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  1. Member npaulie2000's Avatar
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    Slightly off topic: but why do "Americans" always get credit, bad or good for creating capitalism so to speak. After all, other less glamorous and less populous continents such as Australia "the Queen's last resort" benefit as much from these ideals as the evil north americaners. Just my two farthings. By the way the Queen has been dead for years now.
    Her name is Laura. She loves my bush.
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  2. Member JustJay's Avatar
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    Since this was no doubt brought about by the lobbyist from the RIAA and their friends I'm wondering WHY isn't the electronics manufacturers industry lobbying equally hard against it.
    I mean think about it, what would the affect be on their bottom line when just about everything they sell becomes illegal.
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    I'm sure they are, but their cause is more "shady" then studios sparkling clean argument so naturally it is beeing pushed back, consequently we don't hear so much about it.
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    So, how does this affect me in Canada? If the Conservatives get into power after next week, the USA will be in for a rude awakening. None of these measures will pass a Conservative dominated Canadian Parliament. They've already put the guys who want US satellite dish owners in Canada arrested on notice that they won't be putting up with that nonsense anymore. The US Gov't friends in high places currently in power (Liberals in name only) will be out in the cold and I can watch all that US programming in peace...
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  5. Originally Posted by DVO
    But let's keep all guns for everyone eventhough they CAN kill people...
    Hey you can kill someone with a fork and a knife... (the french tried to outlaw that one) but seriousley guns dont kill people, people do. Our problem is we give tghese S.O.B.'s way to much time to think of shit.. where the hell do they come up with these ideas??!?!?!?!?!?! like do all sit around a hooka and just comu up with this stuff?
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  6. Banned
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    Sorry, quick OT comment. I disagree, guns do kill, they make impulse killing clean, quick and easy (at least it appears that way). No guns, no impulse killing (probably majority of cases), just like no money - no impluse buying.
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  7. Member Mr anderson's Avatar
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    so over wht time scale before this goes world wide?
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  8. so next to go will be copy machines, and then pencils since u can use them to copy...geez what next....
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  9. I havn't taken the time to read the whole thread but I must say the thought of VCRs being illegal is ridiculous. My car could be used in a bank robbery, does that mean someone is going to come tow it away?
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  10. Member Mr anderson's Avatar
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    bang goes scanners, printers etc wht about the mini disk? man those guys need a re-think
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  11. Member ViRaL1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JustJay
    Since this was no doubt brought about by the lobbyist from the RIAA and their friends I'm wondering WHY isn't the electronics manufacturers industry lobbying equally hard against it.
    I mean think about it, what would the affect be on their bottom line when just about everything they sell becomes illegal.
    Hadware manufacturers don't have much to lose, because they can always modify their exisiting hardware to make it compliant and then sell it all over again to those who want to be compliant for fear of legal action.

    Originally Posted by Harryford
    Hey you can kill someone with a fork and a knife... (the french tried to outlaw that one) but seriousley guns dont kill people, people do.
    Guns, don't kill people, bullets do.

    As far as the new legislation goes, I'm so sick and tired of the new age of irresponsibility.

    "VCRs can be used to hurt our bottom line, make them illegal"

    "My diet is primarily McDonald's food and now I'm fat, I deserve compensation."

    "I thought my crotch was a good place for scalding hot coffee and now I've burned myself, I want money."

    It's a shame that the greatest crime against humanity has no legal penalty or mandatory sentence.

    Down with stupidity!
    Nothing can stop me now, 'cause I don't care anymore.
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  12. Member Mr anderson's Avatar
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    TWO LETTERS "bs", WHT EVA NEXT!!!!!!!! THEY SEE A CAT TAKING A C**P IN THE STREET AND THE SEND IN THE SWATS TO KILL THE CAT (ALTHOUGH I'D LIKE TO SEE THT FILM 2 LOL)
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    Good bless America and it quest to rid the world of evil...
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  14. Member Tidy's Avatar
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    Good lord imagine the implications of this. People are thinking of VCR's, DVD R's, and MP3 Players. It doesn't stop there. Think about photo copiers, fax machines, studio recording equipment that these jerk offs use to put out their overpriced music. Your computer would be illegal, any device with a hard dsik. I mean this law could cenceivably throw us back into the stone age if it was ever to be abused. I mean, when you think about it, a large portion of ALL electronic devices could be used to infringe copyright laws. What's next are they going to say that it is illegal to have a gun and that Winchester, Glock, Browning, and Federal need to be shut down because they make the devices that kill people. This is sickening. Fascism is alive and well aparently. Hitler is sitting in hell sipping a boiling margarita laughing his ass off right now. He burned books and now congress wants to burn electornics. As for people who say it will never happen don't count on it. take a look at the patriot act. It violates huge amounts of civil rights yet nobody has turned it over nor have they even mentioned it. There is a man sitting in guantanamo bay who is a U.S. citizen. he has been sitting there for two years. he was arrested under the patriot act. The patriot act states that you can be arrested (detained), denied legal representation, refused the right to hear the chrges against you, and be held indefinitely with no trial. You would think people would sqwak about this more than electronic devices. This coutnry was built on freedom and we are losing it. Our congress who is supposed to protect us has seen fit to screw us with the patriot act and you really think they care what we think about our devices being banned? If this passes I will back up even more movies than before. I will order equipment from overseas. I don't care what they say, or legislate I WILL fight for my rights as a human being and American citizen.



    I also want to say to the people who say if you get rid of guns you get rid of impulse killing. That is completely ridiculous. People will come up with ways that are just as clean and easy. People will fashion their own firearms as well. The idea that guns are responsible for killing is just asanine. When are people going to take responsibility for their own actions? Take a look, alcohol is a HUGE killer not so much directly as indirectly as it is the most abundant cause for automobile related deaths each year in this coutnry. We tried making it illegal and most everybody remembers what happened with that. Made things worse not better. get a clue taking away teh tool does not remove the problem. It is a proven fact.
    The real answer lies in completely understanding the question!
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    I don't know about the Hilter analogies, but one hatch should undrstand would be the Soviet Union. In the USSR photocopy machines were tightly controled, and this was regularly cited byt hte US as a severe limit on freedom.

    With all the nostaliga over Reagan, and the advent of Gorbachev, perhaps Hatch would do well to recall that one of the basic elements of glasnost was the lifting of the ban on private photocopiers!
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  16. Banned
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    Tidy, that about it... but you forgot censorship ("Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Passion").

    As to copiers, they were limited in former USSR as means of suppressing free press and the opposition (distribution of ideas, nothing to do with copyrights).

    I also want to say to the people who say if you get rid of guns you get rid of impulse killing. That is completely ridiculous. People will come up with ways that are just as clean and easy. People will fashion their own firearms as well. The idea that guns are responsible for killing is just asanine
    ...but with guns readily avaliable they don't have to, do they?
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  17. Member Mr anderson's Avatar
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    two words 4 u, f*@#ing mad!
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    Let's not forget, when Hatch talked about destroying other's computers, he also had illegal software on his own computer. :P
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  19. Member Tidy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by proxyx99
    Tidy, that about it... but you forgot censorship ("Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Passion").

    As to copiers, they were limited in former USSR as means of suppressing free press and the opposition (distribution of ideas, nothing to do with copyrights).

    I also want to say to the people who say if you get rid of guns you get rid of impulse killing. That is completely ridiculous. People will come up with ways that are just as clean and easy. People will fashion their own firearms as well. The idea that guns are responsible for killing is just asanine
    ...but with guns readily avaliable they don't have to, do they?


