LaserDiscs

[AuroEdge]

Hi. I'm curious what exactly LaserDiscs are. Last year in Chemistry my teacher had a huge CD looking disc (about the size of the bigger sized phonograph albums) and he said it's what DVDs used to look like. Well, I'm no idiot so I know LaserDiscs aren't giant DVDs that came out before DVDs existed. What type of formatting do they use? VOB streams? MPEG? Something completely different? Also, is LaserDisc just a loose term for a bunch of different types/formats of 'oldworld' discs?

[SLK001]

A laserdisk is an laser based analog storage media. The laser bounces off the surface of the disk, where it is modulated using a modified frequency modulation scheme by the "pips" on the disk, then detected by a light detector. The light detector, converts the modulated light into a standard, modulated TV signal, just like you would receive over the air. The audio could be either audio or digital.

By the way, a DVD is still an analog based storage medium.

[wulf109]

A good place to start

http://www.home-theater-reviews.co.uk/articles/what-is-a-laserdisk.shtml

[AuroEdge]

Ohh. I always thought a LaserDisc was just one more medium to the list. I thought how a DVD is one format, and a CD is another that LaserDisc might've been altogether it's own thing. So all discs that are foil compressed between plastic are known as LaserDiscs?

EDIT: after looking at that link it looks like I was right and the 1st guy to post was wrong... or something like that

[smearbrick1]

How is DVD still an analog medium?

[Sam Ontario]

How is DVD still an analog medium?

Read the link provided by Wulf109. SLK001 was making fun. Ignore him/her.

[SLK001]

How is DVD still an analog medium?

Read the link provided by Wulf109. SLK001 was making fun. Ignore him/her.

Well actually, he wasn't. A DVD data stream is read off the disc as an analog stream. After detection, the analog data is converted to 1's and 0's.

[AuroEdge]

Isn't anything that doesn't store data electronically not digital? It's easy to see why a DVD isn't analog and RAM is digital, but a HDD doesn't really fit what I first said. The data is organized on the platters electronically, but it's not stored electronically hence being able to hold data without any electricity.

[lordsmurf]

DVD is digital, not analog. The data is converted to analog by the player.

[SLK001]

Ignorance can be fixed - Stupidity is forever.

The data stream is stored on a DVD as an analog representation of digital data (it does NOT store 1's and 0's directly on the disc). The detector converts the analog waveform to digital. The video D2A converters covert the digital data to an analog video stream, which is then presented to your video monitor.

There. Consider your ignorance fixed. Either that, or accept the alternate title.

This is pretty basic stuff, folks.

[rich_jtg]

Ah Laserdiscs... those were the days!

At least you felt like you had got something for your money... esp. the gatefold ones.

Unfortunately, the lazer on my player gave up, and I decided to get the films again on DVD instead.

[HyperYagami]

The data stream is stored on a DVD as an analog representation of digital data (it does NOT store 1's and 0's directly on the disc). The detector converts the analog waveform to digital. The video D2A converters covert the digital data to an analog video stream, which is then presented to your video monitor.

The *data* is digital, there's no way you can argue that.

The *storage medium* is analog.

And no it DOES store data in 1's and 0's, in analog form (according to your definition) anyway. In fact according to your definition *nothing* is pure-digital, not even RAM (that's electrons representing the voltage that represents the 1's or 0's).

[indolikaa]

You've got to be kidding me.

dig-i-tal (adj)
* Expressed in numerical form, especially for use by a computer.
* Computer Science. Of or relating to a device that can read, write, or store information that is represented in numerical form.

The 'lands' and 'pits' are physical representations of zeros and ones. How they are processed has nothing to do with whether they are classified as digital or not.

[stiltman]

I always thought anything stored on Floppy/HDD/CD/DVD/Zip disk/USB ram/DV tape/D8 tape were all digital.

[AuroEdge]

So for something to be digital it just has to have a representation of 1's and 0's, no matter the form?

[HyperYagami]

You've got to be kidding me.

dig-i-tal (adj)
* Expressed in numerical form, especially for use by a computer.
* Computer Science. Of or relating to a device that can read, write, or store information that is represented in numerical form.

The 'lands' and 'pits' are physical representations of zeros and ones. How they are processed has nothing to do with whether they are classified as digital or not.

[quantum_red]

The data stream is stored on a DVD as an analog representation of digital data (it does NOT store 1's and 0's directly on the disc).

In RAM, capacitors and transistors represent the 0's and 1's. On a hard drive, particles are polarized to represent the 0's and 1's. These are digital storage, just as a DVD's pits and lands are digital storage. An actual zero or one symbol is never used, except on paper or on the screen.

Following your line of reasoning, a typist who types a series of 0's and 1's on a page is storing in digital format.

