TMPGEnc VS. DVDShrink ... DVDShrink the winner????

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Hello all, I reposted this comment in a new thread hoping to get back valuable info.

I've been stuck in the VCD/SVCD for the last year or so. I try for perfection of video quality all the time. I use to sacrifice audio (with SVCD i used only 64kbs!), because video was most important. I've used TMPEnc all the time, with 2passVBR, and this took 10-12 hours, but the quality (video) was perfect! I've done close to 125-150 movies this way!

Now with the DVD scene, I like the option of having Dolby 5.1, and I thought I would not have to worry about video quality too. But I have been quite dissapointed with DVDShrink. I've only tested 2 movies so far - Paycheck, movie only, 91% compression, deep analysis, version 3.0B5 and "In Living Color S1 D1, entire movie with menus and extra, 71% compression, deep analysis, version 3.1.7.6. I cant believe all the pixelation Im seeing! Paycheck had about 3 glitches, while In Living Color had about 12 in the first 2 episodes (I didnt even bother to watch the other 3)! Just not acceptable and i dont know why this is happenning? I thought it might have to do with the buffer running to 0Mb or something (see other post).

I wanted to avoid my 12 hour sessions per movie with TMPEnc (of course now at DVD quality), but still at CBR it will take about 5-6 hours per movie, and I havent tested this yet. I've read so much about DVDShrink (especially 3.0B5), even beating TMPEnc quality, but am not impressed yet.

Can anyone tell me if Im doing anything wrong, or what might be the problem? HELP!

[GabeB]

What kind of glitches are you seeing? I have been using DVD Shrink for about a year now, close to 100 movies, and have yet to see a glitch. I've seen skipping when the media is bad. What brand of media are you using?
DVD Shrink quality is good as long as it's above 80% or so.

[budz]

wanted to avoid my 12 hour sessions per movie with TMPEnc (of course now at DVD quality), but still at CBR it will take about 5-6 hours per movie, and I havent tested this yet. I've read so much about DVDShrink (especially 3.0B5), even beating TMPEnc quality, but am not impressed yet.

Can anyone tell me if Im doing anything wrong, or what might be the problem? HELP!

If you're not satisfied with DVDSHRINK then try using DVDREBUILDER. It produces stunning video quality. The drawback is the process is long depending how fast your pc is and how much memory you have. But the wait is worth it because the quality surpasses DVDSHRINK & DVD2ONE I've begun using this free software and will use this to back up most of my dvd collection.

In my opinion it's in the eyes of the beholder on whether or not one can see a difference in quality in terms of comparing one software to another. DVDREBUILDER is the way to go. I see this as the new free software that will eventually surpass DVDSHRINK in popularity. That is just my opinion.

__________________________________________________ ___________

[hastey]

I've been using DVDSHRINK with no problems and I think the quality is excellent, even on some movies that were done at 70% compression. DVDREBUILDER sounds pretty good and I'll keep a good eye on it too.

Try using some quality media - when I first started using DVDSHRINK I thought it wasn't good, used to get alot of freezes, audio dropouts and pixelisation - but it all turned out to be the cheap media I was using. When it comes to DVD-R/+R discs, you really get what you pay for.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Thanks for the reponse everyone. Im looking into DVDREBUILDER as we speak.

Like I said, I've only done two movies, but both had PIXELATON problems or SNOWSTORM fading (excuse my non-tech lingo). Surprisingly, not at typical "high camera speed" moments. I looked at the movie (files) on my computer with PowerDVD, but couldnt notice the problems, but this may have to do with computer resolution versus TV (again, gorgive my non-tech talk).

I have a AMD 2400+ 512K Ram. Each movie I used Maxwell 4X DVD+R, and another test, using Memorex 2X DVD-RW. Both versions had the exact same problems at the exact same time/scene locations. Again, if I played the movie ON DVD on my computer with PowerDVD, I still cant see the problems.

Now I havent gave up on DVDShrink. My (borrowed) standalone DVD player is DIRT CHEAP, so I'm curious how these movies play on BRAND name players. I would think this could be the problem, but not sure.

Other than that, Im not sure if there is a magic formula, say "keep above 80% or so", but was surprised that with Paycheck at 91% there were 3 problems. I think I will stick with version 3.0B5. and continue testing. Any other info/suggestions/feedback is still muchly appreciated.

Brennan

[hastey]

If it played fine on your PC then I'm inclined to suggest its the media.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

About the media: Maxwell DVD+R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:RICOHJPN-R01-002]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc Type : [DVD+R]
Manufacturer ID : [RICOHJPN]
Manufacturer Name : [Ricoh Company Ltd.]
Media Type ID : [R01]
Product Revision : [002]
Disc Application Code : [General Purpose]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2.4x , 4x]
Blank Disc Capacity : [Not Supported By Method 2]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

and Memorex DVD-RW


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-RW:RITEKW01]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc Type : [DVD-RW]
Manufacturer ID : [RITEKW01]
Manufacturer Name : [Ritek Co.]
Disc Application Code : [Unrestricted Use : Consumer Purpose]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2x]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4,489.3MB = 4.38GB (4.71GB)]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I've read on the NET, this seems to be good media. Back to the testing ...

[Gurm]

I found Paycheck to be particularly difficult to "Shrink". It just seems to resist transcoding for whatever reason.

I have to say I've been REALLY not fond of my results from Shrink (or Nero Recode) lately. *sigh* maybe I've gotten pickier.

- Gurm

[Shudder]

I think the slight edge artifacts or slight pixelization is getting to me too. At first I was wowed by making my own DVDs, now my normally visually critical self is coming back into focus.

[Poppa_Meth]

DVD Shrink 3.1.7.6 has known issues with pixelization. I still use 3beta5 and find it give far superior results to newer releases. the drawback is that it takes longer, but still not nearly as long as a full re-encode. I'd try reverting to an older version.

[lordsmurf]

Good results:
DVD Shrink 1.3
DVD Shrink 3.0 b5
DVD Shrink 3.1.2
DVD Shrink 3.1.7 (seems to be better without deep analysis!)
DVD2One 1.1.1
DVD Rebuilder with ReJig
DVD Rebuilder with QuEnc

Testing:
DVD Rebuilder with Procoder (not sure if it's possible)
The Film Machine with Procoder (for S/X/VCD conversion)
The Film Machine with CCE Basic (not sure if possible)

Total losers (to me):
DVD2One 1.4.0
DVDXCopy (actually ANYTHING from 321 Studios)
DVD Fab
DVD2DVDR
DVD2SVCD
DVD95Copy
CloneDVD
Nero Recode
... why a loser? Program too buggy or quality not there.


I don't backup much at all. So I want, decent quality with decent speed, and then a program that will work at least 90% of the time or more.

[Gurm]

Since Nero Recode is virtually identical to DVD Shrink, why is it on your loser list, out of curiosity?

- Gurm

[Shudder]

I've seen the shrink thing mentioned a few times about the newest version. Isn't 3.1.5 or something supposedly pretty bug-free as well? Where're the older ones again (think I may've deleted them unfortunatley)

[Bright Knight]

Nero Recode has worked spectacularly for me. No problems, easy to use, quick, and I seem to keep discovering other little nuances that make it the best for me.

Bright Knight

[lordsmurf]

Since Nero Recode is virtually identical to DVD Shrink, why is it on your loser list, out of curiosity?

- Gurm

Because the rest of Nero 6 likes to screw my system.

[markc32]

Firstly, to get glitches on 90%+ transcoding sounds like media problems.

Try - media rather than plus as they are a lot more compatible despite what they say!

Secondly, dvdshrink is better than dvd2one but none of them hold a candle to dvdrebuilder.

I did the two towers full disk encode and a 51% ratio has turned out fantastic. You will not get results like that with shrink, clonedvd whatever. They would pixelate guaranteed.

Transcoding algorithms are crap - use the encoders and you will be sound. CCE Basic is cheap but far better than dvd2one!

[a19980512]

Hi, i need some info regarding TMPEG, since you are all about quality,

I have 2 questions:

1. Forgive my newbieness, but to make a VCD/SVCD dont u need 224kbps audio at CBR? How did u do it with 64kbps audio?

2. How do u set TMPEG to focus on video quality (i have a lot of avi files which TMPEG destroys when i encode them to NTSC).


Thanks.

[Bright Knight]

My apologies for deviating from the topic a bit but if I could recommend one thing it would be to buy a DVD burner. I know not everyone can afford a burner but if you can spend a $100, you can find a Sony or Plextor 8x with a little internet research. It will be worth it and be a much greater pay-off than all the time you have to go through with TMPGEnc Plus (etc.) to make VCDs and SVCDs. It is just MY personal opionion but I've been there before, waited 24 hours to back up/encode etc. my Harry Potter DVD to two SVCDs. Looking back, I learned a lot but decrypting and encoding a disc for a dvd burn is a much simpler task that now only takes me about an hour. Sorry, I didn't really answer your question but in doing a lot of visiting to this site, I'd always find answers for those "newbie" questions, safe to say someone else will help you out too.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

markc32:
I guess it cant hurt to try the DVD-R's - I'll try it out. But as I already mentioned, I tried Paycheck with both a DVD+R and a DVD-RW (OK, its a RW but still the "-" format". What a noticed that the 3 pixelation sections were at the exact time scene, so it makes sense to me that its the in the encoded files. Beats me?

But Im definatetly curious abot this DVDrebuilder. Now if I canjust find a copy of CCE somewheres ...

a19980512:
Yes this is more about DVD than (S)VCD issues. I just joined the DVD bandwagon, so no worries! About your questios, simply go into the "Expert" section, go into "Audio", right click over btrate and simply unlock it. Then choose whatever rate you want, to the lowes of 64Kbs. Decent sound, but dont expect your ears to be blown off with a 5.1 surround system! Now that Im using DVD, quality audio is important to me now.

Anyways, Im still lost in the dark. Why, why, why has Shrink let me down? Im now doing Minority Report (146 mins), but feel like I cant trust Shrink 3.0B5 at 70%, movie and AC-6ch only (no menu/extras/etc). I feel like I will be just let down? So Im "trying" TMPEGEnc for my first DVD, at 2passVBR, and 12 hours later I'll see what happens. Until I look at DVDRebuilder, I just dont know what to do with my movies that do not fit into the 100% DVDShrink category.

Again, any other viewpoints, comments, or opinions are much appreciated!

Brennan

[lordsmurf]

Firstly, to get glitches on 90%+ transcoding sounds like media problems..... Transcoding algorithms are crap - use the encoders and you will be sound. CCE Basic is cheap but far better than dvd2one!

If you're talking to me, you missed what I said. I want software that is reliable 90% of the time, at least. Some of that buggy software crashes too much. I know MUCH about media, no need to tell me.

Transcoding is not crap. There are quite a few transcoders I'd take over encoders. CCE often adds noise to encodes, very obnoxious to watch, so in that regard, it's quite often not a whole lot better than a compressed-domain transcode (plus, it's a re-encode of an MPEG). That software is highly overrated (mostly because it's expensive, and presumed good for that reason alone, and quite easy to pirate). SOME PEOPLE DO NOT SEE NOISE AS MUCH AS OTHERS! I SEE NOISE! Just wanted to clear that up to avoid CCE-flamers. Compressed-domain transcoders can add noise too, but at least that only takes 14-45 minutes to add noise, not endless hours of encoding. Similar results, so I take the faster option. It's just a backup, after all. If I need a perfect version again, I'll buy it (the VALENTI method of backups).

Want some high quality? Test drive PROCODER (not a pirate version or cheap express version) or even MAINCONCEPT (new one, not a pirated hack, and with proper settings). It won't add noise. I won't really both to overly defend DVD2One. It does it's job, and quite well with normal-length movies. I'm sure CCE Basic is a slight improvement on it, but it's not all that excessive of an improvement (depending on source, and other variables), you're in the same quality ballpark.

So Im "trying" TMPEGEnc for my first DVD, at 2passVBR, and 12 hours later I'll see what happens.

I've got to tell you ... you may not like this either. TMPGENC is just not that good in 2-pass VBR and it's too slow in this mode, to boot. CQ is much better (though harder to control size). If you want a really good 2-pass program, look at Procoder or Mainconcept. Even CCE for 2-pass. I remember hearing the author optimized TMPGENC for CQ and sort of left 2-pass hanging.

[fritzi93]

Brennan, you could give DVDRebuilder a try with Quenc and Rejig (both freeware). One's an encoder, the other a transcoder. You'll also need Avisynth. If you find you like it, you could then get CCE, many claim it gives the best results possible. Not everyone thinks so, though. As for me, I wouldn't know. :P

[Saminai]

Ok there's a few things you need to know about DVD's and computers before you start putting down dvdshrink.
First of all, don't use deep analysis if your compression is 85% or above...its basically a waste.
Second, if the movie looks good on your COMPUTER, then its perfect. If it looks bad on your cheap no-name brand set top player and tv, then its your set top player or it could be your media.

Go get Ridata Ritek G04's 4x DVD-R. Don't get maxell, or memorex or any of those bogus brands that don't even make their own disks. Instead get Ridata, at least Ritek makes it own disks and they're usually cheaper anyway. I get them from rima.com

Your computer resolution/screen is much higher than your tv, even those high def tv's so if it looks good on your computer it's fine.
I had bad media before, and it caused all sorts of pixellation and weird effects...if you don't see that in powerdvd, then of course its the media or the player.

