create anamorphic dvd from 4:3 source

[computerchuck]

First I'll layout the groundwork. I have a widescreen 7.2" lcd screen and dvd player in my vehicle; also I have a buddy who has a 60" 16:9 HDTV. DVD players are set to output 16:9. My TV is 32" 4:3. I want to create a "universal format" DVD thats usable between my tv and his and my vehicle. Here is the problem. The mpeg2 video is encoded 4:3-great for my tv but on his HDTV and my indash dvd player, things are stretched sideways to fill the screen. I use both TMPGenc and TMPGenc DVD Author. The source is captured from 4:3 source. I tried encoding under TMPG using 16:9 option, but it looks like crap and stretches the square into a rectangle. What can I do to make both camps happy. Is there a way to make it "anamorphic"? I just want to make a dvd that later on when I buy my HDTV I won't have any major issues or reencodes to do.

[VidGuy]

Stretching 4:3 on a 16:9 monitor is usually a preference that's set on the TV - As far as I know, most 16:9 TVs will normally play a 4:3 with pillarbars (black bars on the two sides).

4:3 material should just be encoded as 4:3. There's no other way to really do it (Unless it's 4:3 letterboxed - then you "could" encode it anamorphically by enlarging the picture, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort to do it under normal circumstances)

[johns0]

To make the movie anamorphic without stretching you will have to add black borders on the sides and encode at 16:9 in tmpgenc.

[guns1inger]

If the movie is a widescreen film encoded as 4:3 (i.e. matted letterbox), then check the TV to see if it has a zoom function. Many widescreen TV's allow you to zoom in, filling the screen with the image, and pushing the black bars off the top and bottom. If it is a 4:3 presentation (i.e. no black bars at all), then you need to fix your player/TV settings to add the vertical black bars, as they are at fault, not the disk.

[FulciLives]

To convert 4:3 to 16x9 enhanced you need to cut off some of the top and bottom and then resize.

For NTSC 4:3 to NTSC 16x9 enhanced you crop 60 from the top and 60 from the bottom which makes your 720x480 image 720x360 ... you then resize from 720x360 to 720x480 and you now have a PAL 16x9 enhanced video.

For PAL 4:3 to PAL 16x9 enhanced you crop 72 from the top and 72 from the bottom which makes your 720x576 image 720x432 ... you then resize from 720x432 to 720x576 and you now have a PAL 16x9 enhanced video.

This type of proceedure can be done with Avisynth or even directly "inside" TMPGEnc Plus.

Please note that your 4:3 source must of course be widescreen with an aspect ratio of at least 1.78:1 or wider. If the aspect ratio of the 4:3 video is less than 1.78:1 (such as 1.66:1 or full screen) then you will end up cutting "into" the image.

This is a NO NO !!!

In which case you leave it 4:3 and on a 16x9 screen you will get a 4:3 image "centered" with equal amounts of black on the sides. All 16x9 widescreen televisions should have a "mode" that works like this.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[computerchuck]

Is there a way to tell TMPGEnc DVD Author to make a 16:9 dvd with a 4:3 source mpeg? That way if you watch on a 16:9 TV it will center it automatically (black bars on sides) and if you watch it on a 4:3 TV then everything will look as it should.

[jnojr]

How could I take 4:3 source with a 16:9 "letterbox" and convert to anamorphic 16:9 with TMPGEnc 2.521.58.169, VirtualDubMod 1.5.4.1, MPEG-VCR v3.14, or DVD-Lab 1.3? Or is there another (prefereably free) piece of software that can do this?

[FulciLives]

In TMPGEnc select a 16x9 DVD template then go to the CLIP function on the ADVANCED TAB and cut the appropriate amount from the top and bottom and resize to full screen.

See my other post earlier in this thread for how much to cut off.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jnojr]

Gah... apparently, there's more than one "TMPGEnc". I thought I'd used it last night to demux MPEG-2 files. But today, when I open it, it won't open .mpg files. And when I search, people say TMPGEnc is only for AVIs.

Which one do I need? X-Press? The one that isn't X-Press? The DVD one is apparently a third... this is so confusing...

[jnojr]

I found where I was able to demux my mpg files, but I don't have any "Advanced" anything... either we're talking about different TMPGEncs, or there's some hidden button I haven't found. What is the exact version and full name of the program that I can use to do this? Or, if I'm just hoplessly confused about all of the TMPGEncs, is there a step-by-step, hopefully with screenshots, that I can use to find this feature?

[FulciLives]

You could use DVD2AVI to get a D2V project file. TMPGEnc should have no problem loading that.

As for a guide well here is one that covers a lot of aspects of TMPGEnc but it doesn't specifically cover the type of conversion you are asking about.

CLICK HERE FOR THE GUIDE

Please note there are MANY guides on VIDEOHELP.COM

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jnojr]

So... demux the .mpg, convert the video to a .d2v, try to figure out how to make TMPGEnc reformat, and then convert back to .mpg?

