quite different edges -

drug use / teen sex - morals edge
needle disposal / STD prevention - public health edge

I wish we could focus on drug use in this country (U.S.) as a public health issue for a decade, instead of a moral / criminal issue, and see what inroads we make.

If you followed the recent debacle we've had here (UK) on the reclassification of cannabis you'd soon realise there's little chance of that happening.

[Grimey]

Here in Vancouver the city tried an experiment a while ago called a safe injection site. It was for drug addicts to come and shoot up in a safe environment where they won't get diseases or anything. As far as I know it's still going on, and it's somewhat of a success. I don't think it encourages people to beomce drug addicts, but merely provides a place for addicts to be safe.

[housepig]

@grimey - I read some articles about that.

I'll have to find my statistics, but I remember a study that looked at the effects of prohibition on substance abuse, and the percentage of the population that was prone to abuse. the data played out like this:

- there's a hard core of people that will get addicted for any substance.
- crimilization adds to that (the forbidden fruit / temptation factor)
- once something is decriminalized, the usage spikes briefly, then settles back down to pre-prohibitive usage.

they used some statistics from the Prohibition era in the US - basically, before prohibition, 15% of the people studied were regular drinkers. during prohibition, the percentages shot up to 30-40%. after prohibition, legalization sustained it at 25-30% briefly, but a few years later it was back down to 15%. *

and think of the ancillary violence and price gouging that would be rendered obsolete by legal access. think of the money that does not currently enter the tax base because it's being used for underground transactions...

okay, rant over.

( * these are probably not accurate, but the flavor is there. if anyone wants me to dig up my sources, give me a day or two and I'll get citations and actual figures from the studies.)

[Guest]

I dont think the syringe depots would encourage drug use. Especially in their proximity. Addicts may break into them if they were desparate for a needle. Most drug infested areas have ample supplies on the ground.

[Cobra]

Addicts may break into them if they were desparate for a needle.

Not these ones, trust me! They look like they'd survive a nuclear blast, and then some. They must have thought about that whend designing them.

Addicts may break into them if they were desparate for a needle.

It's a crying shame that some people get into a state like that.

Cobra

[Doramius]

Many Casino Bathrooms here have them. They're "supposedly" for diabetics and others who have medical ailments that require an injection or pin prick. Th reason they have them is so they aren't throwing the pins and needles in the trash after they check their blood sugar. Apparently, there have been cases of cleaning crew getting pricked or stabbed through the garbage bags. Also, the needles collected here in NV go to some medical disposal site where they are incinerated and the metal is recycled.

[Guest]

Many Casino Bathrooms here have them. They're "supposedly" for diabetics and others who have medical ailments that require an injection or pin prick. Th reason they have them is so they aren't throwing the pins and needles in the trash after they check their blood sugar. Apparently, there have been cases of cleaning crew getting pricked or stabbed through the garbage bags. Also, the needles collected here in NV go to some medical disposal site where they are incinerated and the metal is recycled.

They are good things. Always want to avoid needle sticks. The rates of infection(HIV) with a dermal stick is like 1 in 200-300 . i had a buddy in med school who got an HIVer's blood in his eye. He immediately flushed it with Betadine. Not a good idea. He couldnt see right for half a day

[Doramius]

Betadine - In the Eye? OW!!!! OW!!!! OW!!!! He's lucky he still has any sight at all in his eye. That stuff is nasty. Did his eye crust over constantly?

EDIT - My eye is still wincing at the thought of it. OW!!!!

[flaninacupboard]

what's betadine?
can you get infected through your eye?

[888888]

I was in Oxford with a couple of mates yesterday, and I needed to go for a piss. I went into a public toilet in the city centre, and into a cubicle. I was looking around and I saw a metal box on the wall labelled "Dispose of used syringes here". It was designed so you can't get even a finger down to touch the syringe, so no children will go for it.

