DVD+R9 Double Layer first burn: problems with layer switch

[garryheather]

A little heads-up for the 109 users out there - there's a new firmware on Pioneer's website promoting further improvement in writing dual layer media:

http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/content/support/support/software.html#fdvdwriter

I've also got another update for RN's PX engine from Sonic in an attempt to solve my problem with D01 media, but haven't had the incentive to try it out yet.

[RottenFoxBreath]

ive used that firmware before,from the jap site.
doesnt do much,only improves readability of DAO discs.
id forget about DL writing at the moment,and wait it out for the 110.
the 108 was a good +DL writer,the 109 is shite,(firmware was major poopoo)maybe theyll get the balance correct.

[kenowell]

i get good results with clonedvd latest version

[garryheather]

ive used that firmware before,from the jap site.
doesnt do much,only improves readability of DAO discs.

Not according to the changelog:

http://wwwbsc.pioneer.co.jp/product-e/ibs/device_e/dev00002r_e.html



Why do you think the firmware is so bad in the 109 - I can't say I've had any problems with it (or any of my Pioneer's) so far...

[MaxBlack]

...I've also got another update for RN's PX engine from Sonic in an attempt to solve my problem with D01 media...

I filed a trouble report with Sonic also, not only for RITEK D01 but I also am having trouble w/Verbatim 16x DVD+R SL "Printable White Surface" (MCC004). Can't get good burns at 16x, tho 12x seems to be fairly reliable. Odd as some MCC004 NON-printable Verbatims burn just fine at 16x!!?

Hopefully they will advise me of an engine update also.

[orion940]

This is an interesting (and long-lived) thread.

I am going through the DVD-DL unintentional experiments. I have a Plextor 716A and using Memorex (Ritek) media.

I burned a DL with Nero, and it crapped out while playing on my 3 yo Sony Player on the layer switch. I burned the same DL with Roxio, and it played like a charm. I have some DL's that I burned with Nero that are OK.

With the coasters I made, the Ritek's turned out to be more expensive than Verbatims.

I wish I found this thread one day earlier!! Thanks to all who posted to it.

O.

[Edmund Blackadder]

I filed a trouble report with Sonic also, not only for RITEK D01 but I also am having trouble w/Verbatim 16x DVD+R SL "Printable White Surface" (MCC004). Can't get good burns at 16x, tho 12x seems to be fairly reliable. Odd as some MCC004 NON-printable Verbatims burn just fine at 16x!!?

I don't think that's a Sonic issue. Those 16x inkjet printable Verbatims (MCC) are not that stellar in my opinion (I tried the "-" version from Sam's Club). It's not really a dye issue, but I think they are too heavy. At times no matter with what software, burner or at what speed I've burned them at (even at 4x), they pixelate once in awhile on one of my players during the chapter changes. That sort of behavior I've only seen on DVD's with paper labels. So my conclusion is they are either too thick or too heavy. By the way I burned them with Prassi ONES, and not even with Sonic's RecordNow.

[jobboman]

Sonic’s RecordNow Deluxe Version 7.3 did not add a Layer break flag!

Hi everyone,
Many thanks for such an excellent forum, I have been studying these pages for many days now and I thought that I had found the solution to my problem of not getting a layer break inserted into my Dual Layer DVD Burns.
I was wondering if anyone could let me know what I might be doing wrong?
I will explain all the technical details in a moment but in short I have been trying to create a Dual Layer DVD disc of a home movie (Sister-In-Laws Wedding to be exact).

Overview of creation process:-
The first burn that I created was done with ULead’s ‘DVD Workshop V2’
(With latest updates & Patches).
During this first burn I also selected the option to ‘Produce Disk Image File (ISO).
Once the disc has been created it seems to play fine through the layer switch on my Bush DVD player, but freezes and won’t play past the layer switch on my Pioneer DVD player!
As I would like to produce many of these discs for friends and family, I would of course like to make them as universally compatible as possible.
After reading this forum for many hours I decided to purchase Sonic’s RecordNow which I was confident would solve my problem.
I loaded the disk image file (ISO) that I had previously created with ‘DVD Workshop’ and simply selected ‘Burn’.
I know that this forum explains that RecordNow should be used in Data Mode, but I am unsure what this means!
As stated at the beginning of this posting the disc that was created, still did not have a Layer break added. (I have since verified this with ifoEDIT).
I would love to know how to get the layer switch to work correctly.
It would be nice to try the ‘DVD Maestro tool’ but it seems a shame to have to pay for yet more software when I already have what I consider to be perfectly adequate DVD authoring software.


