Just to update my previous post.
I baught a couple of Mitsubishi branded DVD+R DL disc (AUD$13 each)and used DVD Decrypter ISO Read and ISO Write. Burned one at 4x and the other at 2.4x.
Results were: they both played perfectly in Denon 2200, Samsung DVD-V72K and all my computer drives exactly the same as the originals (layer breaks and all).
Now I know this method works for 1:1 copies, I'll wait till the price comes down and then try them in some friends players to see how compatable they are with theirs. Below is the detalis of one of the Mitsubishi burnt disc.
PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD-117 1.07 (ATA)
Current Profile: DVD-ROM
Disc Information:
Status: Complete
Erasable: No
Sessions: 1
Sectors: 4,100,192
Size: 8,397,193,216 bytes
Time: 911:11:17 (MM:SS:FF)
Physical Format Information (Last Recorded):
Disc ID: MKM-001-00
Book Type: DVD-ROM
Part Version: 1
Disc Size: 120mm
Maximum Read Rate: Not Specified
Number of Layers: 2
Track Path: Opposite Track Path (OTP)
Linear Density: 0.293 um/bit
Track Density: 0.74 um/track
First Physical Sector of Data Area: 196,608
Last Physical Sector of Data Area: 16,525,983
Last Physical Sector in Layer 0: 2,274,015
Cheers
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MACCA350--just got a few dvd+RDL 2.4speed,iso read/iso write,with dvddecrypter, and did a full backup of the original dvd9.
worked perfectly on both discs i tried.verbatims.
layer breaks and all.worked perfectly in my old lg5620home theatre system,my ps2,xbox,dansai,pacific1002,schneider852,my parents sony dvd player,and an old jvc(gold finished dvd player-no markings of model type as its been tinkered with over a period of time.
if i was to recommend a DL burning programme it would have to be dvddecrypter,as that kept the layer breaks the way the original dvd9 was.
before this,i had sporadic results from copytodvd,and nero.
im a happy bunny now,but all i need is the price to come down.
i got my 2 discs for £8,local pc shop.think he felt sorry on me,that and it didnt look like hed shifted any recently -
RottenFoxBreath, glad to see your happy with the results
I've tried Nero, Sonic and a couple of others but found DVD Decrypter to produce the best results for me. I've been using it for about about 2 years exclusivly and it's kept me happy. Its simple and made specifically for dvd ripping and burning and is a very powerful little tool.
Cheers -
guns1inger,
try your local computer store (the smaller ones not the big retailers) or buy online (ebay, etc). Happy hunting -
Originally Posted by MACCA350
What's in question is the Superbit DVD versions. These do not have a layer break because it is non-seamless. What Edmund Blackadder is saying is that can DVD Decrypter or any other burning software know where to put a layer break like Recordnow does? Recordnow is the only one I found so far that does. -
Originally Posted by tommyoz
Originally Posted by tommyoz -
Originally Posted by Edmund Blackadder
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Originally Posted by tommyoz
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Has anyone tried DVD Decrypter to ISO Read-> ISO Write a Superbit dvd? I read through the posts but couldn't find any that said they actually tried it.
The ISO Read-> ISO Write method should create an exact copy that should play in the same manner as the original (assuming no media or burning incompatibility issues are present, I know I had a media incompatitility problem with Verbatim DL disc's but this was rectified with the Mitsubishi DL disc's).
What Edmund Blackadder is saying is that can DVD Decrypter or any other burning software know where to put a layer break like Recordnow does? Recordnow is the only one I found so far that does.
Cheers
BTW 4x DL burn took about 25min for 8Gig -
Originally Posted by MACCA350
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Hey guys, here's something interesting. I ran the DVD-R DL discs through NERO CD/DVD SPEED and this it what I got.
I was'nt expecting such high read rates -
Originally Posted by MACCA350
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Hey everyone, I'm new.
