Settings to use to fit a 12.5Gb MPEG in a DVD

[alegator]

I have this 3.5 hour video captured from TV program using the ATI AIW 9800 card whic is a 12.5 Gb MPEG2 file. I'm going to use Ulead DVDWorkshop2 to author the DVD (4.7Gb DVD+RW).
What settings should I use in the ULEAD program to fit this video and still obtain the best quality possible?
The settings that can be adjusted are:
- Frame Size (I set 352x288 for PAL standard)
- Audio Format (I set MPEG Audio at 192kbps)
- Percent compression (what should I use?)
- Video Data Rate (what should I use? also, Constant or Variable?)
Thanks for your answer.

[Baldrick]

please try post in correct forum. this is not dvd to dvdr.

calculate the bitrate
www.videohelp.com/calc

[alegator]

Sorry and thanks!

[jimmalenko]

I have this 3.5 hour video captured from TV program using the ATI AIW 9800 card whic is a 12.5 Gb MPEG2 file. I'm going to use Ulead DVDWorkshop2 to author the DVD (4.7Gb DVD+RW).
What settings should I use in the ULEAD program to fit this video and still obtain the best quality possible?
The settings that can be adjusted are:
- Frame Size (I set 352x288 for PAL standard)
- Audio Format (I set MPEG Audio at 192kbps)
- Percent compression (what should I use?)
- Video Data Rate (what should I use? also, Constant or Variable?)
Thanks for your answer.

Firstly let me say that I have never used ULEAD DVDWorkshop2. The suggestions I make should be possible in this program. They are definitely possible in TMPGEnc

The first consideration is bitrate. You want to put 3½ hours on a DVD so you need to calculate the rough bitrates that you will require. There is a bitrate calculator here. By my maths you will need an average of around 2700kbps for your video if you leave your audio at 192kbps.

Given this average of 2700, my recommendation would be to use what is called ½ D1 resolution (352 X 576 for PAL or 352 X 480 for NTSC). Ideally you should probably use a variable bitrate with settings of min 1500, ave 2700, max 4000.

Hopefully you or someone else reading this can translate those settings into DVDWorkshop jargon.

[alegator]

Jimmalenko,
I used the bitrate calculator from DVDrHelp and I get the following:
2601 kbit/s bitrate (max 9570), for 3:35:30 of video and 224 audio bitrate.
Now the issue is, PAL shouldn't be 352x288? Where do you get the 352x576 number? (1/2D1?? What's that?)
Also why variable bitrate? Why not use constant bitrate? And in case I use variable bitrate as you suggest, how do you get the numbers for min, max?
Anyways, I tested Ulead DVD Workshop2 using the above parameters with constant bitrate and at about 60% of the process the encoding stops with error, yet the partial file encoded has 8Gb size! How come??? (I used the setting to generate the DVD files/folders to the hard drive)
And the Tmpgenc program you mention is the Plus or the DVD Author one?
Thanks.

[jimmalenko]

Jimmalenko,
I used the bitrate calculator from DVDrHelp and I get the following:
2601 kbit/s bitrate (max 9570), for 3:35:30 of video and 224 audio bitrate.

Sounds about right. I used 192 for the audio so your figures are spot on

Now the issue is, PAL shouldn't be 352x288? Where do you get the 352x576 number? (1/2D1?? What's that?)

½D1 is a valid MPEG-2 resolution. DVD can be 352 X 288 MPEG-1, 352 X 288 MPEG-2, 352 X 576 MPEG-2, 704 X 576 MPEG-2 or 720X576 MPEG-2. There is more info on this under What is DVD (top left). The reason for doing this is that your bitrate is too low to go at full res (720 X 576), and probably overkill to go at 352 X 288. This one inbetween will provide a better "distribution" of the bitrate if you like, which in turn will result in a better quality output.

Also why variable bitrate? Why not use constant bitrate? And in case I use variable bitrate as you suggest, how do you get the numbers for min, max?

