Advice needed: Celeron2.8 or P4 2.0 + ATI AIW

[DereX888]

Friend of mine want me to upgrade his computer's CPU.
He has P4 1.2 or 1.3GHz (the very first one socket 423 with 256kb cache) on Asus P4T with 256MB RDRAM (Rambus) and ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 32MB.

With his budget he can afford either Celeron 2.8 GHz or P4 2.0 GHz (they are about same price here).

I was suggesting chosing P4 since it has 512kb cache vs. Celeron's 128kb, and since he already have this Rambus memory (best for P4) he should have stick to P4.
But he thinks what Celeron 'loose' with lesser cache, it will make up in faster speed.

Anyone has some experience in going from P4 slower speed to faster Celeron?
How it affected i.e. ability to use filters in MMC? From what I know currently he can select at most "Combo filter 1" on his P4 1.2GHz, while I can select "Combo filter 2" or any combination of filters on my P4 2.4GHz, but Im not sure how would it work on Celeron 2.8GHz or P4 2.0GHz?

TIA

[Sulik]

Celerons are usually quite bad for video tasks, because of the severe lack of cache, but I never actually seen a P4 2.8 Celeron benchmarked.

[DereX888]

yeah, neither did I, thats why Im asking here Had it been choice between Cel 2.0 and P4 2.0 I wouldnt even hesitate...

[disturbed1]

You'll need a new motherboard too, the Celerons are socket 478. They made upto a 2gig P4 for the socket 423 platform.

A Celeron 1700 is about the same speed as a P4 1300-1400, it's slower than a P4 1500, so the 2800 should be close to a 2.0/2.2 P4.

[DereX888]

disturbed1, look at my computer's details
I have socket 478 P4 2.4GHz on a socket 423 mobo for quite long time...
It could go to over 3GHz with latest bios version, but unfortunately there is nor will be HT support, thats why Im not upgrading this box anymore. But other than that I love Asus P4T mobos, they were really well build.

[MOVIEGEEK]

2.8Ghz(400Mhz FSB) vs. P4 2.0Ghz(400Mhz FSB)
Encoding:the Celeron 2.8Ghz will be faster.
Gaming:about the same due to the 400Mhz FSB.

www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD03MjAmdXJsX3BhZ2U9Ng==

*the test shows a P4 2.4C with 800Mhz FSB.

[lordsmurf]

Celeron and 720x480 MPEG2 capture on the ATI AIW card? Forget about it. Maybe at 2.8 ... maybe not.

Then again .. which P4 2.0 .. the first one that sucked? Or the newer 2A one that replaced it?

[DereX888]

Pentium 4 2.0A - Socket 478 - 400MHz FSB - 512KB cache
vs
Celeron 2.8 - Socket 478 - 400MHz FSB - 128KB cache

as described here
http://www.canadacomputers.com/cpus.html#int

unless someone has for sale any 2.4GHz or faster 400MHz FSB P4? This would solve the problem

[jawgee]

Celeron and 720x480 MPEG2 capture on the ATI AIW card? Forget about it. Maybe at 2.8 ... maybe not.

Then again .. which P4 2.0 .. the first one that sucked? Or the newer 2A one that replaced it?

I don't drop any frames at 720x480 with my Celeron 2.2GHz - 512MB RAM & my ATI AIW 7500.

jawgee

[DereX888]

jawgee:

I don't drop any frames at 720x480 with my Celeron 2.2GHz - 512MB RAM & my ATI AIW 7500.

How about settings?
- do you use ATI's MMC and capture in MPEG-2, or is it in AVI?
- How far can you go with "Combo Filter set 2" in MMC?

Its important because my friend's analog cable quality really sux badly, and without filtering his captures look more like VCD than DVD...

THX![/quote]

[peregrin]

I'm using a Celeron 2.0Ghz with 512Mb DDR333 ram and an ATI AIW 7500 and am having no problems capturing video at 720x480 to MPEG 2 for conversion to DVD's , target bit of 6 Mbps (with max bitrate set to 8Mbps) and have no problems at all. I was using Windows XP Pro (tweaked for video capture) and was getting about 5-20 frames dropped per 2 hour record session, now I'm using Windows 2000 ( not tweaked and connected to a network) and am getting 1 frame dropped in a 2 hour movie.

If the Celeron was the cheaper price go with it ,if not go with your preference .

[disturbed1]

disturbed1, look at my computer's details
I have socket 478 P4 2.4GHz on a socket 423 mobo for quite long time...
It could go to over 3GHz with latest bios version, but unfortunately there is nor will be HT support, thats why Im not upgrading this box anymore. But other than that I love Asus P4T mobos, they were really well build.

I missed that. You can put a 478 in a 423 board?

Where's the adapter at?

I've got 2 P4T's sitting in boxes, and an TH7-RAID that needs a new cpu badly.

[DereX888]

disturbed1:

get only this one:
http://www.upgradeware.com/english/product/p478/p478.htm

I have seen 2 other 'brands' of p4 adapters, one was also good but had shitty design - it required their own special-design heatsink and fan, so i rejected it right away; other one was so simple without voltage settings, and IMO it is better to have it under control on the adapter than let the bios control voltage for processor it doesnt actually recognise properly (just my opinion).

peregrin:
THX ALOT for info. I would go for P4 2.4 or 2.6, but there is no choices here (only 2.0 is available for 400FSB), and there is my friend's bufget limit of $200 CAD, so Celeron 2.8 it is.

