usb instant dvd hardware encoder

[Cootie]

>If you are happy with the video quality you get with "live" MPEG capture at a 3mbps then good luck to you - but you are kidding yourself if you think you get anything near VHS quality that way - try viewing the result on a 36" TV and say that.<

Is a 35" TV good enough for you? That's what I use. Unfortunately I have to inform you that I can see no discernible difference between the original tape and a VCD produced from that tape using Instant DVD. It suits my need. It does what it was intended to do.

[Anonymous65]

Happily, I can inform you that real-time hardware mpeg capture cards NOW outperform the lossless AVI capture and software compression preocess. Welcome to the future...

[Moi_Lejter]

Could you give us a pointer to the reg hack to enable
2520 Mbps encoding rate? I am using 4Mbs half-d now -
I am aiming for a final product at 352x240, so full-d
seemed like overkill... But, I would like to fit that end
result into a single CD-R. At 4Mbs, I need 2 CDs to store
an hour of video - although with good quality. At 2Mbs, the quality is not really good (too blocky). Using TMPGEnc to re-encode as VBR shrinks the size a lot, but it also loses quality about as much as 2Mbs...

I would also appreciate a pointer to Womble - at the moment
I use ULead's VideoStudio to cut out commercials and recode down to 352x240...

On 2001-11-13 23:09:32, vhelp wrote:
statuspending, (WinTV PVR usb)

I have the WinTV PVR (USB), and as far as caping from DVD player,
you can't beat the quality it gives. I konw that the unit only has
settings for 2/4/6 MBits, but I have hacked the .reg file and set it
for 2520 Mbits. When I cap a DVD movies, the quality is near
dvd, though 352x480[...]
I cut the commercials out with Womble
And, if you use Womble, you don't have to deMux/Mux your audio...
anything else, and you will have to.

[lusid]

I got to play with the ADS unit at comdex. It was suprisingly good. After my horrid experience with a USB dazzle DVC a few years ago I would never have beleived this either.

The source they had to capture from at their booth was clean though, and I'm really curious to see how it does with the marginal source material I have sitting around on VHS, or my noisy cable feed. But I'll be waiting untill I can get it from a store with a decent return policy before I really test one out.

I told them they should add a timer function in their software. They said if they got enough requests that they would, so if you have one ask them about it.

[sracer]

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On 2001-11-22 14:26:26, mpack wrote:
If you are happy with the video quality you get with "live" MPEG capture at a 3mbps then good luck to you - but you are kidding yourself if you think you get anything near VHS quality that way - try viewing the result on a 36" TV and say that.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Been there, done that. Again, take a look at my sample clip take from my Dazzle DVC.... http://pages.prodigy.net/tcperconti/ unretouched, using the supplied VideoCD template, from a DVD attached via S-Video.
This is typical of the captures I've been getting over the past 2 years. Capturing from VHS is obviously of a lower quality, but that is a direct result of the source material and nothing inherent in the DVC on-the-fly encoding/capturing.

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The hard facts are that live MPEG encoding with todays affordable hardware gives you nothing like the quality you would consider acceptable in a VHS tape or a commercial quality VCD, never mind a DVD. The only way to approach that quality is by lossless capture, following by offline encoding - and you don't have that option with a USB device.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds like your information is slightly out of date. The technology has dramatically improved even in the last 2 years since I bought my Dazzle DVC.

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In other words, USB binds you into poor quality results and there is nothing you can do about it - except avoid USB.
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Sorry but you are not correct. USB is not the bottleneck. Whitebook VideoCD standard has the bitrate in the 1150 kpbs range. That is all the bandwidth that is required to transmit "over the wire" when capturing VCD-compliant MPEG1. This is far below the 3MB that has been talked about.

The capture hardware receives the analog a/v signal, captures and on-the-fly encodes the signal. The resulting datastream being sent over USB to the PC is that VCD-compliant signal (1150kbps) plus control and communication data overhead.

The quality of the MPEG is a function of the quality of the hardware doing the encoding...not due to any limitations in USB throughput.