Technical details:-
Disc content - Wedding video.mpg (~7.7gb) – Created and edited using ULead’s Videostudio Ver 7.
Disc Type - Verbatim DVD+R DL - burned at 2.4x (with bitsetting set to DVD-ROM via ‘Booktype Utility’ tool).
Burner – LiteOn SHOW 1653
1st Burn Software – Ulead’s DVD Workshop V2 (Disk image file created at the same time)
2nd Burn Software - RecordNow Deluxe 7.3 (Using -> ‘Open previously created ISO file’ and burn).

Many thanks in advance for any suggestions/ideas.

[-jsl-]

You don't want to create an ISO if you're going to burn with Recordnow because it won't set the layer break then.
Either just author to a VIDEO_TS folder and then burn in "data mode" in Recordnow or if you want more control over the layer break you can try the PGCedit method (I haven't tried it myself yet but it looks to be working according to posts @doom9).

[jobboman]

Thanks for the fast response,
I think that I am beginning to understand what I have done wrong.
This thread is so large it can be hard to find the information that you are specifically after.
However I can have no complaints because it has been absolutely invaluable!

Summary of RecordNow's correct usage:-
What I need to do is simply open RecordNow and use the ‘Make Data Disc’ option.
Then simply drag and drop the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders.

One final thought:-
Because I am happy with the DVD disc that I have made (Obviously apart from the missing layer break).
Would it be best to use DVDdecrypter on this disc and rip the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS to my hard drive, and then use these ripped folders for dragging into RecordNow?
Lastly, do I need to drag and drop anything else other than VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS?
Thanks once again,

[Edmund Blackadder]

Because I am happy with the DVD disc that I have made (Obviously apart from the missing layer break).
Would it be best to use DVDdecrypter on this disc and rip the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS to my hard drive, and then use these ripped folders for dragging into RecordNow?
Lastly, do I need to drag and drop anything else other than VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS?

Yes, ripping with DVD Decrypter into AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS and then burning in RN in Data Mode will work just fine. You don't need to drop anything else into your Data job, unless you want to (some other files for DVD-ROM part). And yes, don't ever use ISO in RecordNow for DL burns. Only Data Mode for VIDEO_TS folders, or GI images for exact clones.

And please let us know how your Pioneer DVD player goes through layer break when you burn the DL in Data Mode.

[MaxBlack]

Those 16x inkjet printable Verbatims (MCC) are not that stellar in my opinion (I tried the "-" version from Sam's Club). It's not really a dye issue, but I think they are too heavy...

Well, they may be poor quality discs, but I can't buy the "too thick or too heavy" explanation. They're within a gram of each other, if not exactly the same (MCC004 Printable vs. non-). Yeah, I weighed 'em on a pretty good scale I have here (clever, those Chinese).

Would it be best to use DVDdecrypter on this disc and rip the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS to my hard drive, and then use these ripped folders for dragging into RecordNow?

You can do this but it's unnecessary extra effort since your disc in not encrypted. If you want to verify that all is readable, a good utility is "Nero CD/DVD Speed" v4.01 available free at www.cdspeed2000.com. Just click the last tab "Scan Disc". I use this routinely since finding these bad Verbatims. Wonder if Sam's will take-back 95 out of a 100 spindle!!!?!!

[tomlomeo]

Does anyone know how to burn a DVD DL disk from 2 or 3 DVD single layer movies?????

[jobboman]

Just to let you all know,
I have now burned a Dual Layer DVD with RecordNow in the ‘Make data disc’ mode.
I had been waiting for my next batch of Verbatim DL disks to arrive.
It has been a total success , ifoEDIT shows that a layer break had been inserted at the start of one of my chapters, and my Pioneer DVD Player plays the disc successfully with only a slight pause noticeable when switching layers.
Thanks to everyone for the guidance.

[MaxBlack]

...I've also got another update for RN's PX engine from Sonic in an attempt to solve my problem with D01 media, but haven't had the incentive to try it out yet.

Garry what was the "update" Sonic presented to you? I too was advised to try another engine, but it looks to me like it is OLDER than what I have w/7.3!!!!??!!

The files they said to try are labeled as version 1.8.34.500, and the Px files that I have installed already are 2.0.58.500. Doesn't look like an "update" but rather a "revert-to".

Maybe my files were not installed by RN7.3, but honestly I don't know of any other app I have that would use the PX Engine. Can someone else here w/RN7.3 look at the Properties of Px.dll (there are other files of course) and tell us the version you have?

[Edmund Blackadder]

The files they said to try are labeled as version 1.8.34.500, and the Px files that I have installed already are 2.0.58.500. Doesn't look like an "update" but rather a "revert-to".

Maybe my files were not installed by RN7.3, but honestly I don't know of any other app I have that would use the PX Engine. Can someone else here w/RN7.3 look at the Properties of Px.dll (there are other files of course) and tell us the version you have?

Mine is also 2.0.58.500, and that is a fresh install on a recently installed operating system. So there were no updates to it. It appears that Px 2.0.58.500 is the original version for RN 7.3.

[MaxBlack]

Mine is also 2.0.58.500, and that is a fresh install on a recently installed operating system. So there were no updates to it. It appears that Px 2.0.58.500 is the original version for RN 7.3.

It occurred to me though, after I posted, that maybe I don't understand Sonic's methodology for tracking changes. For example, the About... box doesn't track the file versions, i.e. it says Engine: 200b58a, 1.1.26.

I suppose I should be brave and install the "update" and look at About... to see what it says then. Worst that could happen is, I'd have to re-install 7.3 again.

Or maybe I'll wait for Garry to check-in.

[garryheather]

Sorry for the delay, guys - bloody work got in the way !

The versions they have sent me so far mean my installation was / claims to be build 730B75H, engine 202b45a, 1.1.33.

That solved the problem of the layer break on D01 media, but had the worst transfer rate of any burn I have ever seen and failed to verify long before the layer break. It was a result, but talk about a mixed blessing.

I'm not convinced about their latest suggestion either - I think they're grabbing at straws:

"Update your Firmware:
http://patches.sonic.com/DTG_DOCS/CD.DVD_info_firmware.htm

Still having problems?

Please go to Start, Run, msconfig, select the SELECTIVE STARTUP radio button and then uncheck the LOAD STARTUP ITEMS box. Then select the Services tab, check the box to Hide Microsoft Services, and then select to Disable all Services. Once this is done, press APPLY and then OK. The program will now ask you to reboot. Once the computer is booted back up, test to see if the problem is still happening.

Also try going into My Computer, Control Panel, System, Hardware tab, Device manager, DVD/CD-ROM Drives, then select your burner and uninstall it by right clicking on it. Once uninstalled, just restart.

Try reinstalling the software."

Yeah, right !

[MaxBlack]

...The versions they have sent me so far mean my installation was / claims to be build 730B75H, engine 202b45a, 1.1.33.

That solved the problem of the layer break on D01 media, but had the worst transfer rate of any burn I have ever seen and failed to verify long before the layer break. It was a result, but talk about a mixed blessing...

Was the file you downloaded named "pxengine1_08_34a.exe"? That's what they pointed me to.

To clarify what you're saying, before the new engine RN was aborting during burning, w/errors at-or-before the layer break. Now, it is getting all the way thru the burn, but fails on verify? I assume you are guessing at the layer-break point, cuz all RN shows you is a progress bar.

I'm going to try the update pxengine1_08_34a.exe tonight, and see what RN's About... box reports.

p.s. Sorry about "work" getting in the way of your fun. Myself, I gave it up a couple yrs ago. Glad I saved my pennies for early retirement!

Edit: Running the executable above, which claimed to "update my Sonic PX engine" did not change my About... box info at all!!? Yeah, I rebooted. No change to RN7.3. Garry can you tell me the name of the updater file they told you of (I know from where to download it)?

Edit Again: I whined a little more to Sonic and they gave me the "unreleased to the public" version you have Garry. Unfortunately I don't have a disc to try it on at the moment...

[garryheather]

The last updater I had was pxengine2_02_45a.exe.

I can confirm the fault I was seeing with D01 media (and only D01 media...) was the burning aborted at the layer break. It's pretty easy to spot just by the bar graph if you watch it at the transition - for starters it obviously happens around the 50% mark, but there is also a brief moment where the recorder stops and goes through it's recalibration and focus phase for the second layer - it's at this point RecordNow aborted... almost like a badly handled time-out condition.

By determining where the layer break would have been and playing it back with PowerDVD showed the data abruptly stopped at precisely where the second layer would have been accessed.

Good here, innit ?

[krduncan]

I have been having an interesting problem, and have discovered a most peculiar solution. I have a Pioneer 108 and a Pioneer 109 both installed on the same machine. I have been burning DL using RN 7.3. The problem is that I have been burning an abnormally high number of coasters (very expensive). I have been making backups of my Babylon 5 series by ripping the files down to VIDEO_TS using DVD Decrypter and then burning using RN in the data disk mode. My 108 has been a champ normally, so that is what I had been using. I just noticed yesterday that RN sees 2 drives, but they are both listed as 108s and it won't access the 109 (tested by selecting both drives in RN and trying the "eject" button -> both times ejecting the 108). The symptom of the coaster problem is my entire computer freezing mid-burn, always at different spots. So, I did a little experimentation. I disabled the 108 in device manager and lo and behold, RN sees the 109 properly. If I then go and re-enable the 108, RN sees 2 109s.... very strange. So, I disabled the 108 again and tried burning with the 109. Since then, I have burned 12 discs without a single coaster! I double checked in DVD Decrypter, and DD sees both drives individually when I have them enabled... It seems then that RN has a problem seeing 2 Pioneer drives in the same system... Does anyone else have any suggestions about this? Am I just crazy and missing something? Oh, and I AM using Verbatim DL media.

