What Macrovision looks like

[FOO]

I finally got my "Video stabilizer" working.
I thought that maybe some people would be interested in
seeing pictures of Macrovision. This is the simplest kind.
I'll post some of the weirder ones later.

[FOO]

OK Here's another kind. Its a mixture of the previous and a really
wide Luma pulse that lasts right up to the next Hsync. This is
why the circuits found on the internet with one-shots fail. It's very
difficult to generate a pulse exactly the right length. Too short and
you leave a MV spike. Too long and you screw up the Hsync.

[FOO]

This is the strangest yet. It's on Fantasia. It alternates real fast between
the first and second picture and then does type 2 for a while and repeats.
I don't know how a TV can stand this crap. The bottom trace on all these
pictures is the output of the gadget. Nice quiet black

[chicola]

The problem that Macrovisions presents is the signal reaching Sync level between the Horizontal Syncs!

The TV handles this by locking on to the HS which never deviates much from the spec. The other sync pulses are somewhat random.

So, you can have the white pulses, what you CAN'T have is the sync pulses between the HS.

[Capmaster]

Good information. Thanks for the info FOO!

[FOO]

Those white pulses are over 150% of the maximum white
level of the video. They cause the AGC to lower the gain
which makes the picture dark.
My ATI 8500 ignores the extra Hsyncs if the driver hack is in place,
but does not ignore the extra high luma pulses.

I have run a DVD player output through this thing , and it captures fine.
There was supposed to be a new kind of protection on the DVDs
but I didn't see it. CGMS ? I'll try some different DVDs.

[Capmaster]

Those white pulses are over 150% of the maximum white
level of the video. They cause the AGC to lower the gain
which makes the picture dark.
My ATI 8500 ignores the extra Hsyncs if the driver hack is in place,
but does not ignore the extra high luma pulses.

How would the output of a true TBC look compared to the stabilizer? Is it the same?

[FOO]

Beats me . I ain't got one . Somebody send me one and I'll take
pictures
I think Smurf has about 100 .
I think he should donate one to science

[BrainStorm69]

F00, I've been kinda busy lately and haven't been keeping up with what's going on here. Did you build a "video stabilizer?" And what are you using to create the graphs? Very interesting. I'm tempted to send you my extra SIMA Color Corrector just to see what its output looks like.

[fmctm1sw]

Foo,
What channel did you get that from? Here's what macrovision looks like for me



All kidding aside, great work! I am also interested in knowing if you designed some kind of video stabilizer. Someone else mentioned weird macrovision with Disney movies a while back (Fantasia is Disney right?). I'm assuming that is an oscilloscope with some kind of printout option? Now you got me interested.....

[DereX888]

tektronix signal analyser?

[FOO]

Yes , I built a MV remover. All the timing and control is done
with a microprocessor so I can make it do whatever.
The pictures are from a Digital Oscilloscope that can dump the
screen to a printer. I wrote a program to grab it with the computer.
All the pictures are from VHS tapes.
I'm copying them all so I can get rid of them. Any body wanna buy
a shitload of disney tapes for cheap ?

fmctm1sw , what media did that come from ? I haven't seen that yet.
I want to make sure this thing can handle it.

[lordsmurf]

How can one of these be made?
And at what cost?

Have you considered selling them?

Are they easy to use? Or need constant re-adjusting?

[ronnylov]

FOO - what do you think about this one, is it worth trying?
http://home.quicknet.com.au/andrewm/macro/

[FOO]

I need a schematic to decide if that one works. I don't see one.
I suspect it may not do the MV in the second picture above.

The parts for mine are fairly cheap. The PCB is the problem.
Cheapest price I know of to get GOOD PCB prototypes is
$33 each with minimum 3. So this one cost $100 and I have 2 spares.
The PCB is small. In quantity it could be easily less than $5.

It is bulletproof , however. Even keeps the closed captions , unlike most.
And if I find a new noise in the video I can re-flash the code.
I dunno what the market is. Probably have to make a hundred to get
them cheap enough. It is more complicated than it needs to be
because I was going to use it to detect commercials too.

Smurf. No adjustment required or available. Tuning things up is a pain.

[FOO]

Just looked at the code for AndrewM gadget. I'm almost certain
that it won't eliminate MV as in the second picture above.

[FOO]

OK more pictures. This is at the end of a field. The Color Burst
has been replaced by a very high spike on the last 5 lines. I
don't know what it's supposed to do but I'm sure there is evil
intent involved. The ATI isn't bothered by it but I think I will
suppress it anyway. Note I got 3 of them by blanking the whole
line. I think that's in the overscan anyway. I'll just blank the last 5
and the EQ pulses after them. Vsync is at the vertical dotted line.