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In any case most of the arguments put in the last couple of messages have been in favour of live MPEG encoding, not arguments for using USB. If you insist on live MPEG encoding then you can do it just as easily with a PCI or AGP card, or with a firewire capture device - all of these at least give you the option if you change your mind in future on the matter of live vs offline encoding.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

This option is not the same however. Unless these cards have onboard MPEG encoders, you're using software to do live encoding. You need relatively high-end equipment to do that, and any drag on the system will result in a/v sync problems, dropped frames... etc.

[arp]

I am very confused!
I have a Laptop 450Mhz HD 6GB (DMA) 192Mb Ram and a Pinnacle PCTV USB.
I trying to make AVI's from VSH and 8mm tapes and simply I can't a decent AVI!
Max resolution is 352x288 PAL. At window with this resolution quality is aceptable, but when set mplayer to full-screen the quality is very poor!
This "usb instant dvd" is better?
Whats wrong in my equipment?
Thanks

[vhelp]

Evening all !

arp,

Nothing's wrong with your unit. It's just the limitations of:
1 - the resolution (352x240/28
2 - the settings/registries/settings used for your particular
--- device!
--- 2 - also, you may not get acceptable quality (VCD) via your
--- mplayer (may be DirectX version, etc.) But maybe you could
--- try another VCD software player, ie, PowerDVD comes to mind.
--- You may get better quality viewing on your pc monitor with it.

Some people have great success (luck) with their purchase of a
capture device depending on THEIR given system specs. Many factors!

There are so many numbers of factors involved in a good end-result
(quality) of a capture card/softare/real-time/mpeg, etc, that it
makes my head spin sometimes I've learned that it's hard to
pinpoint the exact reason for quality loss, per Computer/mb/chipset/
driver/directx/softare player/dvd player/standalone player/vhs/
cables/quality of source/. . . . . list goes on. . . . . . . .

In order to get the best quality from your capture equipment, you
have to (for most people) spend many countless hours/days/weeks/
(some people aren't ment for this type of process and eliminate)
months, w/ testing and more testing with many settings, till you
come up with the right settings that work for YOUR system/setup.
Most people will try two or three times, and give up. I myself,
will try MANY times, not giving up, till, (hopefully) I found what
works for me. And then, there are times, when you NEVER find the
right settings that works for you, and not because of your capture
device, but most likely due to your SYStem and it's abilities.
But, sometimes due to your capture device, he,he...

IMO, your laptop MAY be the reason for you lack of acceptable quality.
Also, AVI capturing via your (any) USB ports, gotta have limitations,
and I think you've hit it with yours.

Today, I brought in a VCD I made on cd and I played it on my 20" monitor
at work. IMO, the quality was very good, with no blocks, BUT, there
were noticable, though slite double-lines in some areas. When I showed
it to one of my co-workers (she) said "that looks great!". She doesn't
know what is good and what is bad. She saw a video play rather smoothely
and liked what she saw. I saw a slight blurry picture w/ some artifacts.
It depends on each persons eyes! Everyone see's something different.
I was viewing this sample clip on my 13" TV. If I stand a bit burther
away, it wasn't so bad. Just don't sit too close to TV, or you'll be
too pickey with quality - (for those who want VCD materials)

arp, Ok, with VCD creation (BOME) you CAN get rid of the blocks, as in
my video I showed co-worker, BUT, you'll end up getting a slight blurry
or fuzzy picture on your pc monitor. But, if you play this same clip on
your TV (as I have) it looks really good (for VCD) but still slight
blurry or fuzzyness to it. So, some will call this VCD great quality,
while others will call it crap (like myself)
Also, EVERY captured (MOVIE/TV SHOW)'s quality (source) is also a factor!
ie, On my directv, they had a concert of the GoGo Girls live. No matter
what I did, I just could NOT get rid of the BLOCKS-BLOCKS-BLOCKS! They
were everywhere! In reference to your source, it truely depends on
what/where/lights, etc. in the video that makes or breaks a VCD!
I could show you the sample I made, but you wouldn't be interested in
the D/L. So, believe me when I say this. It's true! He, he....

