Buying counterfeit CD's in Greece = Jail Time

[Roundabout]

From BBC online: Just in time to keep Satstorm out of trouble (j/k! )

Greek holiday warning on buying fake CD's

Millions of holidaymakers going to Greece this summer have been warned they could be jailed for buying pirated CDs after a buyer was imprisoned.
A man was jailed for three months by an Athens court for buying illegal CDs in the country's first case of its kind.

He had been arrested as he bought two CDs from a vendor in Athens last week, said the International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI).

The group gave a clear warning it would target buyers of counterfeit CDs.

IFPI spokesman Ion Stamboulis said: "This is not a symbolic measure. We are determined to prosecute the buyers and we have the support of the authorities."

Greece has the worst piracy rate in western Europe.

About 10 million pirated CDs are sold in Greece each year - the same number of sales as those of genuine CDs - at an average cost of six euros (£4) each.

Travellers from the UK are among the customers for counterfeit CDs sold openly on the streets, outside cafes or on beaches.

The Greek authorities appear to be acting to stave off the threat of an increase in piracy anticipated during this summer's Olympics in Athens.

About 1,000 vendors have been prosecuted during the past few years, but this is the first time a buyer has been jailed.

"Until now, we were focusing on the sellers, but Greek courts generally hand them light suspended sentences and they resume their trade as soon as they are released," said Mr Stamboulis.

He said production and distribution were virtually controlled by what he called a "Nigerian mafia".

He said he expected a big surge in pirated CD trafficking during the Olympics from 13 - 29 August.

[paulw]

Comit a robery that's OK but just you try to by a hot CD.... jailtime.

Why don't they go after the producers of these CDs??

[iooi]

Thats Greece of my hoilday list then....

Me thinks it not quite the way to attract visitors for the games.

[Nilfennasion]

I was just thinking the same thing myself. I have been spending much of the past few months thinking about the places in Europe that I want to go to due to severe discontent with the country I am in (long story). Greece has just been crossed off my list, probably permanently, because of laws like that. I don't understand how any country can mistake such laws as being good for it.

[flaninacupboard]

well, don't buy pirate crap and you're ok. i mean really, £4 for a knocked off, badly pressed, misspelled inlay piece of shit, or £8 to buy the real thing from cd-wow. hmm........

[Nilfennasion]

I'm not a legal expert. I am an author, so that means I study cause and effect a lot. So I know what I am talking about when I say that this law, or rather this way of applying it, is directing punishment at one of the victims in this case. Maybe locals knowingly buy pirated product in Western Europe or Southeast Asia, but most of the tourists who do this do so unknowingly. To wit, they are suckers. Or at least, a significant percentage of them are suckers. Which means that the Greek government is boasting that they are going to punish victims. Naturally, anyone who is interested in justice, even the kind of justice defined in the US legal system, should find this utterly abhorrent. I can just see films being made about this, films of similar design to the films Australians make about people being jailed in Southeast Asia for drug smuggling. One can only hope that this legal policy does not last long enough to fuel the subgenre.

(rant.off)

[painkiller]

Actually, the good ol' USofA has a lot of laws (states and federal) already on the books (for some time) that can penalize people for knowingly accepting, and purchasing, stolen goods.

I would guess that this wouldn't be long in coming to our neck of the woods.

After all, it's just semantics.

And who gets there first.

[Nilfennasion]

Knowingly purchasing stolen property is one thing, admittedly. If you buy a car, for example, knowing full well that it was stolen from someone else, you're helping to create a market for stolen cars, and therefore should be treated as an accessory after the fact.

But where does that stop? Is it when the person doesn't know the item has been stolen? Or when the prosecutor can't prove the person knew?

I guess what I am trying to say is that we need less laws that throw up the white flag to the real criminals, not more. The amount that I can steal from the film studios in a day, while it might sound impressive to those who have yet to buy a DVD+RW drive and try it out themselves, is pretty much nothing in comparison to how much the pirates who have access to real pressing plants can steal. When I was a young lad, the software industry estimated that for every piece of software purchased legitimately in Australia, fifteen copies were made. I am willing to bet a similar ratio exists in Singapore, thanks largely to the mass piracy industry. And yet they are going after the buyers?

[painkiller]

But that is exactly the point I am making.

For now (the most part), the RIAA had been finding, and suing, the distributors of the music files via the p2p software that identifies each and every user.

Depending on the measure of success they have (have had) with that approach, they can easily justify going after the users/downloaders themselves.

I think they already have started.

Same goes for the MPAA and the film/video sharers.

After all, in court, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

And, what's more, the system here in the USA is that anyone can be suspect, and arrested. That approach is guilty before innocent. Once in the courts, you have to prove your innocence.

It's never the other way around. At least here in the States. Supposedly.