[bmiller]

I don't know if it's a problem with media,or just RNM 7.3,but half the dual layer burns i've done get errors during finalizing.Although they still play ok,there is still something wrong.This happened using ritek D01 discs,which i have since given up on.They only work in about 60% of the players i've tried them in.Copy to dvd works without errors on these discs.
Verbatim all the way from now on.Dynex here in Canada if they are mkm.I don't know how you tell before you buy them.Philips i understand are also mkm's,but i haven't seen any.More expensive,but cheaper in the long run.

I'm using a NEC 3540A burner with the 1W.5 firmware.

[-jsl-]

Philips nowadays are made by CMC Magnetics with either PHILIPS.CD2 code or CMC MAG.D01 code (at least in Europe).
No idea how they work but they're hardly as good as MKM. Might be better than Ritek though.

[b_ramsdell]

I have a problem where I can use DVDShrink and pull off a dvd and burn it to a dual layer disc but my standalone dvd recorders will not play the disc. It plays fine in my dvd rom drives. Any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong? The standalones are both Philips dvd recorders and play any disc I throw at them except Ram of course. Thanks.

[grill1968]

Just to note:

You can easely take the total control over layer break with free tools . Thanks to the authors of PgcEdit, ImgTool, DVDDecrypter as well as to blutach for the guide:

https://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/dl_burning_with_pgcedit.htm

[Edmund Blackadder]

I have a problem where I can use DVDShrink and pull off a dvd and burn it to a dual layer disc but my standalone dvd recorders will not play the disc. It plays fine in my dvd rom drives. Any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong? The standalones are both Philips dvd recorders and play any disc I throw at them except Ram of course. Thanks.

It's a fact that quite a few standalone DVD recorders don't like DVD+R DL discs no matter how you record them or what booktype you use. So it's a media recognition issue. What burner, software and booktype did you use to burn them?

You can easely take the total control over layer break with free tools . Thanks to the authors of PgcEdit, ImgTool, DVDDecrypter as well as to blutach for the guide:
https://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/ ... gcedit.htm

I would probably consider trying that method if I already didn't have RecordNow 7.3. Since RN works well for me I don't have any plans to switch. For backing up prerecorded content it's easy to retain the original layer break. But for my original DVD's I'm using my DVDMaestro/PgcEdit/RecordNow method to control the layer break. It's described on Page 5 of this thread.

[b_ramsdell]

I have a problem where I can use DVDShrink and pull off a dvd and burn it to a dual layer disc but my standalone dvd recorders will not play the disc. It plays fine in my dvd rom drives. Any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong? The standalones are both Philips dvd recorders and play any disc I throw at them except Ram of course. Thanks.

It's a fact that quite a few standalone DVD recorders don't like DVD+R DL discs no matter how you record them or what booktype you use. So it's a media recognition issue. What burner, software and booktype did you use to burn them?

I have a pioneer dvr 109 burner. I used DVD Shrink w/Nero to burn it. It automatically sets to DVDRom Booktype on Dual Layer discs.

[MaxBlack]

Hmmm, sorry but... it must be a Philips problem. The DVD+R DL ought to play in everything. They even play in my old Sony DVP-S7000, which was produced before DVD-recordables existed.

[b_ramsdell]

Hmmm, sorry but... it must be a Philips problem. The DVD+R DL ought to play in everything. They even play in my old Sony DVP-S7000, which was produced before DVD-recordables existed.

Is there something I am doing wrong in the process of the dvd? I simply tell DVDShrink to do it all.

[Edmund Blackadder]

Is there something I am doing wrong in the process of the dvd? I simply tell DVDShrink to do it all.

It might be because of the Nero burning engine. As a last resort I would compile everything with DVD Shrink into a VIDEO_TS folder and then burn it on Pioneer 109 with the latest RecordNow in Data Mode. If that doesn't work with your Philips, then it will probably never be able to play DVD+R DL unless they update the firmware.

My Sony DRX-500ULX good old trusty DVD burner also could not recognize any sort of DVD+R DL (even with DVD-ROM booktype) until I upgraded to the latest 2.1a firmware. I think this is an issue only specific to some recordable drives, where they get confused without the firmware update. However, that is mostly not an issue with read-only drives and standalone players. Some Pioneer standalone DVD recorders are also known for not being able to recognize DVD+R DL. However any Pioneer DVD player can play a quality-made DVD+R DL without a hitch.