As for VHS capping, well, you know the quality is at it's worse!
But, there are other methods for/to getting around some of the quality
issues with this. But, don't expect mericles, though you CAN get some
decent acceptable quality for this medium too.
Just go in with your eyes WIDE open, when taking on this area.

I use my WinTV PVR (usb) device for my DVD backups because I was soo
dam tired of the fussing around with DVD2AVI (not that it's bad) and
I needed a rest from those LONG 8, 10, 16, 23 hour encodes. When I
first got this PVR, it's standard settings were 2/4/6 Mbits were all
you had for quality settings. (Forget VCD one - it bit, big time)
So, I did what I normally do. I searched the net for PVR USB .reg hacks.
But, I could not find ANY. I found a few web sites that had PVR, though
none really covered anything for the USB models. I did try to use those
tips/tricks that were ment for the PCI versions, but all they did was
cause me more trouble. So, since I couldn't find anything, bit it hacks
or .reg updates, etc., I took it upon myself to mess with the .reg file
of the PVR. It didn't take me too long to figure some things out.
But, in short, I found out how to modify the Mbits setting, and change it
to 2520 or higher/lower. I was EXCITED when I discovered this!!
So, I decided to post this at a few sites (this site was one of them)
So far, I haven't heard ANY complaints from those that asked for it
and tried it. So, I'll assume they met with success (I hope)

If this .reg tip get arounds enough, they'll be on every site, ...and
probably is now. Course, my name wont be mentioned. You can bet that
someone else will have taken the credit for it I have gone and done
a quick search to some of them. I noticed that others took the credit
for it. Of those sites I've ben to that NEVER had this .reg file, it's
like they ALWAYS had it. It figures, though. Not worth questioning
any of them on it, as they are quick to give me excuse that it was
always there or available, just wasn't posted at the time, or some
excuse like that! But, I know I WAS the first to find this, and posted
it at my web site, and a link here to it.

On this .reg issue, I've felt that if you are willing to spend the time
to fiddle with it (in reference to your device) (and make backup copies)
you can find many answeres or inhancements to your given situation.
I've used this on my ATI capture cards, my DVC I, my Haup wintv pci and
now, my PVR usb. It takes time, and practice, and a lot of "what if's"
and "maybe this", etc. Ok, ie, here's one experence just recently.
Since I decided to play around with my ATI-TV Wonder card, and do some
capture testing with it, I did a search for my old modified .reg file
for it. Coudn't find it. Nowheres! So, I went back to my regedit.exe
and started the process of tinkering. Course, I remembered from prev.
experience where to go. And, it didn't take long, before I found where
I needed to go to change the some of the settings for, example:
* ME * Audio * resolutions for MPEG caps * and resolutions for the AVI
captures. I was up and running in know time again. I have yet ben able
to modify the .reg file for the DC10+ card. I've ben unsuccessful this
this. What am I trying to do, well, I want to get it to cap at the
resolution of 352x480. But, no luck! I havn't given up on this yet!
The above is just an example of what it will take for a given person that
just WONT give up on reaching for best quality from a given device!
There are some of us that practice this on a regular bases (me)

As far as skittelsen's comment on the real-time mpeg capture OUTperforming
on the lossless AVI captures output quality - NO! I don't believe it!!
For one, there's only so much punch you can give this real-time process.
And, you're limited to the FIRMs softare encoder's abilities/limitations.
But, get a hold of TMPGenc or CCE (mostly, TMPGEnc) and you can go a looong
way to reaching that OPTIMum quality, be it VCD or SVCD!! There are
countless settings and variations to chose!
But, SKITTELSEN may have a different tollorence levels than some of us, and
consiquently, we're in dissagreement! no insults intended But, in
whole honesty, I can't really say this with complete confidence 100%
because I don't have the capture card he is fortunate enough to have
in making this bold statement.