I just wanted to start by saying thanks to everyone who has put so much time, effort, and money into figuring out what works and what doesn't. I stumbled upon this subject a week or so ago while trying to find info on DL burning. I spent at least two hours glued to my monitor reading every post as I was waiting for my new Pioneer DVR-108 to arrive and wanted to be as prepared as possible. When it did finally arrive, I was more than ready to get started. I have since made 3 DL backups, which to my knowlege all 3 have been a complete success due nearly 100% to the intelligent questions and answers posted HERE. Thanks again.
I actually did have some information... it may or may not be interesting. I have 3 stand alone DVD players (Pioneer DV-250, Playstation 2 V7, and Mintek DVD-1600). I wanted to test all 3's abillity to handel the layer break on my first two backups.
The first title I tested was The X-Files DTS Edition. I ripped the entire disc contents into an ISO with DVD Decrypter and burned it with Nero 6.6.0.0. The title had a proper layer break before and after the disc was burned. All 3 DVD players seemed to play the disc fine and transitioned from layer 0 to layer 1 fine. The Pioneer had a very slight pause (1 second or less), the PS2 had a medium pause (about 2 seconds), and the Mintek had a long pause (at least 3 seconds or more).
The second backup title I tested was Underworld Superbit Edition. I ripped the entire disc contents into an ISO with DVD Decrypter, then later decided it might be a better idea to have the disc contents in a hard disk folder instead and copied them from the ISO via Daemon Tools. My initial idea was to just emulate the disc image with Daemon Tools and then burn from there with RecordNow, but then I decided RecordNow may want to access and modify the original files (insert proper layer break) before burning and I wanted things to go as smoothly as possible. So I burned the entire disc contents from a hard disk folder with RecordNow, and it DID contain a proper layer break after burning (but not before). The results were all the same as before for the Pioneer and the PS2, but the Mintek did something quite unexpected. It played seemlessly through the layer break as if it wasn't even there.
That was the moment I decided to run back to my computer and sign up here at video help so I could simply ask "why?". But upon creating my account, I found out I had to "sit on it" for two days before I could do anything... which gave me some time to think on the issue. I remembered a post further back (actually it's been in several posts) about most DVD players needing the proper layer break and flag in the IFO (at least for backups) or they "choke" upon layer transition. On the other hand, a few DVD players don't seem to need it, they handel it purely on hardware transition. My hypothesis was\is perhaps the Pioneer and PS2 require the proper layer break, thus they pause on transition as before, while perhaps the Mintek does not require the proper layer break and was able to play on seemlessly as the original superbit disc was constructed (seemless layer break). Any ideas? -
Originally Posted by justin121032
Welcome to this forum! Anyway, you have pretty much answered your own question. Yes, some players absolutely require a layer break flag in IFO, while some others don't care one way or another. Actually, to be precise, the majority of players don't seem to care about the flag, but still there's enough of players out there that do, and therefore we, the DL-burning people, should be aware of how to satisfy as many DVD players as possible.
The brand names don't seem to matter either, as there are some players with the same brand name that need the break flag in IFO, while some others don't. So, it's better be safe than sorry, especially if this is going to be part of your business, or even a simple distribution to your friends and relatives.
P.S. (non-layer-break-related): I have tried Ridata RITEKD01 DVD+R DL discs on both of my Sony burners, DRU-700A and DRU-710A (which are really rebadged LiteOn's), with different firmwares, and unfortunately the second layer comes out very poorly, with high error counts in KProbe and stuttered playback in one of my DVD players. The first layer records wonderfully though. Oh well, back to Verbatim DL's for me. At least you don't have to buy them online anymore - WalMart has tons of them - though still for $29.88 for a 3-pack -
Best Buy has the Verbatim 3-packs as well.