Ignorance can be fixed - Stupidity is forever.

Can arrogance+stupidity be fixed?

[DereX888]

if it is stored in "signal"/"no signal" data stream (aka "1" and "0") then it is DIGITAL. If you wrote entire DVD's stream as 10101 (or used any other different two characters, i.e. SNSNSN) on a paper using old typewriter, and then if you've used some superfast OCR scanner reading your paper as fast as data is read of off DVD - what would you have? An analog storage? Obviously not! it would have to be considered as digital as any i.e. polarised particle on a hard drive representing 1s and 0s. Think of it.

[NightWing]

Just be glad they never desided to use a scaled up CD Case for a LD! The paper/bag scheme like a 33 1/3 RPM record. Was painfull enough! Wow would be fun to open.... NOT!

Well they did add a Digital audio track but it cut down on play time on a side.

PS: LD did pop out before CD.

[FulciLives]

I have had a LaserDisc player since 1990.

It was the ONLY way for ME to watch VIDEO until DVD came about.

I pretty much stopped buying pre-record factory made VHS tapes after getting my LaserDisc player except for bootleg horror/cult movies that could only be acquired via the "underground" market.

Speaking in analog terms VHS was about 240-250 lines of resolution whereas LaserDisc was 400-425 and DVD is around 500+

If you have ever seen Hi8 or S-VHS then they are also about the same as LD. In fact you could copy a LD to S-VHS SP and get nearly a perfect copy.

The video on a LaserDisc was analog but the quality was still MUCH better than VHS not only because of the resolution but also for other factors including less "color bleed" etc.

Also I admit that Hi-Fi Stereo on a VHS is pretty decent but LaserDisc used PCM WAV audio. I'm not sure if it was 44.1k like CD or 48k like DVD but it sounded nice! This could be MONO or STEREO or even DOLBY SURROUND SOUND. Towards the end of the LD heyday we even had AC-3 and DTS long before DVD was available. LaserDisc could also have 2 audio tracks. We have the LD format to thank for audio commentaries. This was not a new DVD idea but one borrowed from LD releases.

Also a lot of movies were released WS on LaserDisc and many movies got exclusive LD releases. Even if a VHS was in existance sometimes the LD version would be a much better "print" of the movie. It would look better not only because of the better LD quality but also because a better "film to video" transfer was done ... often exclusivly for the LD release.

Finally after a while some of these masters (even WS) came out on VHS but LaserDisc was still preferred for the quality of course.

In the 1990's a LD was often $24.99 to $29.99 minimum price. IMAGE ENTERTAINMENT was one of the bigger LD companies. All of their stuff was $39.99 to $49.99

FOX was probably the worst. Most of their WS LD collections were $69.99 or more.

I was into horror movies and bought a lot of Japanese LaserDiscs of horror films that never got released in the USA on VHS nor LD. Those were an average of $90 to $110 with maybe $55 being the cheapest. I once paid $280 for the Japanese box LD set of DAWN OF THE DEAD which was 4 LD discs and included 2 different cuts of the movie.

LaserDisc was doing good business before DVD and things were looking really good for the format. However even though it was popular enough that just about any movie on VHS also came out on LD it was still small business compared to VHS sales. There was an "odd" segment of remastere exclusively for LD market though that was the most fun.

The real reason in my opinion why LD never took off was the price of course. My first LD player in 1990 was $600 or $700 and the one I bought in 1996 was similiar in features but still $400 or so. Even near the end good models were still around that same price.

As I said the movies were almost never cheaper than $25 to $30 with many being more like $40 to $50 average.

A lot of us LD heads got VERY nervous about DVD when news of the format was comming out. We were afraid that the MPEG-2 video compression would be worse than what LD could do despite being a totally digital picture. We resisted big time but it turns out that most of the early DVD transfers weren't that bad ... many were on par with DVD if not ever-so-slightly better with very few being worse than the LD.

VHS people converted like MAD since they had all but ignored LD and before you knew it LD went from healthy business to being pretty much dead in about 12 to 16 months after DVD came out.

The only LD purchase I regret is Criterion's SALO. I bought the LD then the DVD came out. Reviews said "very nice quality DVD but really about on par with the LD in quality no reason to buy it". I almost bought it anyways "just to have it on that new format".

But I didn't. The DVD is now out-of-print. Original non-bootleg copies of it go on eBay for around $500 now :P

I could have had it for $39.99

Instead I bought (and still have) the $49.99 LD version.

Which reminds me I have to convert that to DVD-R once of these days

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
My best LD is the Criterion version of BLADE RUNNER which IMHO is the best version of the film ... this version is NOT on DVD! Ths is the so-called INTERNATIONAL cut with the Harrison Ford voice-over and extra snippits of violence plus the "proper" ending which some people said reminds them of THE SHINING.