As for USB throughput, I believe it has enough to do BOTH the MPEG1 and
MPEG2 capture and sending this data down the USB line. Remember, the
MPEG is in the hardware chip, and is doing all the work there, finally
sending the small information (data) down the wires. Its not sending
AVI data (which requires a lot more horse power to be stable enough to
send the data to the Hard Drive.


I may be off on a few thing, give or take a little, but the above and much
more is based on MY experience. If anyone dissagrees with me, thats ok!
All in good intensions !!

Well, I'm stopping here, cause of have other posts to look at and other
projects to tend to.

Happy burning to you all!!

PS: Man, I can't believe the quality I am now getting with my PVR capture
of Star Trek Enterprise, he, he.... I can't see any blocks with my .reg
mod of 2520Mbits. . .

BOME-based on my experience

[sracer]

vhelp, it is always a pleasure to read your posts. You are "spot on" on the things you say.

[vhelp]

sracer, ...why, tanx!!

I know I talk a lot, but for me, I think that it's the ONLY way that I
can express myself - in GREAT detail.
I just tell it like it is, in PLAIN ENGLISH!!, yAH HooYEEE!!!!

I appreciate this BOARD / FORUM.

On another note, that Star Trek Enterprise I was capping actually did
not come out as I though it would. No, still no blocks though. Just that
it looked kind of strange this time around. I know they jimmy the
quality of the source, but I can't quite put my finger on it. But, when
there's a commercial with-in this cap (many commercials) they all
came out looking pretty good. Just these Star Trek shows that don't.
So, IMO, if you really want good caps of Star Trek shows, cap in AVI!!!
...then, encode. Best quality is what you will get for SVCD!! But, I do
appreciate that I didn't get blocks in this cap project! I'm wondering
if anyone else has had any good results from this .reg update!
Well, that's not for this thred - better for another (new) one on this topic.
Maybe I'll post it.

[ejai]

I own the USB instant dvd and feel it's the best capture device I have used yet. The quality is sharp especially when it comes to SVCD. The VCD quality is very sharp as well but has a little too much artifacting around sharp edges. I've used the Terapin and even Broadway card. Both of these devices have their own set of problems. Also technical support for Broadway is terrible, they never like to respond.

I am very happy with The USB instant DVD, but I wish they had used another software package besides Ulead's VideoStudio. VideoStudio crashes alot even using XP and it has very bad audio/video sync issues.

Remember this is only my opinion. I must say one last thing I love the Uleads DVD Media Factory for making SVCDs and VCDs, I make perfect Discs with menus and no major problems.

[Joel0607]

Ok people... if not the ADS USB Instant DVD, what do you recommend?

The main point is: I need multiple sources (TV, VCR, DVD, camera, etc) all going in. I need to export back to tape. I want the highest possible broadcast-quality resolution, and no dropped frames, etc.

Aside from getting DV/Firewire, is there anything that comes close? And is there a good analog to DV device out there? Is there a similar device that uses Firewire instead of USB, cause I'll buy that in a second!

[Anonymous65]

Dazzle DVCII is the best choice if you want broadcast quality. It has video output, but does not have a tuner. So, use a VCR to record from off-air TV.

[Anonymous65]

Also, I stand by my "bold" statement of hardware (PV231) compression can outperform AVI/software compressed VCD's.
The judgent is based on video noise, edge artifacs, still artifacts, fast motion artifacs, sharpness, color detail and noise level. The strong points for PV231 is sharpness and color detail, low video and color noise, low edge and still noise. Tmpeg performs a bit better on fast action block noise. Otherwise, I'm trying to justify keeping my WinTV, Mjpeg encoder, and Tmpeg encoder. But with the simplicity, speed and high quality of the PV231, I simply don't see any need to keep them...

[Joel0607]

What's the difference between the Dazzle DVCII and the Dazzle Hollywood DV Bridge? I mean would you use one for specific functions, and not the other? The both seem to be about the same price.

[ejai]

If you want to waste your money then listen to these guys and spend on Dazzle which I also own and found the ADS product much better (At a lower price).

All this technical talk is nonsense, when the only thing that matters is what you see and ease of use.

Happy hunting,
ej

[TheInformer]

First of all, a thought....

When a TV show (for example) is recorded to VHS tape, doesn't that automatically reduce the quality of the video?

Isn't VHS a lower quality than an analog video source such as TV? If so, it makes more sense to capture straight off of the TV instead of recording the show, -if- that is possible.

Once again I'll mention the Sony DVMC-DA2 media converter for those folks who want to convert their analog to digital and vice versa. The box can switch between analog and digital:

analog --> digital (DV format)
digital (DV format) --> analog

Analog comes in/out on composite and/or Svideo, and digital comes in/out on firewire. The only two possible negatives are that you need 3.6 megs for each second of video, and the time to encode DV to your target format.

When my tax refund check comes in, I'm buying one

[statuspending]

ok...

so...back to the original question.

this box performs hardware encoding on the video input. what happens to the audio? does it get recorded in some format on the hard drive through the sound card? does it need to be encoded later? does it then need to be multiplexed? does the mpeg written to your harddrive during capture include the audio?

do you just capture and burn?


thanks for all your helpful replies

[Joel0607]

Hey TheInformer... check out these links and tell me what you think:

Info at http://www.dazzle.com/products/hw_bridge.html
Review at http://www.insanely-great.com/reviews/dazzle.html

You were thinking about getting the Sony DVMC-DA2 media converter. But that is about 2 years old now. This is fairly new (as of June I think) and is supposed to be a little better. Check out the review and let me know what you think.

The Hollywood DV Bridge also converts analog>DV and uses Firewire instead of USB's limited bandwidth. I think it's good but havent heard what others think yet.

[Joel0607]

Just as a quick follow-up, sorry I didnt see the difference there. You mentioned the Sony DVMC-DA2. The link I had mentioned the DA1. Big difference.

I looked up the DA2 and it looks good. The price is still lower on the Hollywood DV Bridge though if you dont need the added features/timecode. If you just want analog>DV then either one is good.

[arp]

Vhelp,

Thanks for your post.
With your WinTV usb can capture resolution heigher 352x288?
Capture card "USB instant DVD" can capture resolution 720x480? And the limitation of USB port?

Thanks

[spidey]

I use the Dazzle DVC 1 USB and I've been able to cap at 3000 x 224 even on my old P2 266 (now it's on a P3 866), but it has never had any problem. If you cap directly to their vcd template you may have some loss, but if you cap high then re-encode it works perfect. This may seem a bit redundant in steps, however it still saves you a ton of disk space compared to an anlog cap say using Huffyuv, as well as the quality has been far far better.
Plus, as previously mentioned for any source, you had RCA stereo audio (which does go into the sound card as previously mentioned) as well as both composite and SVideo inputs for vid.

[spidey]

Regarding capping of a DVD I had done some prior to getting a dvd rom and they loked great. Especially over the Svideo. This also was a way to get around trying to rip a certain subtitle, set it up to play that and cap it.

Also, on the DVC 1 though the capping resolution (since it's an mpeg 1 encoder) is at 352 x 240 (in ntsc)

[EricB]

As a DV video user I'll add my 2 cents. I've tried the Hollywood DV bridge and currently use a Sony camcorder to convert analog video to DV files. Both work well although the Dazzle product seemed to have some hardware bugs.

While drive space is less of an issue these days, the DV video is enormous (20+ gigs for a movie). Thus if you are working on several projects at once (typical), the disk space really does get eaten up fast.

On my fairly fast machine, it takes 4-5 hours to encode 40 minutes of DV video to SVCD using TMPGenc. The results look great, but I still feel like this is too long for the amount of old material I want to convert, plus the new stuff I'm working on. My computer is constantly tied up doing encoding. I want to be editing and creating.

So, I will continue to use this setup for priceless old family video (they need all the quality preservation they can get!) and also for new projects that need the best. I would still like to find a nice, real-time mpeg2 encoder that isn't too expensive (<$250), is reliable (sorry Dazzle fans, I own the products and they seem pretty flakey), and has good, if not great output.