"The avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote." -
Hello crowd,
Here's my definitive and last (for now) method of creating your own universally compatible Double Layer DVD+R's in DVDMaestro and RecordNow 7.2, with total control of the layer break:
I have finally tried authoring DVD9 in Maestro with later making an IMG/ISO file with selected layer break chapter point, but unfortunately that layer break instruction within IMG file is incompatible with RecordNow 7.2. I thought it would be, but it wasn't . RecordNow does recognize the non-seamless playback flag in the IMG file, but unfortunately does not want to put the layer break in the same spot. What's even worse is that RecordNow doesn't even insert a correct layer break flag in IFO in Burn Image mode. So therefore, the only way to do it correctly is in Data Mode.
So if you want a total control over where you'd like to put the layer break in a long title/movie do this:
After compiling VIDEO_TS in Maestro, go to image creation tool and select dual-layer as your target. Then see which chapter points Maestro permits you to set as a layer break point without any warnings (like the size of the layer is too large, for example). Sometimes there are many chapters available for this and sometimes there's only one. If you have a few then simply select the one that would be the least noticeable for the layer break and remember it. Close Maestro and don't do anything to your compile.
Next open PgcEdit. In PgcEdit click File -> Open DVD. Find you VIDEO_TS folder. When it opens, in the left frame look for your needed title, for example Title 1 and double-click it. In the new opened window look bor Layer Break table. Then simply put the layer break checkmark in the box next to the desired chapter (but only one of those chapters that Maestro suggested you for layer break). Don't change anything else and click OK. Then in the main window select File -> Save DVD and close PgcEdit.
Now the very important part: Don't forget to go to your VIDEO_TS folder and delete/remove PgcEdit_backup folder inside of it (it contains the original IFO files). If you don't - your DVD will not be playable. Oh, and it also wouldn't hurt to delete the LAY file.
Next simply burn with RecordNow 7.2 in Data Mode and you should have a layer break in a desired spot. It worked like a charm for me.
Another important thing: Once all this been set, try not to add any other large files (DVD-ROM part) to your DL DVD as this will shift the center point of the possible layer break and if so RecordNow 7.2 will either put the layer break in its own chosen spot or refuse to burn at all if there's not enough space to do a good job with layer break.
And as I was bragging earlier, RecordNow 7.2 is currently the only software that does DL burning properly, according to DVD-Video specifications. DVD Decrypter might be good for cloning existing DVD9 discs, but for your own DL's that you create from scratch, the above method is the only one I've found to be the most compatible.
So there you go. If this method produces DVD9's that are not playable on your player, then you have DL media physical issues and not authoring related problems, and no other authoring method will most likely help you. So try it now! -
Hi all, definite newbie here!
I lent my Dad my copy of "Deer Hunter" a few weeks back, and knowing what my siblings (3,5,7,17,19 - don't ask!) are like, I thought it prudent to back it up first!
Sadly my premonition was correct and I currently have the DVD in a lab trying to decipher precisely what it is (Jam? Chocolate?) is wedged firmly into the deep gouges on the bottom of the disk!
I copied it originally using DVDShrink 3.2 as a series of .vob/.ifo files onto my hard drive which is how it currently resides. Having read this post over cuppa I've discovered now that perhaps i should use Decrypter instead. But enough bush beating...to the point!
I took your advice and tried to restore it to a dual layer disk using Sonic 7.2, but Sonic wouldn't even recognise the disk! I inserted it, told it to burn (data mode, as suggested) and it just sat there for a few moments before asking me to insert a disk. I tried it in Nero and it plays the "copyright" notice before just sitting there for a bit and not doing much more. Any suggestions where I'm going wrong?
My next question, purely on a research basis, is regarding DVD Decrypter. Following this failure I thought I'd try a backup of a disk I have here (Delicatessen). I ISO read and ISO wrote, all in taking about 90 mins. The resulting disk read fine in "My Computer" but then crashed it when I tried to play it - I put this down to a tired PC and put it in my old Logix player - worked a treat, put it in my PS2 - ditto, put it in my Yamada 6600 DivX/DVD player and I got the dreaded "no disc" error. I checked the layering with PGCedit and all looked fine (to my untrained eye)
Once more, any ideas what's up? Does anyone have any experience of playing backups on a Yamada 6600 (or any other DivX player)?