I know there are "many guides"... that's half the problem! Having no idea where in Hades to start! Is there one that specifically addresses what I want to do? I'm tempted to try to document the process, but that would be like the blind leading the blind

[jnojr]

OK... I figured out how to get a .d2v out of DVD2AVI. I've run into a problem with TMPGEnc, though... when it gets to step 4 of the Wizard, the "Avergae bit rate" is 3000, which creates a file that'll be 142% of the size of a DVD. I've tried turning it down, but the change just doesn't take... unclicking "Auto setting" doesn't help, going into "Expert" and changing it there doesn't help... all I can do is raise it, which makes an even bigger file size (and TMPGEnc refuses to run).

[FulciLives]

When you ran the MPEG file through DVD2AVI what kind of audio file did it give you?

And is this the same audio file you are using as input to TMPGEnc as the AUDIO SOURCE?

In short you might have to convert the audio to PCM WAV format first. Try 16-bit 48k Stereo PCM WAV.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jnojr]

When you ran the MPEG file through DVD2AVI what kind of audio file did it give you?

And is this the same audio file you are using as input to TMPGEnc as the AUDIO SOURCE?

I demuxed the .mpg and converted the video portion to .d2v So there's no audio information involved at all. But it's my understanding that audio is a *very* small part, maybe 1% of the info. Even if there was audio involved, I don't see how that would result in output that's 142% too big to fit on a DVD, *and* there being no apparent way to reduce that size in TMPGEnc

I can link to screenshots of what I'm seeing if that'll help.

[guns1inger]

For a two hour movie (for example), an AC-3 5.1 audio track would take up around 8-10% of a DVD-5 (sssl) disk. A DTS audio track would take up a round 18-20%, and an LPCM audio track could take up to 30+%. Your 1% is very much wishful thinking unless you are talking about a silent movie.

[jnojr]

Well, the audio in question won't be 5.1 It'll be 2.0 at best, as it was recorded off of cable via a RePlayTV. I'm pretty sure the audio files were about 150MB, compared to around 4GB of video.

But, since I'm dealing with just the video, it's a moot point. And even if I wasn't, this still doesn't answer the question of why can I not decrease the bitrate in TMPGEnc, or do anything else that will result in a finished product of less than 142% of the size of a DVD.

http://www.john-oliver.net/tmpgenc.bmp is what I'm looking at. I don't know why it says 48000Hz Stereo when there's no sound, and the movies is most definitely *not* 180+ minutes... it's about 90. Where it says "Average video bitrate", I can change the 3000 to, say, 2000. But then when I do anything else, it resets itself to 3000. It doesn't matter f I uncheck "Auto setting" or not, or if I change it in Expert.

[FulciLives]

Well you are not really giving us much information. When you use DVD2AVI it should be set up to demux the audio.

If you are using TMPGEnc in WIZARD MODE (sounds like it but it is unclear) then you have to input audio some forms of audio can cause havoc with the bitrate setting.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jnojr]

Well you are not really giving us much information. When you use DVD2AVI it should be set up to demux the audio.

If you are using TMPGEnc in WIZARD MODE (sounds like it but it is unclear) then you have to input audio some forms of audio can cause havoc with the bitrate setting.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

I'm not giving enough information?!?! What am I not saying... I'm giving everything I can think of!

And if I use DVD2AVI to demux the audio, what will that change unless I also have the audio stream in TMPGEnc? I've heard a number of times to not use TMPGEnc or other video tools to edit the audio, that there are audio editors for that. And I'm not planning on stripping any frames of my video out which might cause the audio to lose synch... all I'm trying to accomplish is change the aspect ratio.

No offense, but if you know how to do this, it'll be a lot easier if you just tell me, or point me to a thread where the question has been asked and answered. I've searched but came up bingo. I'm not an A/V engineer. I know *nothing* about this stuff other than what I've started to pick up in the last few days, which is a drop in the ocean, apparently. I'm more than willing to read and look for answers, but I need a starting place, at least... this would be like if you asked me how to do something in UNIX and I threw 12,000 pages of manuals at you and said "The answer is in there".

[FulciLives]

Sad.

I give up.

You cannot read.

Very Sad.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jnojr]

I don't know what to say. Apparently, you're responding to some other thread, because your comments have no bearing on anything I've said. I'll assume you made an honest effort to help someone and say "Thanks for trying".

[FulciLives]

The problem is you don't answer my questions so how can I offer any help?

This is why I gave up but I will try ONE last time.

I have no idea what your audio format is but running the MPEG through DVD2AVI demuxed the audio. Convert that file into a 16-bit 48k Stereo PCM WAV audio file.

Then use the WIZARD MODE in TMPGEnc and input the D2V as your video source and the PCM WAV as your audio source.

That should solve the problem.