[TheInformer]

Joel,

I'm looking at the DVMC-DA2 due to the fact that it captures in DV format, which is a -lot- easier to edit than MPEG-1/2 files and can go straight into my JVC MiniDV camcorder if need be without any conversion.

I'm seriously thinking of using DV as my main format and avoiding AVI files all together (which is the format I use currently).

The Hollywood Bridge has a problem with heating and also with falling over, according to what I have read.

The Instant DVD setup looks to be a good idea if you want to easily record to a VCD/DVD target format with little to no editing. I'm considering it too when the tax refund comes in.

BTW, someone told me the DVMC-DA2 was also a timebase correcter??? I don't know about that, but it would be just one more great feature

[tekochip]

I had the Dazzle USB, and picked up the Instant DVD last week. First impression; the Instant DVD does a fantastic job at SVCD. It's painless to make a SVCD without any encoding. The VCD quality is, well, it's VCD, and it varies greatly with the source. The packaged editor software sucks, but the hardware product is great. How else can I get my laptop to capture MPEG2 in realtime?

The Dazzle box has much better software, but a capture on anything other than the VCD template is littered with packet errors. You'll see some sort of a problem when you play it back, and how serious it is depends upon how tolerant your player is.

I've captured half a dozen movies so far on the Instant DVD, and the results of SVCD has been great.

[PatMar]

check the following link:

http://www.pinnaclesys.de/de/frameset_id.asp?product_id=651

[Joel0607]

TheInformer,

The Sony DVMC-DA2 specs can be seen here: http://dv411.com/sondvmcda2dv.html
(Not the best place to buy considering their price, but probably your best place for info.)

What you mentioned refers to this spec from the website:
"Lan-C connector is included for converting timecode information and device control commands between FireWire and LANC/Control-L devices."

I have a vague idea about what this is, and I'm assuming this comes in handy if you were to use a professiional tape deck (as opposed to VHS) as your source. (Or at least one that recognizes time code - which is an actual track on the tape besides video/audio that acts as a reference guide. It's not just your average VCR counter. VHS rarely ever has time code.)

What comes to my mind is the fact that an AVID has the ability to recognize time code and shuttle around a tape looking for specific clips to digitize. You can literally tell the AVID to capture specific clips from different locations on a tape and walk away. The AVID will sit there looking for those clips, and digitize only those clips without you having to take the WHOLE thing. (Useful in productions where you need to edit just a few clips out of a lengthy tape filled with useless footage.)

I guess this has the ability to do this? Although I assume it depends on the quality of the souce video deck.

Then again, I could be talking out of my a**.

[EricB]

Joel,

The timecode does exactly that and is another reason to buy a digital camcorder instead of the Sony converter. You can take your source material, record it into the camcorder, and the resulting tape has timecode. You can then batch capture only the clips you want by referring to the timecode positions. The converters (Sony, Dazzle) cannot produce timecode from sources like TV, VHS tapes, etc.

Editing software like Pinnacle Studio7 supports "capturing" a much compressed version of your DV source. You edit using this small file and add all your cuts, transitions, titles, etc. Then, to finally render the video, the software uses timecode to select just the portions that you require from the DV source.

[Joel0607]

ErciB, that is what the AVID does as well. But in order to batch capture clips like this, you NEED timecode. Or else, the AVID or your Sony DVMC-DA2 is searching for the wrong clips cuz it is confusing tape counters for time code.

I'm someone who is interested in grabbing clips not just from a camcorder or VHS, but from Beta, DVC-Pro and various other professional tape formats. (The thought that I can put together a pro editing system for like 1/30th the cost is amazing!)

[dood]

I'll comment on the ADS "USB Instant DVD". I've owned Dazzle, Pinnacle, and ATI capture devices and they all have their problems. The USB Instant DVD is an amazing product. It just works and works well. A 5mbps Mpeg2 capture is perfect and painless. It is almost too simple...good video capture is not supposed to be this easy, is it? Shouldn't I be experiencing audio synch problems and dropped frames and non-compliant video streams?? It just works.

Well done, ADS. Best $160 I've ever spent.