AVI to DVD MPEG (CCE or TMPGenc encoders)

[Sakuya]

I've got a problem. I have an AVI who's size is 640x352. I believe it is widescreen. The video looks normal, no distortions. When I divide that resolution, I get 1.81818181818181818181818. What kind of aspect ratio is that? How should I convert it in TMPGEnc for DVD?

[DJRumpy]

I would convert that one to 1.78 or 1.85. Try both and see which looks better to your eyes.

[Sakuya]

What about one with 512x368? Again, no distortions that I can see. What's up with these weird sizes anyway? Oh and by the way, for the widescreen AVI I mentioned one post above, in TMPGEnc's Advanced tab, Source Aspect Ratio, do I select 16:9 525 line (NTSC)? But then, it's not standard 16:9. Same goes for this one, it's not standard 4:3...

[DJRumpy]

Just treat it as 4:3. You get the weird sizes, because people fudge the cropping when they create the AVI in the first place. Just good old fashioned human error.

Just set it up as 4:3 in TMPGenc, and you should be fine.

[Sakuya]

I would convert that one to 1.78 or 1.85. Try both and see which looks better to your eyes.

You know for the above, how do I set the 1.78/1.85 in TMPGEnc? It's not often that I convert widescreen movies.

[DJRumpy]

You would resize it to the standard dvd resolution for those aspects. Just use one of the Center, Keep Aspect Ratio option. Make sure you try a small clip first to ensure it looks right.

[Sakuya]

So for 1.78, I just need to select 16:9 for aspect ratio? What is 1.85? Also, when I selected my AVI, the source type is non-interlace (progressive). For the "Encode Mode", do I put Interlace or Non-Interlace? The framerate is 29.97.

[DJRumpy]

1.78 is a 16:9 aspect ratio. So is 1.85. Source Type should be progressive, assuming your input is progressive. Encode Mdoe would be "3:2 Pulldown when playback" (again, assuming your source AVI is 23.976 fps progressive). Last but not least, your Frame Rate setting would be 24 FPS (internally 30 fps). You won't see that option until you set the 3:2 Pulldown when Playback option.

I think I put this info in the guide, but I wont' swear to it.

[Sakuya]

Actually, you said if the framerate is 29.97 fps which is what I have, I should set the Encode Mode to "Inverse 3:2 Pulldown". What does that do? I have never tried that before. I previewed it and it doesn't look any different.

[DJRumpy]

If your AVI is 23.976 fps, and your encoding to dvd, your framerate should be set to "24 FPS (Internally 30 fps)". I'll double check the guide to make sure it's correct.

3:2 pulldown makes a 23.976 fps framerate play back at 29.97 fps. Most NTSC dvd's are encoded using this method. It adds pulldown flags to the MPEG stream. When a dvd player hits one of these flags during playback, it duplicates certain fields, converting a 23.976 fps film, to 29.97 fps on the fly.

[DJRumpy]

VIDEO Tab:
Stream Type: MPEG-2 Video
Size: 720 x 480 (replace 480 with 576 for PAL video)
Aspect Ratio: Set this to match the aspect of your input video. Either 4:3 or 16:9
Frame Rate: Set this to your .AVS input files' frame rate. If your input was:
If your input is 25fps: Set this to 25 fps.
If your input is 23.976fps: set this to "23.976 fps (internally 29.97fps). ( IMPORTANT: This setting will not be available until you first set the "Encode Mode" setting further down the Video Tab settings to "3:2 Pulldown when playback".) If your input is 29.97fps: 29.97 fps
Rate Control Mode: 2-pass VBR(VBR). Click the SETTING button next to this, and input the following:

The guide is correct.

[Sakuya]

Thanks. Then what is "Inverse 3:2 Pulldown"? Also, you have not posted on the guide what to do when the AVI is 30 fps.

[DJRumpy]

Treat 30 fps video as 29.97. I've never run across any true 30 fps material. If it's true 30 fps material, then resample it as needed, either to 29.97 fps, or if it's telecined, perform inverse telecine, and resample to 23.976.

TMPGenc lables that setting inverse 3:2 pulldown for some reason. It's called Inverse Telecine. The setting basically detects and compensates for the duplicate fields in the stream by flagging them as pulldown, while not encoding them (remember that these duplicate fields are logical, not real).

DVD2AVI does this, by simply ignoring the pulldown flags in the mpeg stream when it creates the D2V file. In essence, it see's only the original 23.976 fps source.

TMPGenc has to guess if your source is AVI, since AVI doesn't support pulldown flags. It looks for duplicate fields, and then instead of encoding both, it will only encode one, flagging the other field as a pulldown field. Saves bitrate, and gives you a svcd/cvd/dvd compliant mpeg. Your input, and output would still both be 29.97 for all intense and purposes, but the output MPEG would have pulldown flags in it, remaining 23.976 fps internally.

Hopefully you should never need this setting. The only time it would be usefull, is for an NTSC AVI source that was not inverse telecined when it was encoded (it was left 'as is' at 29.97 fps). You could also use it for NTSC MPEG streams, but I would always just use DVD2AVI for those.

True 29.97 interlaced or progressive sources would never use this, and neither would PAL sources.

[Tak]

Hi DJRumpy
Your guide is superb. Thanks to it I have succesfully converted AVIs(XVid) to DVDs.
I have a little question for you because I'm still a bit confused with aspect ratios(I have read through your article on aspect ratios, but I'm still a bit confused).

I have an AVI(XVid) which is 640x352 (1.82:1) [=20:11], 23.976fps.
I followed the thread and realised that I need to use the AVS script for AR1.85:1(ie resize to 720x460, and add 10 on top&bottom). Encoding on 16:9 widescreen mode(is that right?) in CCE.
The problem is, whilst playing back on a standalone DVD player the picture is cut off on the sides by about 32pixels(overscan?).
Would it be OK to add borders, as below
LanczosResize(656,460)
AddBorders(32,10,32,10)
or would that mess up the aspect ratio?
Do I need to add more on top&bottom to keep the aspect ratio?
If so, by how much?
Or have I misunderstood completely and gone wrong somewhere?

[DJRumpy]

Of course you can change any of the borders to suite yourself. It would make the picture a bit taller as a result. 32 pixels on each side is a lot of overscan. Usually you would miss only about 14 pixels or so. I'd look at your tv adjustment too.

I would just reduce the amount on the top and bottom by the same amount. Technically, you would reduce the vertical by 64x1.85 to maintain aspect ratio, but that seems a bit much to correct for overscan. Although your not using square pixels, I would still minimize the amount you shrink from your vertical. Try starting at just 32 pixels from top and bottom (64 pixels total). You don't want to end up with too much letterboxing. Encode a small clip and see how it looks.

[Tak]

Thanks for your reply
As you suggested I shall have a look at the TV setting, if there is any that I can tweak.

To keep the AR, did you mean to say, add top&bottom by 64/1.85... not 64x1.85?

[DJRumpy]

Sorry about that. I answered your post at 4:30 in the morning

Yes. 64/1.85

[Sakuya]

What should I do if the FPS is 24.000? Should I be selecting 23.976 in TMPGEnc and then setting the 3:2 Pulldown since that's the closest?

[DJRumpy]

You should still be able to select 24 fps for your source on the advanced tab, and 3:2 Pulldown When Playback. TMPGenc should be able to handle the change, but I would encode a small section just to be sure the output is 29.97 fps.

If the output is not 29.97 fsp, you must change the framerate to 23.976 and then encode. You can use the 'Do Not Framerate Convert' option in TMPGenc to do that for the video and set your input fps to 23.976. You will also need to resample the audio with BeSweet.

[dvd_jr]

um hi, i have a question. ive just encoded another movie, followed the whole guide, used tmpgenc plus (and also have all settings set up exactly as same what is written in the guide). then opened it in tmpgenc dvd author, it showed me this message. how do i fix it?

The video GOP is too long.

The video GOP is too long.
For a standard DVD it is necessary that the GOP fulfill the following condition:

Max 36 fields (18 frames) (NTSC format only)
Max 30 fields (15 frames) (PAL format only)
[/code]

________________________________________
movie spec:
vid codec: DivX 5.0
aspect: 720*400
FPS: 25
time: 1:36:29

audio encode: 6 ch ac3
ave Bitrate: 448 CBR

bitrate thats calculated : 5863
MAX: 9341
________________________________________


ive converted from PAL to NTSC, here's my script

AVISource("D:\project\movie.avi",false)
LanczosResize(720,460)
AddBorders(0,10,0,10 )
AssumeFPS(23.976, True)
ConvertToYUY2()

[DJRumpy]

Your gop setting in TMPGenc is incorrect. In the settings tab, try setting your settings to 1, 4, 2, and 1. You can also check the 'Output bitstream for edit (Closed GOP) to ensure maximum compatability with mpeg authoring software.

[dvd_jr]

first time i loaded to tmpgenc dvd author saying the GOP error i mentioned yesterday. so then i encoded again and set the GOP settings to 1(number of I picture), 4(number of P picture), 2(number of B), and 1(and sequence header), with max bitrate set to 9341(from bitrate calculator), and still experiencing the same error. also when i load up the video and the audio on dvd author it shows its more than 4.7GB, but its only 100MB more, so im wondering if i can overburn it. if not, do i just lower the max bitrate to 9000?

[DJRumpy]

Overburn varies depending on the burner, however, a single sided dvd burner will burn only 4.3 Gigabytes onto a dvdr, not 4.7 GB as the disc shows. They base the 4.7 off of a 1000 kbytes, while a computer uses 1024 kbytes. I don't know why they do this, other than trying to make it look like it will hold more than it actaully does . Your calculated bitrate is essentially correct, given the specs you have here (I came out with 5856 kbps). Either your Average settings was not where you think it was set, or you have added multiple audio tracks, while only calculating for one. The alterntive is that TMPGenc completely disregarded your Average settings, which isn't likely.

In regards to your max bitrate question, the max bitrate has absolutely no effect on the output mpeg's size. Only the Average bitrate setting will effect output size.

[dvd_jr]

so should i lower the ave bitrate to 5853(or lower)? what about the GOP error? ive set all settings right and still getting the same error, what gives? :-\

[jyn999]

Encoders project the size of the output based on a sampling of the input source file and applying an average bit rate. There are too many variables that affect the size of the output ... number of fast motion scenes, the amount of detail in scenes, etc.

I would let the encoding/authoring program do its thing. When it has finished writing the output files, run DVD Shrink against them.

[dvd_jr]

DVD shrink? isint it for ripping DVDs only?

anyways, ive just encoded again with CCE sp on my uncle's computer, still turned out the same size but fixed the GOP problem.

so im wondering whats the best way to lower the size of the video without lossing the quality .

[jyn999]

DVD shrink? isint it for ripping DVDs only?

Yes, for about 99.44% of the world's population.
But seriously, reducing the size of DVD content to fit DVD-5 is DVD Shrink's purpose.

[dvd_jr]

what it means by reducing is actually taking off unnecessary contents such as special features, subtitles etc. but now i only have video itself how do i reduce the size?

[jyn999]

what it means by reducing is actually taking off unnecessary contents such as special features, subtitles etc. but now i only have video itself how do i reduce the size?

(1) Not really. You can keep all the features and DVD Shrink will reduce (through transcoding) the size of the files down to 4.7GB or a custom size that you can enter.

(2) By video are you refering to the assorted VOB, IFO, and BUP files in the VIDEO_TS folder or the MPG files? If you're talking about the VIDEO_TS folder, then use DVD Shrink. If you're talking about MPG files, then you have to re-encode at a lower bit rate.

[dvd_jr]

ok this is so confusing, when i combined both video and audio together, i had about 5-8 sec audio delay. like the video goes first then the audio. i believe audio is fine, i checked with ac3fix, have no errors found, but i still used the "fixed" audio file. any ideas? does that ac3machine or whatever can fix this problem?

btw, i see the duration is different when i dragged .avs onto CCE. the actual movie(.avi itself) is only 1:36:29 according to gspot, but when i dragged the .avs file onto CCE its showing 1:40:30, im guessing this is why i had audio delays, any ideas how to fix this?