Deleting dropped frames??

[Samurai Oran]

I am using an ATI TV Wonder VE card to capture video to VCD format.
Sometimes when I'm doing something else with the computer at the same time it ends up dropping a few frames.
I don't particualarly mind this because it still looks fine (as fine a VCD gets!) and the capture prog keeps the a/v syncronized.

The problem occurs when I try to edit out commercials.
I am using M2-Edit to do the cutting/joining etc.
Everything is fine until I try to compile the chopped pieces back together and it quits as soon as it reaches a "blank" frame. Well since the frames are blank I could just edit around the frames but some of my videos are missing quite a few frames here and there and that would take A WHILE.

Unfortunately "doing nothing" with the computer while I'm recording isn't an option considering the amount of video I am constantly recording. (GIGS! woopee!)

Well, TO THE QUESTION...I am hoping to find a proggie that can hunt through the mpeg and delete out any "blank" frames while keeping the audio synced....unless someone else has any other suggestion, WHICH ARE VERY WELCOME, seeing as how I'm relatively new to this.

Any advice??
THANKS IN ADVANCE!!

[Samurai Oran]

Don't everyone answer at once.

[Samurai Oran]

O.k...

Well, I found a function in Virtualdub that allows you to jump between (and delete if so desired) dropped frames.
This is all fine & dandy except it doesn't find any dropped frames in an mpeg that I know has about 1300 dropped frames within it.

WTF?!?!?!?!?

Do I need to convert it to avi before vdub will recognize the dropped frames? How would the dropped frames affect the conversion to avi??
I have found a way to get M2-edit to generate my edited mpeg even with the dropped frames intact but my audio ends up VERY, VERY out of sync. I repeat, WTF?!?!?!?!?

Has ANYONE experienced these problems before?
Im know I can't expect anyone to help me here, especially if they have not dealt with these issues before, but I'm starting to look silly updating my own post.

I NEED to get these FREAKING commercials out of my videos and burn 'em dangit.

ANY help is appreciated.
Thanks.

[vitualis]

Firstly, VirtualDub is not an MPEG editor so you can give up on that front. It allows you to load an mpeg but it won't output one.

As for your particular problem, I probably don't have a satisfactory solution for you, except to say that extensive editing (cutting and joining, especially joining) of an MPEG file will usually end in frustration. MPEG is simply not a format good for editing.

Have you thought about simply cutting the mpeg into various shorter segments and then simply burning your VCD as a multitrack VCD?

Regards.

[Samurai Oran]

Arrgh!!!....

Thanks for the response & please excuse my frustration.

I have discovered that even if I take the first part of the mpeg and cut it right after the small amount of commercials at the beginning and cut it at the end of that video segment, generate a new mpeg from that....WAY OUT OF SYNC AUDIO!! THOSE DAMN DROPPED FRAMES. That'll teach me to not build a dedicated video capture machine. Heh heh.
Crap...

Do you think I'd have better luck converting it to avi and then editing out the commercials??
I don't really care how much trouble I have to go through. I just want to get rid of the commercials mainly.
I would also like to end up with vcd compliant video in the long run.

Perhaps if I converted it to avi using vdub and then edited out the commercials, THEN converted it to vcd compliant mpeg. Hmmm....

[jwhitlow]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-11 20:24:52, Samurai Oran wrote:
Unfortunately "doing nothing" with the computer while I'm recording isn't an option considering the amount of video I am constantly recording. (GIGS! woopee!)

Any advice??
THANKS IN ADVANCE!!
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, how about the next best thing: A dual CPU machine. One of the disadvantages a lot of people talk about with a dual CPU machine can actually be of great benefit, the fact that most programs are not multi-threaded. Since most programs are single-threaded, no matter how hard they bang the CPU, they will only be banging one of two processors, leaving 1 free for your capture.
It does not have to be expensive. Get a nice Via 694 or Via Pro 266 motherboard (~ $100-$150) and 2 Pentium 933 CPUs (~ $140 each).

[vitualis]

There is more to frame drop than just CPU usage.

Some degree of frame drop may be unavoidable (e.g., timing "jitter" ).
Regards.

_________________
Michael Tam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vitualis on 2001-11-14 20:41:00 ]</font>

[Samurai Oran]

I do plan on using a Tyan dual Athlon board in my next system. Hopefully that will help my situation in the future. Thanks for the pointer!
It's true that the simplest way to solve my problem would be to figure out how to not drop ANY frames at all.

Unfortunately that won't help me at the moment.
Also as equally unfortunate is that I just converted one of my mpeg captures to avi using virtualdub and I ended up with the same horrible a/v sync problem.
Crap and crap again.....

I'm about to just freaking give up, leave the damn commercials in and burn 'em....
That sucks though. I hate commercials...and it sucks to have them on something you have recorded "for archival purposes".

Oh well....c'est la vie.

I'd really think that there would be SOME WAY of dealing with dropped frames and the problems that accompany them...but perhaps not. At least not without some seriously "professional" equipment & software.

[jwhitlow]

Like you, I use my computer a lot of stuff & cannot leave it alone to do video capture. So, I put together a second machine to do my capture (yes, I know this not an option for everyone).
The system I decided on after all of my research was the ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon AGP on an MSI Pro266 motherboard, 1Ghz P3, 256MB RAM. I am using the on-board sound.
I do not experience any dropped frames during my captures (MPEG-1, I-Frames only, 7.5Mbps, 640x480) and the audio sync in my original capture and my finished VCD are perfect (something that I cannot not say for my Dazzle II).

[hitechjunkie]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-15 06:15:39, jwhitlow wrote:
I do not experience any dropped frames during my captures (MPEG-1, I-Frames only, 7.5Mbps, 640x480) and the audio sync in my original capture and my finished VCD are perfect (something that I cannot not say for my Dazzle II).
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow! That's a high quality MPEG-1. What are the specs of your final VCD?

[jwhitlow]

I am encoding to standard VCD resolution at non-standard bitrate. I encode in TMPGEnc:

352x240 29.97fps VBR 1850kbps, Layer-2 44100Hz 224kbps

Only one of my friends players (of the ones that will play CDRs)has a problem with my discs.
The above settings allow me to record an hour long show, edit out the commercials, encode to VCD & burn to a 74 minute CDR.

[RaleighNC]

If your video seems insync thru out the mpeg, u can flask/mpegx >> frameserve to an encoder(cce,lsx,tmpgenc). then mux the audio with the video file.

This seems to work when cutting commercials out with mpegs with dropped frames. My captures usually have 1-4% drops.

[hitechjunkie]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-15 06:46:44, jwhitlow wrote:
I am encoding to standard VCD resolution at non-standard bitrate. I encode in TMPGEnc:

352x240 29.97fps VBR 1850kbps, Layer-2 44100Hz 224kbps

Only one of my friends players (of the ones that will play CDRs)has a problem with my discs.
The above settings allow me to record an hour long show, edit out the commercials, encode to VCD & burn to a 74 minute CDR.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

at that VBR bitrate, or just a tad higher (1900-2100), you could encode to a 352x480 rez instead and see a dramatic improvement in video quality and still get it on one 74 min disc, if your player can handle the increased rez. it may wind up being less compatible with other players, though. but what the hey, invite the friends over to see the higher quality product, or keep the higher quality version for your personal use/collection. media is cheap.

i wonder how many other people, like myself, create two versions of a movie, one disc(352x240) or two disc(352x480) before deciding on the keeper?

[Samurai Oran]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-15 11:50:23, RaleighNC wrote:
If your video seems insync thru out the mpeg, u can flask/mpegx >> frameserve to an encoder(cce,lsx,tmpgenc). then mux the audio with the video file.

This seems to work when cutting commercials out with mpegs with dropped frames. My captures usually have 1-4% drops.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry for the huge delay in answering! Busy....
Thanks for the input!
Sounds like you have had the exact same problem as I am!!
Can you (or anyone!) elaborate??
I have no problem putting some effort into resolving this problem. I'm just not entirely sure what you mean.

Thanks!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Samurai Oran on 2001-12-02 20:53:17 ]</font>