[HyperYagami]

I think another reason why LD never took off was the physical shape of it. It's just too big and not durable enough. It's obviously a whole lot bigger than a VHS type. Yes it's the same as RPM record but people didn't like that either. Plus bigger = easier to get scratched. And of course the price factor too. I remember my friend had a Macross LD and he bought it and watched it only once, only because he didn't want the disc to get scratched.

[quantum_red]

if it is stored in "signal"/"no signal" data stream (aka "1" and "0") then it is DIGITAL. If you wrote entire DVD's stream as 10101 (or used any other different two characters, i.e. SNSNSN) on a paper using old typewriter, and then if you've used some superfast OCR

True, this is digital also. I don't think it needs OCR to qualify, just the on/off nature of the storage. I wonder how many typewritten pages it would take to back up a DVD this way

[AuroEdge]

I think another reason why LD never took off was the physical shape of it. It's just too big and not durable enough. It's obviously a whole lot bigger than a VHS type. Yes it's the same as RPM record but people didn't like that either. Plus bigger = easier to get scratched. And of course the price factor too. I remember my friend had a Macross LD and he bought it and watched it only once, only because he didn't want the disc to get scratched.

That's feasible. How many times have you seen a scratched up PlayStation disc or rented a DVD that skipped at least 10 times?

[chas0039]

The only LD purchase I regret is Criterion's SALO. I bought the LD then the DVD came out. Reviews said "very nice quality DVD but really about on par with the LD in quality no reason to buy it". I almost bought it anyways "just to have it on that new format".

.

Excuse my ignorance; what film are you referring to?

ADDED: Never mind, I found it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/1559408855//103-4957072-8146242?condition=all

[lordsmurf]

Macross LD

I'm drooling.... I feel lucky to have a DVD conversion of this. Those were supposed to be fairly rare, at least some versions of it.

[Madz]

Ah Laserdisc. Still have a fairly nice collection of those. And from what I can see, the only way to get decent DVD-R copies of the original versions of Star Wars V-VI. I actually have two LD sets of the trilogy. First are (I think) the original early 80's releases on CBS-FOX video w/ only analog soundtracks. Then second are 20th Century Fox reissues (late 80's-early 90's) w/ digital sound.

Secondly, do any LD-heads here still have any of the original MCA DiscoVision releases? All LD players will play them but, do to lack of quality control in those early versions, they all tend to have one or more bad (very speckled or noisy) sides per film. The only four I have are: Jaws, Jaws2, Airport '75 & Airport '77. All have at least one bad side. Ah well.

As for protecting, I often duped LD's to Beta after purchasing and handled the discs as little as possible. Usually Super or BI Superhighband (BIs). I couldn't tell much difference when using the latter and SHG tapes.

Finally, most of the very late releases in the few years just prior to the launch of DVD had Dolby 5.1 capability (but needed the decoder and a digital out on the LD player). Independance Day comes to mind as it's the very last LD I bought new from Tower Records.

P.S. To whomever mentioned Blade Runner. I also have the Criterion LD -- the CAV edition.

[HyperYagami]

Macross LD

I'm drooling.... I feel lucky to have a DVD conversion of this. Those were supposed to be fairly rare, at least some versions of it.

It was the 10th anniverary "perfect" edition of the 1st movie (Do You Remember Love). I still remember he played it once, just to make a VHS tape of it and never took that thing out of the package thereafter...

120 minutes, CAV, color, digital stereo
Bandai Visual
BEAL-448
1992 August 21
Y14,800 (tax included)

[choirislife923]

...VHS people converted like MAD...

hehe! *raises hand* that would be me..

i've seen video on laserdiscs before (my school bought like 200 of them from pioneer cause it was more durable for education...[imagine how long it would take teachers to find a point on a videotape that relates to the textbook subject, not to mention the wear and tear from fast forwarding and rewinding 500 times for all the classes]...then dvd came out and they got f-ed up).


i liked laserdiscs. i was only in 3rd grade when i saw my first laserdisc video in math class (i'm 15 now), and the quality was amazing compared to videotape. now being a videophile...i feel sad that LDs are gone...

btw, anybody remember the barcode scanner pens they had for LD players so that u can chapter search without entering a bunch of numbers with that huge motha f-in remote :P ?

[AuroEdge]

Hey! VHS can be indexed which let's you zoom straight to the index without needing button mashing skills. Oh, by zoom I mean 5 minutes of fast forwarding

[lordsmurf]

Hey! VHS can be indexed which let's you zoom straight to the index without needing button mashing skills. Oh, by zoom I mean 5 minutes of fast forwarding

The DISS (Digital Index Search System) I had on a VCR merely made the screen jerk at each DISS.