If not then try getting ahold of a different version of DVD2AVI such as this version here:

http://neuron2.net/fixd2v/decodefix.html

This is the version I am currently using and this is considered the best version of DVD2AVI ... at least to the best of my knowledge.

Some versions of DVD2AVI don't work correctly so your problem might be as simple as using the "wrong" version.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jnojr]

I don't see a question that you've asked which I haven't answered. My best guess is you asked "When you ran the MPEG file through DVD2AVI what kind of audio file did it give you?", to which I replied "I demuxed the .mpg and converted the video portion to .d2v So there's no audio information involved at all." What I'm trying to say is, I demuxed my original .mpg file in TMPGEnc, which gave me a .m2v file for video, and a .mp2 file for audio. I used DVD2AVI to create a .d2v from the .m2v That's why I say the audio has nothing to do with it. I'm really sorry if I'm not clear... I could easily be using the wrong terminology.

The .mpa file seems to be Layer-2 48000Hz 384kbps Here's what I'm seeing:

http://www.john-oliver.net/screen1.gif

http://www.john-oliver.net/screen2.gif

http://www.john-oliver.net/screen3.gif

http://www.john-oliver.net/screen3a.gif

http://www.john-oliver.net/screen4.gif

I really do appreciate your attempts to help, and apologize if I'm not giving enough info.

Oh, and the above screens are created when I cancel out of the Wizard and enter everything in manually. It will start encoding, but is always showing up as 4:3 just like in screen1

[computerchuck]

trying to get back on topic, I notice on retail dvds if you use dvdshrink to examine the video files, usually in the extras section you will find that most of the footage or making of videos are 4:3 and are centered in the middle of the preview window all the way around (top and bottom and on its sides as well), but on the film it will fill the preview window (which is at a 16:9 view). Will DVDPatcher do the trick? If so, how?

[FulciLives]

trying to get back on topic, I notice on retail dvds if you use dvdshrink to examine the video files, usually in the extras section you will find that most of the footage or making of videos are 4:3 and are centered in the middle of the preview window all the way around (top and bottom and on its sides as well), but on the film it will fill the preview window (which is at a 16:9 view). Will DVDPatcher do the trick? If so, how?

Well sometimes the movie is 16x9 but some of the extras are 4:3

So DVD Patcher isn't going to fix anything.

Although I'm not sure what you are trying to do?

If the extras (or whatever) is really 4:3 then you can't make it 16x9 unless you re-encode using the proceedure I talked about earlier.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[computerchuck]

what I'm trying to do is to somehow tell the dvd player (which is set on 16:9 output) if the source is 4:3 not to stretch it to fit. Like the 4:3 extras on a retail dvd, they don't stretch. Everything that I have as mpegs (music videos lately) is 4:3. But the LCD in the vehicle and my buddy's HDTV is 16:9. I don't want the video stretched to fill the whole screen, but instead preserve the 4:3 aspect ratio. That I guess was the main question at the beginning of this topic. Guess I should have worded it better. This was never an issue before I got into 16:9 viewscreens. I don't want to have to manually put black bars on the sides, because when I watch it on a 4:3 TV, it will look weird if not smaller because of the imposed sidebars.

[FulciLives]

what I'm trying to do is to somehow tell the dvd player (which is set on 16:9 output) if the source is 4:3 not to stretch it to fit. Like the 4:3 extras on a retail dvd, they don't stretch. Everything that I have as mpegs (music videos lately) is 4:3. But the LCD in the vehicle and my buddy's HDTV is 16:9. I don't want the video stretched to fill the whole screen, but instead preserve the 4:3 aspect ratio. That I guess was the main question at the beginning of this topic. Guess I should have worded it better. This was never an issue before I got into 16:9 viewscreens. I don't want to have to manually put black bars on the sides, because when I watch it on a 4:3 TV, it will look weird if not smaller because of the imposed sidebars.

What you are asking for is a function of the TV display not the DVD player. A true 16x9 widescreen TV display should have an option to show 4:3 material FULL SCREEN meaning it will fit from top to bottom and have equal amount of black on either side. If it is 4:3 WS then there will be black on the top and bottom as well as the sides.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[computerchuck]

And if that option does not exist? His HDTV never had that option (latest RCA 60" HDTV) and my LCD definitely doesn't have that option. That's why I'm looking to do it from the dvd's point of view. Basicaly DVD FOR DUMMIES.

[FulciLives]

And if that option does not exist? His HDTV never had that option (latest RCA 60" HDTV) and my LCD definitely doesn't have that option. That's why I'm looking to do it from the dvd's point of view. Basicaly DVD FOR DUMMIES.

The RCA should have this option.

The LCD you have is a portable right? It should have the option but if it doesn't well it's only some cheap portable so I guess I wouldn't be too shocked it if doesn't.

Maybe you two need to read the manuals of your equipment though since this is very standard stuff for a 16x9 display TV.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman