***How? Capture Extremely Long VHS to DVD Data disk?***

[jjpslu]

Hi,

I'd like to convert very long VHS tapes, (6-8hrs/3-4 movies each), into the largest mpeg1 file that can fit on a DVD Data disk to burn as DVD Data in Nero, and purchasing a DVD Recorder is not an option. I'm interested in using my Asus TV Tuner card to accomplish this.

It would be acceptable to keep the original quality of the VHS Capture, although it would be optimal to "improve" upon it slightly with a software only noise/"TBC" filter of some sort.

The only "editing" I would do would be to possibly cut the mpeg1 into two or three mpeg1, should the entire original be too large for a single DVD Data disk. Would this minimal "editing" warrant capturing as mpeg1 as opposed to an .avi?

I'm currently using iuVCR to capture NTSC and TMPGEnc to Encode and would prefer to remain doing so, but am still uncertain as to the optimal capture and encoding settings in order to do so?

I have read alot of info, tried alot of apps and have visited many of the usual recommended sites, however, confusion still prevails.

Assistance with the easiest, efficient and not too in-depth method of doing this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Feel free to use the following format for your replies and email me directly if warranted.

Capturing:
- application?
- avi or mpeg1?
- all resolution, bitrate and audio settings?
Encoding:
- application?
- vcd or dvd?
- all resolution, bitrate and audio settings?

Thanx!

John
jjp1@optonline.net

[housepig]

I would say that what you should concern yourself with is the encoding stage. You need to figure out what bitrate to use that will give you a 4.7Gb mpeg file.

check the Bitrate Calculator on this site, under the Tools section, or check your encoder - some encoders, like TMPGenc, will let you specify an output size for your files.

[vandakeg]

If you're only storing the video as data, why not use Divx, Xvid, or WMV codecs? You could easily keep 8 hours of video under 4.3gb using any of those codecs.
With the Computer Specs you have listed, I can't imagine you'd have much of a problem capturing directly to one of those codecs. However, I've always been a fan of capturing to Huffy (or another lossless codec), then converting to a lossy codec. This allows more room for experimenting w/ bitrates and also allows for editing.
Then again, in your particular situation, there isn't much limiting you. You have a fast enough computer to capture right to divx using even very high bitrates, and your final file will still easily fit on a dvd.

[FulciLives]

MPEG-1 is only standard on a DVD if you use 352x240 NTSC or 352x288 PAL and either way that is actually less quality than what VHS is capable of.

If you want to do MPEG encoding then you are better off doing MPEG-2 at 352x480 NTSC or 352x576 PAL and with that resolution about the most you can fit on a DVD with acceptable quality is around 4 hours.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jjpslu]

Hi,

Thank you for the responses.

So far I am capturing using the following iuVCR settings to create an .avi:
NTSC 704x480 YUY2 29.970
MJPEG 19
PCM 48000 8bit mono

Now, is the general consensus that my ENCODING settings will enable me to allow for maximum hours on a DVD Data disk?

If so, what are the recommended settings to ontain the following:
4hrs on DVD Data Disk?
4+hrs on DVd Data Disk?

Thanx,

John

[FulciLives]

Hi,

Thank you for the responses.

So far I am capturing using the following iuVCR settings to create an .avi:
NTSC 704x480 YUY2 29.970
MJPEG 19
PCM 48000 8bit mono

Your settings are fine except for the audio. I would do PCM 48000 16-bit Stereo.

Now, is the general consensus that my ENCODING settings will enable me to allow for maximum hours on a DVD Data disk?

If so, what are the recommended settings to ontain the following:
4hrs on DVD Data Disk?
4+hrs on DVd Data Disk?

I'm not sure about something ... why do you keep saying DVD Data Disk? This is confusing! Do you want to create a "standard" DVD as in a DVD that will work in a standard DVD player? Saying DVD Data Disk implies something else!

Please clarify

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SatStorm]

4 Hours per DVD for equal VHS quality. For NTSC, 8 Hours per DVD at equal VHS quality isn't possible (it is only for PAL, when you use 352 x 288 mpeg 2 interlace VBR and filtered source)

You have to capture, filter and frameserve your source to your encoder. Then you have to encode offline. Takes forever (for 8 hours you need something close to 32 hours or so with a AMD 2600+ and TMPGenc) but it is worth it.

[jjpslu]

Allow me to clarify:

I'm only interested in capturing my VHS at equal to or slightly better quality than the source (6-8hrs on each tape).

After capturing alot smaller files in the past, as avi, and then encoding them in TMPGEnc (352x480), resulting in an mpg2, I have simply used Nero to create a DVD Data Disk; this Data disk is simply that - an mpg, aka data file, and NOT DVD Video, as mentioned by Fulcilives above.

Just think about how you can receive an mpg file through email, save it to your hard drive and simply copy and paste within Windows Explorer to your blank DVD as "Data." This is the raw analogy of what I'm hoping to do.

Since my DVD player recognizes these mpg2 Data disks very well, I would simply like to use this method, rather than getting into larger files & processes with DVD Video characteristics or Authoring.

Again, I just want a simple, foolproof Software method to get the most VHS quality capture onto a DVD+R.

As always, I appreciate all input and would like to hear more.

Thanx!

John
jjp1@optonline.net

[FulciLives]

Dosn't make any sense to make a DVD Data Disc for playback in a DVD player. Very few DVD players will play MPEG files that are not authored. Even though your DVD player does now chances are your next player will not.

The files still have to be DVD video compliant to work (again you should start with 16-bit 48k Stereo audio) so the DVD authoring stage actually adds very little "overhead" when it is all said and done.

If the DVD authoring stage scares you then please note that there are very simple-to-use programs such as TMPGEnc DVD Author.

Anyways to fit 4 hours on a single DVD disc you would want to try 352x480 resolution and encode with a video bitrate of approximately 2200kbps to 2300kbps if you use 256kbps audio (you should be using AC-3 format).

For 3 hours you can up the bitrate to about 3000kbps to 3100kbps which is the more sensible "level" of bitrate to use. Once you drop below 3000kbps your image quality could take a noticeable hit in quality. It all depends on how clean it is to begin with.

You should also use a "video noise" filter. The one built-in to TMPGEnc is fine but it will add a lot of time to your encoding. Might be faster to do the filtering in VirtualDub then frameserve to TMPGEnc. Using AviSynth to filter is the fastest method but is harder to use so expect a bit of a learning curve there although I highly recommend the AviSynth method.

For AC-3 encoding you can try the newest version of BeSweet (the latest BETA version is probably best) or if you want to try actually using a DVD authoring program then again I suggest TMPGEnc DVD Author along with the optional but highly regarded AC-3 encoder plug-in.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[spectroelectro]

I think your choice of mpeg-1 as the encoding format may trip you up. Oddly enough, you can actually get _smaller_ encoded video files if you use SVCD as opposed to mpeg-1. The reason for this is that mpeg-1 video is fixed at a data rate of 1100, while SVCD uses a variable data rate and can drop far below that. I regularly get 6 hours of SVCD on a playable DVD. Here's the data format I use: non-compliant SVCD format with 100 min 1800 av 6000 max encoded at 480 x 480 (use MainConcept or TMPGenc, doesn't matter). Then demux the SVCD mpg file and run ReJig on the m2v portion to squeeze an hour-long SVCD down to about 680 megs. This yields near-DVD video quality but in a very small space. Then do the header trick to convince your DVD player that the SVCD file is actually a DVD-compliant mpeg-2 file. Finally, import the m2v and ac3 files into your favorite DVD authoring app and burn to DVD.
While I do this with 6 hour-long TV show SVCD files, it should work just as well with a single 6-hour-long capture.
SVCDs with bitrates way out of spec have worked well for me. Extremely small in size, very high video quality -- less than the equivalent amount of data for an mpeg-1 file, believe it or not!
The only tricky part is that you must demux and then re-mux in TMPGenc telling TMPGenc to write out a DVD-compliant mpeg-2 header. Otherwise your DVD authoring application is liable to barf and give "non-compliant file" and refuse to burn the DVD.
Incidentlaly, DVDLab automates the entire process of importing & rewriting headers for and then burning SVCD files. So if you use DVDLab it's even simpler.
Bottom line? I've been able to squeeze 6 hours of SVCD onto a DVD with no problem,and the video quality is vastly superior to mpeg-1 VCD.

[FulciLives]

480x480 is NOT a valid resolution for the DVD video format.

Some DVD players can play a DVD that has 480x480 resolution but this is out-of-spec and not the norm.

Chances are most players cannot do this and as such this is not recommended.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jjpslu]

For testing purposes of future long VHS caps, I've captured to iuVCR:

6hr. 28min. CATV
88,441,361kb
704x480
Picvideo mjpeg
48000PCM 16b Stereo
MasterStream Audio

Resulting .avi is excellent quality with no sync issues throughout.

However, while trying to encode the captured file, TMPGEnc keeps crapping out around 32%, either during encoding to compliant MPEG1 or "non-compliant" SVCD. Error Message: "Write error occurred at address 00401CA6 of module 'TMPGEnc.exe' with 00040021." Settings are as recommended in above posts and elsewhere.

In addition, CCE, (guesswork settings?), also craps out midway. ("Write error occurred at address 00401CA6 of module 'TMPGEnc.exe' with 00040021.")

My PC should be able to handle such processing...so is there any known size limit restrictions for these encoders?

A friend suggested to capture in smaller .avi's and merge within TMPGEnc as batch. Would this be the only/optimal solution, if there actually are size limitations? Any registry hacks for resolving this?

I would hate to have to set an alarm clock and keep getting up to stop the capture process every couple of hours, and hope that this doesn't mean that I have to switch to PowerVCR with hackable filesize limits or VirtualVCR Scheduler.

Thanx for your time and assistance!

John

[SatStorm]

Frameserve and it won't crash...

[FulciLives]

That happened to me once.

I had a capture that twice in a row stopped at the exact same point in TMPGEnc.

This was using AviSynth (which is a form of frameserving) but it finally worked when I loaded the video into VirtualDubMod and then frameserved to TMPGEnc.

Sometimes "odd" errors happen like that with a capture although I only ever had it happen that one time.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SaSi]

I think that a good option would be to use MainConcept MPEG encoder to both capture and encode in real time.

You can fit 6-8 hours on a DVD disk at a rather low bitrate, however, if you capture at 352 x 240 or 352 x 480 you can select a bitrate of 1800 or 2200kbps. Use a bitrate calculator to fine tune the bitrate.

MainConcept can capture and encode in either MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 (I would choose MPEG-2) in high quality if you have a P4/2.4GHz or higher.

Choose the correct bitrate during capture and in 6-8 hours you will have an MPEG file ready to burn on DVDR

[jjpslu]

I will try using the recommended VirtualDubMod, then framserve into TMPGEnc, and I'll post the results next week.

Much appreciation to y'all for your timely responses.

Thanx!

John

[jjpslu]

Does anyone have recommendations for a guide or more specifically, screenprints/steps/settings on how to actually capture and encode to MPEG2 real-time within mainConcept in one fell swoop?

Thanx!