    Absolutely they sure do not have to fashion them. But that is putting a band aid on a situation that might cause another wound. At least with regulation you can control the strength of the firearms.
    The real answer lies in completely understanding the question!
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  20. Guys. Lets keep the gun talk out fo this thread. It is not relevant to the topic and Baldrick is likley to shut the tread down if it goes much further.
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  21. Member Tidy's Avatar
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    honestly the guns were an example that is not the subject of the discussion and I think the moderators are observant enough to realize that. I doubt they will close a thread as important as this over 4 or 5 posts
    The real answer lies in completely understanding the question!
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  22. Member Sillyname's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tidy
    honestly the guns were an example that is not the subject of the discussion and I think the moderators are observant enough to realize that. I doubt they will close a thread as important as this over 4 or 5 posts
    Uh... He is a moderator, so apparently he isn't observant enough.

    No wait! That came out wrong!
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  23. Member Tidy's Avatar
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    I noticed that I just didn't think he was a moderator forthis forum .
    The real answer lies in completely understanding the question!
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  24. Member
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    I think it is a very relevant analogy.
    Guns are a tool for defense as well as offense, most people do not realize this. A VCR or any other recording tool is used for both legal and illegal activities. Copying your son's graduation, recording your daughter on the nightly news for some award. Guns also have a positive aspect, they protect elderly/weak people, and lest we forget during/prior to the 60's gun training was part of school curriculum as an elective and also available throught the ROTC.
    Banning the VCR or any other recoding tool is not going to stop piracy just as banning guns is not going to stop criminals. The only thing either is going to do is make criminals out of people who DO use them for legitimate purposes, criminal activity is ALREADY BANNED. I am not going to get into a gun debate, there are other forums for that. But as I said, I think the analogy is legit. I have no idea what the lawmakers are thinking, banning a tool is not going to stop an illegal activity, it's illegal - don't do it. Self restraint seems to have gone by the wayside, and excuses for it are rampant.

    I do find it laughable for a senator that spews sayings "Prosecute the offender not the tool"(in regards to anti-self defense movement), is prosecuting the tool and not the offender.
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  25. Yes, I Know Roundabout's Avatar
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    I think this is what gitreel is talking about (my apologies if this was discussed/posted before)

    Orrin Hatch, Software Pirate?

    Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) suggested Tuesday that people who download copyright materials from the Internet should have their computers automatically destroyed. But Hatch himself is using unlicensed software on his official website, which presumably would qualify his computer to be smoked by the system he proposes.

    The senator's site makes extensive use of a JavaScript menu system developed by Milonic Solutions, a software company based in the United Kingdom. The copyright-protected code has not been licensed for use on Hatch's website. "It's an unlicensed copy," said Andy Woolley, who runs Milonic. "It's very unfortunate for him because of those comments he made."

    Hatch on Tuesday surprised a Senate hearing on copyright issues with the suggestion that technology should be developed to remotely destroy the computers of people who illegally download music from the Net.

    Hatch said damaging someone's computer "may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights," the Associated Press reported. He then suggested the technology would twice warn a computer user about illegal online behavior, "then destroy their computer."

    Any such technology would be in violation of federal antihacking laws. The senator, who chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee, suggested Congress would have to make copyright holders exempt from current laws for them to legally destroy people's computers.

    On Wednesday, Hatch clarified his comments, but stuck by the original idea. "I do not favor extreme remedies -- unless no moderate remedies can be found," he said in a statement. "I asked the interested industries to help us find those moderate remedies."

    Just as well. Because if Hatch's terminator system embraced software as well as music, his servers would be targeted for destruction.

    Milonic Solutions' JavaScript code used on Hatch's website costs $900 for a site-wide license. It is free for personal or nonprofit use, which the senator likely qualifies for. However, the software's license stipulates that the user must register the software to receive a licensing code, and provide a link in the source code to Milonic's website.

    On Wednesday, the senator's site met none of Milonic's licensing terms. The site's source code (which can be seen by selecting Source under the View menu in Internet Explorer) had neither a link to Milonic's site nor a registration code.