[lordsmurf]

Don't get maxell, or memorex or any of those bogus brands that don't even make their own disks. Instead get Ridata, at least Ritek makes it own disks and they're usually cheaper anyway. I get them from rima.com

Ummm.... No. .... www.nomorecoasters.com

[budz]

Go get Ridata Ritek G04's 4x DVD-R. Don't get maxell, or memorex or any of those bogus brands that don't even make their own disks. Instead get Ridata, at least Ritek makes it own disks and they're usually cheaper anyway. I get them from rima.com

Your computer resolution/screen is much higher than your tv, even those high def tv's so if it looks good on your computer it's fine.

I for one don't watch dvds on my computer. Why would one want to watch it off a computer to begin with is beyond me. I'd prefer watching a dvd movie off my 8 year old 32inch Sony XBR TV sitting in comfort on my black leather recliner or sofa. Your comment about not getting MAXELL or those bogus brands that don't even make their own disks is bull. MAXELL for your information does manufacture their own DVD-R. But at times will have TAIYO YUDEN manufacture for them because MAXELL can not keep up with demand. Also MAXELL'S DVD+R is manufactured by RICOH. So in a sense yes they don't manufacture their own.

As for RITEK there are so many other companies manufacturing for them that the quality control is bad resulting in imperfect dvd media. I've used RITEK but pcclub.com has raised their prices so I haven't purchased any in the last few months. I won't order from a online store because shipping costs for me is outrageous.

[Culley]

I have to say that I'm all for DVDShrink. It's freeware and it does what I need it to do. I simply don't mind splitting a movie over 2 discs if I must.

This isn't meant as a flame, but I'm old enough to remember having to get up and turn the channel on the TV, because we didn't have a remote, or having to switch out the tapes from the VCR So, switching out a DVD doesn't bother me at all, if it means I'm getting good PQ.

[virtual133]

I use Vegas Video 5 to take an AVI file and encode it to a 2-pass VBR Mpeg2 file. Even if it does take some time....it yields awesome results. Just converted a 2 hr VHS tape home video to DVD and the file size was 3.15GB!

[Gurm]

You know, every time I see this topic bounce back up to the top, I yell out:

DVDSHRINK IS TEH WINNAR!

LOL.

- Gurm

[macleod]

for the original poster, I have a few questions so I (and others) can put "pixelation" into perspective. What are you watching this on (TV brand,model, size, type) and dvd player and your connection to the TV. That may be part of the problem or the perception of the problem.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

OK, I think this thread has served its purpose, and time to come to a close. Lets review what I learned:

MEDIA, MEDIA, MEDIA!

I guess I realized something was F'd up when I tried American Wedding, no compression on movie, and it looked like $hit!

First few movies used Maxwell DVD+R:RICOHJPN-R01-002, and they had a few poblems. Next few movies were done on Memorex DVD+R:CMC MAG-F01-000 and had LOTS of problems. Yes, the worst of the worst media! At this time, being very frustrated, I tried "testers" on Memorex DVD+RW:RICOHJPN-W11-001, at 2X, and was surprised to see my movies ERROR-FREE! These were the exact same files taken off the DVD-/+R's, with the so-called errors, so it made sense it was the media problem. On a further test, I burnt back on the Maxwell DVD+R:RICOHJPN-R01-002, at 2X, and was again error free, hinting the $hitty DVD player I was using (see below).

At this time, I did my research (sorry guys!). I have concluded that the media is VERY IMPORTANT, and hence, updated all my user info on the DVD Media to our left <--- to help others with the FACTS, you get what you pay for! I guess these problems I was having, was even "amplified" by the fact I was using a (borrowed) Citizen DVD3838 - Please dont laugh!

To conclude this issue, what I was calling pixelation, is probably more accurate calling it "missed data reading", which gave me lots of "white blocks and blurring", and even audio skipping on the Memorex DVD+R:CMC MAG-F01-000's. Obviously the laser on my laptop is of better quality which would explain not having problems watching it with PowerDVD.

I've just done some other full movies with menus and extra, at 65-70%, and these came out flawless! I burnt at 2X to give a better burn, so my $hitbox home DVD player can handle it. It looks like this DVDShrink program (3.0B5 of course!) is one hell of a decent program after all. I now have my foot in my mouth

Thanks again to everyone for their advice and help ... like I said, I've just been in the DVD burner game for 5 days now, so much to learn!

Brennan

(* REMEMBER: The DVD Media section, and even everything in general to DVD players and burners, is VERY USEFULL information. Please everyone try to put in your own user data to keep this information as accurate as possible, evn if it may be time-consuming *)