It will be me who will do the job obviously, perhaps I'll have enough time to make some tests and post something about Cel 2.8 and AIW Radeon.

[jawgee]

jawgee:

I don't drop any frames at 720x480 with my Celeron 2.2GHz - 512MB RAM & my ATI AIW 7500.

How about settings?
- do you use ATI's MMC and capture in MPEG-2, or is it in AVI?
- How far can you go with "Combo Filter set 2" in MMC?

Its important because my friend's analog cable quality really sux badly, and without filtering his captures look more like VCD than DVD...

THX!

Settings:
- WinXP Pro SP1a
- Omega Catalyst Drivers based on Catalyst 4.4
- MMC 8.8
- ATIs MPEG-2 codec
- 720x480 res
- light VideoSoap
- VBR w/max set to 6MBps

I may get a dropped frame or two at the start of a capture, but that's it. Also, if you're really concerned about dropped frames, drop the res to 352x480 & cut the bitrate in half. Not a significant difference (to me) in picture quality, but much better performance allowing for more VideoSoap filtering.

Thanks,
jawgee

[DereX888]

jawgee - thx!

[lordsmurf]

Celeron and 720x480 MPEG2 capture on the ATI AIW card? Forget about it. Maybe at 2.8 ... maybe not.

Then again .. which P4 2.0 .. the first one that sucked? Or the newer 2A one that replaced it?

I don't drop any frames at 720x480 with my Celeron 2.2GHz - 512MB RAM & my ATI AIW 7500.

jawgee

Good to know.

My 1.7 Celeron dropped badly on Win2K .... most of that went away on WinXP Pro, but onyl for 352x480 ... not 720x480 .. and VideoSoap? Maybe light or 15% despeckle but nothing else.

[DereX888]

My 1.7 Celeron dropped badly on Win2K .... most of that went away on WinXP Pro, but onyl for 352x480 ... not 720x480 .. and VideoSoap? Maybe light or 15% despeckle but nothing else.

I tried Cel 1.3 or 1.4 (s370) once, on a machine with Win2k and lots of ram, and it was a disaster. 352x480 CBR was as far as it could go IIRC.
But them celerons socket478 have SSE-2 right?, and IIRC there is same or simlar core as first P4 had (Willamette) so in theory they should be close to those first P4 s423 (except celeron have half of their l2 cache).

I'll let ya know how it works once I get his machine and cpu.

[MOVIEGEEK]

"But them celerons socket478 have SSE-2 right?"

Yes(2.0Ghz+).

Good Luck

[disturbed1]

disturbed1:

get only this one:
http://www.upgradeware.com/english/product/p478/p478.htm

I have seen 2 other 'brands' of p4 adapters, one was also good but had shitty design - it required their own special-design heatsink and fan, so i rejected it right away; other one was so simple without voltage settings, and IMO it is better to have it under control on the adapter than let the bios control voltage for processor it doesnt actually recognise properly (just my opinion).

Thanks for the info, found that one for less than $30. My TH7 supports upto 3066 and plenty of voltage/FSB adjustments, so I may just have to upgrade to a Celeron 2400 ($65) and over clock it a bit .

[koolaidwa]

my duron 1.1 ghz amd can capture 720x480 fine

my current system AMD can do anything i throw at it



moviegeek u must really love intel, even tho they arnt # 1 anymore, gotta get my hands on a A64 3700+ socket 939 soon,


only celerons based on the p4 use sse-2

[junkmalle]

SSE-2 is only in the newest high end cpu that run 500+$

No, SSE-3 is only in the new P4 Prescott CPUs. SSE-2 is in the all the P4 and P4 based Celeron CPUs.

[koolaidwa]

yeah i relize that now, the presscot line is going downhill fast and intel knows this, too bad for intel, great for amd




yes i know a lot of u here are PRO INTEL, i dont wanna start a cpu war here, lol

[MOVIEGEEK]

yeah i relize that now, the presscot line is going downhill fast and intel knows this, too bad for intel, great for AMD

Says who?
I see you made a mistake about SSE-2...go read some reviews before making rediculous claims,the Prescott line is cheaper than the new AMD 64 and offers better video performance.

[DereX888]

koolaidwa, youre posting about amd duron in the CELERON + AIW RADEON thread.
Not only you don't add anything meaningful to this discussion, but you also make a foo of yourself. What makes you think none of us didnt had AMD Duron before? Your rudeness deserve rude reply:
If you wanna know I am neither pro-Intel or pro-AMD. I have built so far much more AMD-based machines than Intel-based ones. They are good for some purposes, yet it doesnt mean they any better than Intel CPUs. However for the purpose of capture, using specific capture card (AIW Radeon 7200) at specific settings (with heavy filtering at 720x480 in MPEG-2 VBR) - as is this thread's subject - your Duron couldn't make squat because it has no SSE-2, something what AIW7200 relies on heavily. All you can do is capture not-so-compressed AVIs at 720x480 with your processor and AIW7200 at best, because you cant even capture at this resolution using any high-compressed codecs like divx or xvid...
I tested myself one of the Duron machines probably much before you even have dreamed of buying one, so please: save your idiotic comments to yourself.

Youre not only off the subject. Your signature is another excess which is in breach of this board's rules, something you again don't even know most likely...

[koolaidwa]

for one, ur stupid thinking thats my sig i use on this board, i just posted it on that there post that i made not as a sig, so ur wrong there, and i could care less about this subject, seesh, get a life, i simply said i was wrong and u all make a mountain over a mole hill, lol