I can see how it can be a good thing - a child or unsuspecting member of the public won't get jabbed with a syringe and potentially pick up something terrible like HIV. However, will it encourage druggies to go there and shoot up, maybe even dealers to hang around there as a good place to sell?

Anyone have any thoughts?

Cobra

I think it will encourage people to dispose of their syringes as much as trash bins encourage people not to litter, there will always be those who will litter their garbage, be it a candy wrapper, or cigarette butt, or syringe. I think it is an ok idea, but I think drug reform is an even better idea, but that discussion will be for politick.org.uk!

[Guest]

what's betadine?
can you get infected through your eye?

Betadine is an iodine antiseptic used for skin cleansing in surgical procedures. Not the stuff you want to put in your eyes

[indolikaa]

I wish we could focus on drug use in this country (U.S.) as a public health issue for a decade, instead of a moral / criminal issue, and see what inroads we make.

Amen. A-*******-men!


People are going shoot up drugs, whether it's legal or not. Prohibition didn't work, and neither has the US drug policy. I suspect if we spent more money on education and less on criminalization, we'd get somewhere.

I've heard about the 'Coffee Houses' in the Netherlands and seem to remember watching a show on the Discovery Civilization channel about it. And I don't remember the 'legalization' of the Mary-Jane weed causing Dutch citizens to go over the deep end and start gunning down elementary school children or anything like that.


A syringe disposal site isn't too bad of an idea, so long as you educate the intended users on its benefits and purpose.

[vitualis]

Realistically, IV drug users are going to shoot up somewhere and often it will be around the place where they get their drugs (which is quite often public toilets/parks anyway). I would very much prefer used needles and syringes to be in a sealed sharps container rather than just lying about the place.

If you are worried about sharps containers "attracting" drug dealers/junkies, then the simple solution is to put them in EVERY public toilet. Then, no single place is more attractive than any other (and as I said before, junkies often shoot up in these places anyway).

As for Betadine, it is quite safe in the eye. It's used often for flushing the eye in eye surgery. Of course, the eye would be anaethetised before its use...

Regards.

[rhegedus]

I can see how it can be a good thing - a child or unsuspecting member of the public won't get jabbed with a syringe and potentially pick up something terrible like HIV. However, will it encourage druggies to go there and shoot up, maybe even dealers to hang around there as a good place to sell?

Needle exchange schemes are operated by many pharmacies - there is no reason to put these boxes in public toilets.

As you say, it will encourage 'shooting up' in them and, knowing what council cleaners are like, won't be emptied for weeks on end leaving many syringes discarded on the floor.

As for Betadine, there are a few different formulations - some are suitable for the eye, some aren't.

[Doramius]

Right out of highschool I worked for a manufacturing plant for a short time. They had these inks that were for printing permanently on certain plastics. The eyewash station had Betadine because water won't clean the ink out. There wash a water wash right next to it to rinse your eyes out. I got a little ink in my eye and I had to go to the eyewash station. After that I was guided to the enfirmary and was there for 6 hours until someone could pick me up as they wouldn't let me drive home. My eye crusted over a few times and each time the nurse would put some kind of oily substance to help get rid of the crust. It felt like she was dumping baby oil or mineral oil on me.

[Cobra]

Doesn't sound very nice - having a crust on your eye.

[flaninacupboard]

what's worse, eye crust or pie crust? Northcat?

[Guest]

I can see how it can be a good thing - a child or unsuspecting member of the public won't get jabbed with a syringe and potentially pick up something terrible like HIV. However, will it encourage druggies to go there and shoot up, maybe even dealers to hang around there as a good place to sell?

Needle exchange schemes are operated by many pharmacies - there is no reason to put these boxes in public toilets.
As you say, it will encourage 'shooting up' in them and, knowing what council cleaners are like, won't be emptied for weeks on end leaving many syringes discarded on the floor.

As for Betadine, there are a few different formulations - some are suitable for the eye, some aren't.

I disaggree Rob. I dont know any pharmacies that promote insulin injections in their stores. Maybe its diffenent in the UK. Alot of these infections are in the belly or buttock region requiring a semi-private place.