    However, by Thursday afternoon Hatch's site had been updated to contain some of the requisite copyright information. An old version of the page can be seen by viewing Google's cache of the site. "They're using our code," Woolley said Wednesday. "We've had no contact with them. They are in breach of our licensing terms."

    When contacted Thursday, Woolley said the company that maintains the senator's site had e-mailed Milonic to begin the registration process. Woolley said the code added to Hatch's site after the issue came to light met some -- but not all -- of Milonic's licensing requirements.

    Before the site was updated, the source code on Hatch's site contained the line: "* i am the license for the menu (duh) *"

    Woolley said he had no idea where the line came from -- it has nothing to do with him, and he hadn't seen it on other websites that use his menu system.

    "It looks like it's trying to cover something up, as though they got a license," he said.

    A spokesman in Hatch's office on Wednesday responded, "That's ironic" before declining to put Wired News in contact with the site's webmaster. He deferred comment on the senator's statement to the Senate Judiciary Committee, which did not return calls.

    The apparent violation was discovered by Laurence Simon, an unemployed system administrator from Houston, who was poking around Hatch's site after becoming outraged by his comments. Milonic's Woolley said the senator's unlicensed use of his software was just "the tip of the iceberg." He said he knows of at least two other senators using unlicensed copies of his software, and many big companies.

    Continental Airlines, for example, one of the largest airlines in the United States, uses Woolley's system throughout its Continental.com website. Woolley said the airline has not paid for the software. Worse, the copyright notices in the source code have been removed.

    "That really pisses me off," he said.

    A spokesman for Continental said the airline would look into the matter.

    Woolley makes his living from his software. Like a lot of independent programmers, he struggles to get people to conform to his licensing terms, let alone pay for his software. "We don't want blood," he said. "We just want payment for the hard work we do. We work very, very hard. If they're not prepared to pay, they're software pirates."
    Ethernet (n): something used to catch the etherbunny
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  26. Member
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    Remember George Orwell's 1984?

    Here it is, if you have not read it:

    http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/
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  27. Member ViRaL1's Avatar
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    OHHHHHHHHHH no! I'm not falling for that. Storm troopers will be outside my door in minutes if I click on that link. Reading copyrighted work has already been outlawed in America somewhere I'm sure.
    Nothing can stop me now, 'cause I don't care anymore.
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    Originally Posted by Mr anderson
    two words 4 u, f*@#ing mad!
    Do all the kids in your school put "Mr" in front of their names or is it just you? Btw. "Mr" is reserved for adults so at least try to act like one if it's not too much to ask of you.

    @thegig,
    seems that this is exactly the case, their frustration with the technology rose to such level that they would rather ban the technology. Bad news is that as years go by it will be even easier to steal, manipulate any material. What then? Your comment on prosecuting tools is 100% correct. If they get their way we are heading towards dark ages, literally. Looking forward to it, that will be quite an experience. I'd start with publicly televised stoning of VCR's (especially my old, non-working one). Surely it will be a grand hit in Europe.

    As to guns etc. there is a saying that opportunity makes a thief (conversely: no opportunity less likelihood for a crime, just think about it for a sec.). With regard to great benefit of being able to protect themselves for grandma's I'm all for it provided that eligibility age for a hand gun is raised to 65. Grandma's seem to be the biggest problem in terms of hand guns up until now so let's hit them with a new requirement.
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  29. Member Mr anderson's Avatar
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    fyi im not a kid, Do all the kids in your school put "Mr" in front of their names or is it just you? nope just the ones tht get on my my wrong side!
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  30. Banned
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    I regret to inform you that this is a discussion forum and if you are looking for a bar brawl you seem to have picked a wrong place. There are accepted ways for people to express their thoughts so try next time to raise to that standard. Bring on whatever you want to say and I'll try to deal with your arguments in order they come. Just try to avoid F-words as they say more about you then anything else.
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