You can use Constant Bitrate, if you like. You'll get better quality if you use variable though. Constant assigns the same number of bits to each frame and is fine for talking head shots and anywhere that there is not much motion. It comes unstuck when there are a lot of motion scenes and it does not have enough bits to adequately capture the pixel changes. Variable will analyse your entire video and work out where it can lower the bitrate without any noticeable quality loss in order to assign these extra bits to spots that do need it, spots that would look blocky or pixelated if using Constant Bitrate. For any motion scenes at the bitrates we are talking about, this is a neccesity.

Anyways, I tested Ulead DVD Workshop2 using the above parameters with constant bitrate and at about 60% of the process the encoding stops with error, yet the partial file encoded has 8Gb size! How come??? (I used the setting to generate the DVD files/folders to the hard drive)

What was the exact wording of the error ? As I said, I haven't used the software you are talking about so I can't help you there.

And the Tmpgenc program you mention is the Plus or the DVD Author one?

TMPGEnc Plus to encode to MPEG-2. TMPGEnc DVD Author to author this MPEG-2 into IFO, BUP and VOB files.

[alegator]

Jimmalenko,
Thanks a lot for your useful and knowledgeable answer. Some further questions/notes:
1) I did read in "What is DVD" the valid resolutions for DVD PAL, yet, how did you determine the optimal resolution to use was D1? What criterion/calculator did you follow?
2) Again, what criterion/calculator do you use to determine the min/ave/max bitrate in the VBR setting that you suggest? (155,2700,4000)
3) I tested authoring a DVD with a CBR of 2600 and resolution of 720x576 and using TmpgEnc and Tmpgenc DVD Author, and finally Nero to burn the image. As you predicted, motion parts of the video (a tennis match) were very pixelated. I will try VBR and let you know the comparison.
4) The reencoding using Tmpgenc was very long for CBR (it took about 11 hours). I assume that VBR encoding will be even longer, right?
5) I would also guess that Ulead DVD Workshop2 takes shortes time than Tmpgenc and also more convenient as it does the whole process in one step, yet I have not figured out yet how to adjust settings correctly (the language used in the menu templates is the same as Tmpgenc, yet it renders a huge oversized file).
Thanks again.

[flaninacupboard]

Jimmalenko,
Thanks a lot for your useful and knowledgeable answer. Some further questions/notes:
1) I did read in "What is DVD" the valid resolutions for DVD PAL, yet, how did you determine the optimal resolution to use was D1? What criterion/calculator did you follow?

Full D1 (720x576) looks fantastic at 6mbps or higher, acceptable at 4mbps. Half D1 (352x576) looks excellent at 4mbps, very good at about 3mbps, ok at 2mbps and poor at 1.5mbps or lower. VCD reolution (352x288) looks good at 2mbps, acceptable about 1.2 mbps and crap below that. i think that's a pretty normal layout of what users on this site will reccomend. some people have their own preferences, but the majority will agree with those figures.

2) Again, what criterion/calculator do you use to determine the min/ave/max bitrate in the VBR setting that you suggest? (155,2700,4000)

the average is easy. capacity of disc in kilobits, divided by length of movie in seconds, minus the audio bitrate gives you your average. max will generally be reccomended as 9mbps for D1, 4-5mbps for half D1, and 3mbps for VCD resolution. minimum can be 0, some people set it higher - totally personal preference on that one. i use 0.

3) I tested authoring a DVD with a CBR of 2600 and resolution of 720x576 and using TmpgEnc and Tmpgenc DVD Author, and finally Nero to burn the image. As you predicted, motion parts of the video (a tennis match) were very pixelated. I will try VBR and let you know the comparison.

even using VBR 2700 on 720x576 is not enough, you will still see artifacts. either split to two discs and use 720x576 at 5.5mbps or keep one disc 352x576 at 2.7mbps.

4) The reencoding using Tmpgenc was very long for CBR (it took about 11 hours). I assume that VBR encoding will be even longer, right?

VBR will take twice as long. it encodes the film once, and cheks the quality. it then encodes again with optimised settings for each scene. that's not too bad for 3.5 hours of material, imagine doing it a few years back on a 600mhz machine - my computer took a whole weekend to encode one film!

5) I would also guess that Ulead DVD Workshop2 takes shortes time than Tmpgenc and also more convenient as it does the whole process in one step, yet I have not figured out yet how to adjust settings correctly (the language used in the menu templates is the same as Tmpgenc, yet it renders a huge oversized file).
Thanks again.