Look forward to your educated responses!!
Cheers. -
Originally Posted by TobyRT
At which stage doesn't RecordNow recognize your DVD+R DL disc? When you first insert it or when you attempt to burn? Does it even show that a DVD+R DL with 8152MB capacity available is inserted? Which burner do you use? All these things we need to know before trying to determine your problem.
Cheers! -
I have followed this thread and it has helped me a lot. I have already created 4 expensive coasters and one good copy and I need some help:
1. If I rip a DVD using DVD Decrypter's ISO Read mode and use Nero to burn the image, will the original layer break position be preserved?
2. Will any of the above be affected if I removed PUOs (IFO/BUP and VOB) while ripping with DVD Decrypter?
3. Nero and DVD Decrypter handle Book Type when burning. If I use RecordNow, how can I set the Book Type?
I am using a Sony DRU 700A and the latest versions of Nero and DVD Decrypter. I am considering RecordNow (have not made any burns yet, just saw that 7.3 has been released).
Thanks for any help with the above.
Nicos
My story about the coasters follows. You can see the results of CD-DVD Speed on all 5 disks here.
First I made two attempts with Verbatim and RiData using Nero in DVD-Video mode (that was before I found this thread). As I now know Nero misplaced the layer break and the disks cannot be used in some DVD Players (they play well in newer DVD-ROM drives and DVD Players, so they are not full coasters )
Then I tried using DVD Decrypter for ISO Read - Write mode and solved the layer change issues, but it seems that DVD Decrypter has some poor results with the actual burning process in my setup. All 3 disks play in all players I have tried, but I get weird results with CD-DVD speed (read errors for Verbatim and RiData, weird graph with Imation). Please note that the burns I did with Nero came out OK as far as CD-DVD speed was concerned.
Any ideas why this is happening? Maybe Edmund Blackadder who also has the DRU 700A can help...
In order to solve my problems I thought of burning DVD Decrypter's ISO images using Nero (hence my questions 1 & 2 above). Or I could use RecordNow, but I do not know how to change Book Type using it. -
What Ive found so far...
Ive tried 3 different branded DL media in my 3 players (Denon DVD-2200, Samsung DVD-V72K, XMS-150)
Heres how it boiled down:
Method - DVDDecrypter, ISO Read ->ISO Write
Burner- Pioneer 108, firm v1.18
Mitsubishi (MKM-001-00) burned 6 at 2.4x and 4x
Denon - all Play Perfectly
Samsung - all Play Perfectly
XMS - all Play Perfectly
Verbatim (MKM-001-00) burned 2 at 2.4x and 4x
Denon - all Play Perfectly
Samsung - all Play layer 1 fine but choke on layer 2 (bad freezing, unwatchable)
XMS - all Play layer 1 fine but layer 2 has medium freezing
Ridata (RITEK-D01-01) Burned 2 at 2.4x
Denon - all Play layer 1 fine but layer 2 has medium freezing
Samsung - Wont even load, after numerous attempts still shows Disc Error
XMS - all Play layer 1 fine but layer 2 has medium freezing
Now I know that Verbatim and Mitsubishi both have the same Media code, my only explination for the different results is mabey the verbatims i got were out of a bad batch as i have not tried them since the first purchase.
But as you can see there is a difference between Mitsubishi and Ridata's end results.