This tape didn't have regular MV in front BTW. So what is this crap ?



Anybody know how many lines in TV overscan

[handyguy]

I noticed if you FF a VHS with macro on it you can see b & w bars on the top of the screen.

[FOO]

Never mind. I'm confused. The last picture did have MV on the front.
I guess this means the spikes are yet another type of MV.
It's a wonder there is room for the movie on these damned tapes.

[chicola]

Foo,

Sorry, didn't noticed the extra 150% white level. Ok, that produces what fmctm1sw presented in his picture.

The unlocking, is produced by the misplaced syncs. The ATI, with the hacked drivers, bypass the sync detection during the video line.

The huge Color Bursts can present a similar probelm to the 150% white level spikes. It all depends on where does the signal receiver (tv, vcr, graphic card, etc) does the clamping.

Most do it in the CB region and, with the CB altered in that way, there will be a clamp problem.

Those last 3 or 5 lines are valid video lines so, if you black the CB, the receiver won't be able to get it's chroma reference and will rely on it's last reference detected. So there may be a small variation in color in the last lines. Only the brightness will be ok.

CB in the Vertical Sync area can surely be blacked!

A device to remove MV is very simple to do but it requires that a person understands what it is programming, as not all MV signals are equal and, because many of them are on tape, reproducing them may produce different output dependent on the "player". So adjustments would need to be made to the code.

And, for that, one would need to understand the programming.

About the width of the HS pulse: the devices usually lock on to the rising edge. So, usually, you can eat some of the falling edge just to be sure that you blacked the whole line and there won't be any locking problem.
The signal won't be truly "NTSC or PAL spec" but it doesn't matter.

[FOO]

Sorry, didn't noticed the extra 150% white level. Ok, that produces what fmctm1sw presented in his picture

No , he has screwed up color, and you can't tell if the brightness is wrong
by looking at only 1 frame.
The FALLING edge of Hsync is the reference , not the rising.

OK we have new code. It eats 3 lines of the even field and 2 1/2
of the odd field. The picture is now very clean on the bottom
unlike the usual jittery shit from tapes. You can see it's slightly
smaller on the computer , but I'll bet the TV won't show it.
And no shitty little spikes anymore

[fmctm1sw]

Sorry, didn't noticed the extra 150% white level. Ok, that produces what fmctm1sw presented in his picture

No , he has screwed up color, and you can't tell if the brightness is wrong
by looking at only 1 frame.

Here are the particulars of that picture: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225104&highlight=

[Bilal]

my dvd player has a hack that turns off macrovision, how do you think that's done.
thanks
Bilal

[FOO]

Your DVD player has to actually generate the MV. Obviously
it could just decline to do so if the firmware was modified.

[chicola]

Hi Foo,

No , he has screwed up color, and you can't tell if the brightness is wrong
by looking at only 1 frame.

No. The 150% Luma usually affects all the capacitors used in the Clamping sector, charging them to levels that they were not suppose to have. The results become somewhat "random" and the effect described by the poster is right: he only can take that picture during a very rapid transition period, because they tend to go black/white (caused by the extra luma). During that transition period lots of "strange" things can happen.

So, it doesn't really matter. It's a MV effect, that's for sure.

The FALLING edge of Hsync is the reference , not the rising.

I thought the opposite but I can't confirm it right now.

About the visibility of the last lines: It all depends on the setup of the TV. There are TVs which don't show many lines at the end. There are others showing all the lines. Etc... It depends, so in your case you can enjoy your solution but it's not universal.

But, once again, that's the right thing: adjust the setup to our particular needs!

[FOO]

No. The 150% Luma usually affects all the capacitors used in the Clamping sector, charging them to levels that they were not suppose to have. The results become somewhat "random" and the effect described by the poster is right: he only can take that picture during a very rapid transition period, because they tend to go black/white (caused by the extra luma). During that transition period lots of "strange" things can happen.

So, it doesn't really matter. It's a MV effect, that's for sure.

Sounds like bullshit to me.

That bad picture may be just very low luma with normal chroma. I'm
not sure what it's supposed to look like.

[chicola]

chicola rests.

[FOO]

I checked out a Disney DVD. It confuses the Sync separator
sometimes which is a store-bought IC. What if a TV uses those ?
Dunno why yet. Can't see anything obvious.
Looks like I have more work to do.

[BrainStorm69]

FOO, whatever happened to this? Did you keep going with it? Are you ever going to sell them?

[FOO]

I got it all working, and did all my tapes.
I'd have to order around $500 worth of parts to make
a bunch of them. Not sure that many people want one.
How much do you think they're worth ?