All in one applications never have good encoding engines, the reults will always be poor compared to what TMPGenc can do

[jimmalenko]

[EDIT]I could have sworn that the post was addressed to me

1) I did read in "What is DVD" the valid resolutions for DVD PAL, yet, how did you determine the optimal resolution to use was D1? What criterion/calculator did you follow?

I used experience

2) Again, what criterion/calculator do you use to determine the min/ave/max bitrate in the VBR setting that you suggest? (1500,2700,4000)

I use whatever the bitrate calculator gives me for the average, 50% of this for the min, and 150% of this for the max. Again experience has calculated these for me.

3) I tested authoring a DVD with a CBR of 2600 and resolution of 720x576 and using TmpgEnc and Tmpgenc DVD Author, and finally Nero to burn the image. As you predicted, motion parts of the video (a tennis match) were very pixelated. I will try VBR and let you know the comparison.

I thought so

4) The reencoding using Tmpgenc was very long for CBR (it took about 11 hours). I assume that VBR encoding will be even longer, right?

11 hours sounds about right. As a general rule, about 3:1 ratio is pretty quick for any conversion to MPEG-2. VBR will be double that. Try playing around with the priority settings in TMPGEnc. I have found that some encodes have been the quickest with this set to low Priority (go figure ). Also play around with the Motion Search Precision setting. I would grab a 1 minute snippet of your footage and run different motion search precisions over the same file and then compare the quality. I was once told bever to have this on the very high setting, as the difference between high and very high is about 30% of your total encoding time and thats about it ! Other people have suggested here that if your source is high quality then you can get away with selecting Motion Search Precision of motion estimate (fast). I have found the guides here and here to be very handy in tweaking my system for optimum output.

5) I would also guess that Ulead DVD Workshop2 takes shortes time than Tmpgenc and also more convenient as it does the whole process in one step, yet I have not figured out yet how to adjust settings correctly (the language used in the menu templates is the same as Tmpgenc, yet it renders a huge oversized file).

I haven't used that software before, so I can't help you. I do know that all-in-one solutions very rarely do the job better than a couple of dedicated tools.

[alegator]

Thanks for the useful info.
I don't like the quality obtained either with CBR or VBR in a DVD-R5, and I don't like the idea of splitting the video in two DVDR5's, so I guess the solution is DVDR9, but that would mean replacing my DVD burner and standalone DVD player too...is it worth it? Anyone with experience on this? Are these devices and blank media commercially available at reasonable prices?
Thanks.

[flaninacupboard]

dual layer writable dvd's are very expensive at the moment. not knowing your location it's hard to give exact price or reccomend a supplier. i don't know why you think you need a new dvd player though....? it -seems- that if your player can play +r discs it can play dual layer +r discs.

A less costly solution is to try as suggested the half D1 resolution.

[alegator]

Single sided dual layer burners are affordable, they sell for under $200, check this:
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProduc...uctSKU=DRU700A

But then of course comes the media, and as you say, it is probably very expensive compared to DVD5 blank media.
Yes, sorry about that, my current home DVD player should be able to play DVD9 media, right? In the end, commercial movie DVD's are mostly DVD9's.
Also, are dual layer burners like the SonyDRU700 compatible with DVD-R/RW5 and DVD+R/RW5 media?
And regarding dual layer media, they are only of the +R standard?
Thanks.

[flaninacupboard]

But then of course comes the media, and as you say, it is probably very expensive compared to DVD5 blank media.

indeed. been spotted in this country for £14.99 a disc (around $28)

Yes, sorry about that, my current home DVD player should be able to play DVD9 media, right? In the end, commercial movie DVD's are mostly DVD9's.

yes, assuming the dual layer writable disc is reflective enough to be picked up by your player. this is something we simply won't know until the discs are wider spread.

Also, are dual layer burners like the SonyDRU700 compatible with DVD-R/RW5 and DVD+R/RW5 media?

yes.

And regarding dual layer media, they are only of the +R standard?
Thanks.

currently, yes. this will probably change soon.

[alegator]

Well, I guess the best thing is to wait a a bit more until prices/standards get better.