Hope this helps anyone, Cheers -
Originally Posted by nicos_k
Here's the link to the patched VY05 firmware for Sony DRU-700A which will autobitset all your "+" DVD's to DVD-ROM booktype:
sony-700a-vy05-autobitset.zip
IF you wish to bitset manually before each burn with your current firmware (except the official VY05 which did not have bitsetting support), then get this utility:
http://www.liteonit.com/ODD/English/e_downloads/e_utility.asp
However, I would advise you not use any current firmware that is newer than VY05, because LiteOn/Sony (LiteOn is the real manufacturer of DRU-700A) did something to it and now some of the DVD drives/players have trouble recognizing DVD+R DL if it's burned with VY06 or newer firmware. Once I went back to VY05 everything's back to normal. Though now I'm using Pioneer DVR-A109XL to burn DVD+R DL up to 6x speed.
And to save yourself some headaches and more expensive coasters, please forget everything else like DVD Decrypter and Nero to burn you DVD+R DL and simply use RecordNow 7.2 or 7.3 in Data Disc mode. First of course decrypt files in VIDEO_TS folder using DVD Decrypter in File Mode. This is the only way that works for me. One of the backups I did in Nero in image read/write mode plays fine on some players, but messes up on second layer playback - lots of pixelation (even thought the layer break was not an issue in that particular copy). And that is not the kind of pixelation that's caused by poor hardware/disc burn quality, it's got something to do with the way Nero recorded that second layer. KProbe scans were good on that disc. But, the same movie burned with RecordNow plays everywhere without any problems.
So, download that patched VY05 firmware, get yourself RN 7.2/7.3 and you should be fine at least with Verbatim DVD+R DL discs. And please post more when you have some new results.
Cheers. -
OK, things are looking much better
Got the (older) VY05 firmware with auto-bitsetting and used RN 7.2 in data mode and everything worked great (both disk and layer change) with Verbatim media (my last one...):
Thanks a lot, especially Edmund Blackadder for you help.
Cheers -
Originally Posted by nicos_k
Now, I realize there are many variables, but if the majority of other members of Videohelp.com forum at least tried burning DVD+R DL this way, we'd most likely see a lot less complaints about DVD+R DL format . -
I'm happy to have found this thread again because I'm now curious to get into some DL burning of my own. Having just gotten my tax refund, I put in an order to Newegg for some computer upgrades and added in a LiteOn SOHW-1633S drive (thought of getting the Sony 710A, but it costs $25 more and is, essentailly, the same drive! ).
The drive is shipped w/ Nero but I'll be looking into getting RecordNow 7.2 (or is it 7.3, now?) since there seems to be some questionable concerns about using DVDDecypter. All I want to do is make clone backups of a few films onto DL w/ the layer break exactly the same as the original and get it right the first time. I'll be rereading this entire thread before I actually start burning, but do I have basic understanding that RN will do this?
As for media, the only place I've found so far that has a bit of a selection is Meritline. In fact, they have the Verbatim 3-packs w/ an $8 mail-in rebate which would make the disks 5 bucks and some change each. They also have 6- and 9-packs which allow you to send 1, 2 or 3 rebates (for each 3-pack!). Since I'm starting out, I'll get the good stuff and not Ridata or whatever else they have. (I hope this last paragraph isn't interpreted as spam.)Like a flea circus at a dog show! -
Originally Posted by Madz
I still haven't tried RN 7.3 as Sonic has not replied yet to my question about free/discounted upgrade possibility for legal owners of version 7.2. They say it adds DVD Forum's DVD-R DL support. -
Thanx for the reply EBA, I took alook at Sonic's site and it's not as expensive as I thought it'd be for the download version. Couldn't find any information, however, on whether or not there's a discounted upgrade price for bundled version owners (my copy came w/ a Sony 510A). But regardless, the price isn't a killer (also assuming basic RN and not RN Deluxe).
Like a flea circus at a dog show! -
Edmund (or anyone who's tried),
so far the info in this thread is for making 1:1 backups. Will I introduce problems if I edit the IFO's to skip playback of the FBI warnings and movie previews? anyone tried?
Also, has anyone tried the latest release of Nero (released a couple of weeks ago)? Is it now working with dual layer???I don't have a bad attitude...
Life has a bad attitude! -
Originally Posted by leebo
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