[vitualis]

I also disagree with you Rob.

The sort of clientel that the syringe boxes are aimed at aren't really people who require regular insulin and aren't the sort of people who would use a needle exchange at a pharmacy. They are more likely to rob the pharmacy.

Perhaps it is time for people to strip away the facade. These syringe boxes are for IVDU and they are a GOOD harm minimisation strategy to isolate used needles and syringes from the general public.

The question you have to ask is this: are there going to be LESS IV drug users shooting up if there are no public sharps containers? I think that the answer is no. These people are going to shoot up anyway. If at least some of these used needles and syringes are safely stored in a sharps container rather than lying about in the gutter or in the grass, that has to be a good thing.

Regards.

[Doramius]

Well I know the syringe containers here are aimed at medical syringe users, because it states so on the box. Of course that just may be a Federal disclaimer to throw off their real use. I do agree, it's better to have people dropping these things in the box than in a park where my kid plays in. I remember being in middle school (or secondary school for you Euros) and spotting a few needles here and there in the big city school yards. I also was the partner for a diabetic kid in school (which was scary when he had a seizure and you had to clear away things or get in between him and walls or other heavy and hard objects, or sometimes try to pin him down with your arms protecting his head) and he had a container he carried to collect used pins. I really wouldn't enjoy finding those in a park, the hard way. He had to check himself at certain times regardless of where he was, so if we were playing in the schoolyard and he didn't have his little container with him for the used pin, where was he going to put it. Back then, there weren't any public trash cans in the schoolyards. If there were, they were knocked over with contents all over the ground anyway.

[rhegedus]

@ Dr. Gee & Virtualis

The situation in the UK is obviously quite different than elsewhere.

Most pharmacies run needle exchange services, though there doesn't have to be an 'exchange'.

Addicts come in and ask for a 'blue bag'. This contains a few 1ml syringes, some alcohol swabs, some condoms and a hard plastic recepticle to put used syringes into for return to the pharmacy.

The system is anonymous and the 'blue bags' (there other coloured bags depending on the contents) are provided free by the local health authority. The pharmacy must record each transaction (no. of bags given, no. of used bags returned, sex of client and approximate age) and in return gets paid about £1 for each transaction.

I'll try and get some snaps or footage for you when I next do a locum.

There's more info here.

[flaninacupboard]

that's very interesting. never knew about that system. obviously like all truly intelligent directives, the government fails to tell anyone about it.

[Doramius]

Addicts come in and ask for a 'blue bag'. This contains a few 1ml syringes, some alcohol swabs, some condoms and a hard plastic recepticle to put used syringes into for return to the pharmacy.

I wonder if they can start that here. They started the whole 'free condoms in high school' long after I was out. And now you have to be a student of the school to get them.

What about those of us who are Alumni?

I'd like to do a little crop dusting of PT-141 outside of a high school that offers free condoms. :P

[Guest]

In the US these are aimed at diabetics. I see these all over the place- airport,nice resturant,ballpark and casino bathrooms. These are not likely places for people to be shooting. Now one placed in a methadone clinic, that may be a different story.

[Cobra]

The sort of clientel that the syringe boxes are aimed at aren't really people who require regular insulin and aren't the sort of people who would use a needle exchange at a pharmacy. They are more likely to rob the pharmacy.

Agreed.

I must say that I was a little stunned to see that box, but I suppose that highlights my ignorance to what really goes on when the sun goes down...

Cobra

[Doramius]

Anybody else think there should be condom disposal boxes? I think those would actually be in the bad areas of town, but I get sick and tired of chasing my son through a playground and spot a used Trojan laying on the ground. I have to quickly grab my son and put my foot over it so he doesn't pick it up. And then I have to leave it there, because I'm not picking it up with my hands. I also don't want to try and sneak it up on my shoe because I don't want some other persons spooge contaminating parts of my shoe that aren't easily washable. That's just a major NO NO in my book.