Which is why I had a real heartburn about the story where the RIAA had, themselves, dressed up in uniforms and arrested street vendors in California. The real point there, as far as I am concerned, is that I am not sure that they have the power to arrest. Never saw a followup to that story.

Which is why everyone has to stay on there toes.


My other concern is where the congress and video manufacturers (of the next generation HDTV monitors and peripherals) themselves are taking the step(s) to enhance the electronics to deny the average consumer the ability to record premium content. Or even regular broadcast.

THAT flies in the face of current copyright laws.

Hhhmph.

[gitreel]

And, what's more, the system here in the USA is that anyone can be suspect, and arrested. That approach is guilty before innocent. Once in the courts, you have to prove your innocence.
It's never the other way around. At least here in the States.

You have the justice system backwards my friend. You are innocent until proven guilty. The prosecution has the burden to prove you are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That is why there are trials and jury's.

[offline]

If there is one thing you do not want to stuff around, that is
the Greek Police!!

[pyrohydra]

This is the country that tried to ban all video games. Whatever happened to that law?

[hhhhbk]

i went to cyprus a couple years back and got some vcds
they were awful cam jobs so i threw them out
fortunately i had a vcd player with me otherwise i may have bought more

the disks both cd and vcd were cheap around about the £1-2 mark
im sure by now they have some very high quality full dvdrips available

with it now being an offence to buy pirated music/films from foreign(to britain) countries

does that mean that you get in trouble for the fake leather belts that are in all these countries too

[SaSi]

Thats Greece of my hoilday list then....

Me thinks it not quite the way to attract visitors for the games.

This discussion can get very political very quickly, so let's all excercise caution. 8)
The BBC (for reasons I expect to be well thought by them) seem to want to keep us on our toes over the past couple of years.

Jailing of a fake CD buyer has not hit the news in the local media, anyway, so I can't comment on the details of any such event.

It is true that counterfeit CD distribution here in Greece is a serious concern. These are not recordable CDs made by anyone at home. These are mastered pressed copies of the originals. Which means that some sort of production facility is involved.

They are being distributed mostly by illegal immigrants, carried in black plastic garbage bags (!!).

iooi, were you planning to visit Greece and buy counterfeit CDs? If so, then not comming over is a good thought. Otherwise, you are welcome to enjoy the sun and the hospitality.

[SaSi]

This is the country that tried to ban all video games. Whatever happened to that law?

The act was banned by the constitutional committee as in-constitutional. Actually, it was not video games that were threatened (again the media being over-reacting). It was internet cafe's that were hosting illegal betting over the internet that was the problem.

[painkiller]

Quite right, gitreel, in my haste - I put it backwards.
Thank you.

[Nilfennasion]

The fact that you can buy pressed, mastered pirate discs in these countries in spite of how they're supposedly "cracking down" says it all for me.

It is true that counterfeit CD distribution here in Greece is a serious concern. These are not recordable CDs made by anyone at home. These are mastered pressed copies of the originals. Which means that some sort of production facility is involved.

There are a lot of counterfeit CDs and DVDs being distributed in Australia, too. It's like SPAM - once you arrest one counterfeiter in one place, another pops up elsewhere. It's like a massive-scale game of whack-a-mole. Without wanting to politicise the topic, it is of concern to me that methods of dealing with the problem which have failed to work over twenty years are still being used.

I can remember when the first VCRs hit the consumer Australian market. I was about four years old in those days, and believe me, this current spate of new anti-copying laws is an exact repeat of what happened then. If there is one thing I'd like to say to the MPAA or anyone who enacts these other ridiculous laws, it would be "you've failed. Move on."

[MOVIEGEEK]

"They are being distributed mostly by illegal immigrants, carried in black plastic garbage bags (!!)."

Those damn gypsies!

[iooi]

Thats Greece of my hoilday list then....

Me thinks it not quite the way to attract visitors for the games.

This discussion can get very political very quickly, so let's all excercise caution. 8)
The BBC (for reasons I expect to be well thought by them) seem to want to keep us on our toes over the past couple of years.

Jailing of a fake CD buyer has not hit the news in the local media, anyway, so I can't comment on the details of any such event.

It is true that counterfeit CD distribution here in Greece is a serious concern. These are not recordable CDs made by anyone at home. These are mastered pressed copies of the originals. Which means that some sort of production facility is involved.

They are being distributed mostly by illegal immigrants, carried in black plastic garbage bags (!!).

iooi, were you planning to visit Greece and buy counterfeit CDs? If so, then not comming over is a good thought. Otherwise, you are welcome to enjoy the sun and the hospitality.

As you say these are PRESSED disks and as such Joe Public has no idea they are FAKE even if they are sold out of black bags on a street corner...(We do that over here only in fields ) The fact they seem cheep to us has more to do with how we percieve costs in Greece....
A lot cheaper then the UK.....
Personnaly i wont be comming to Greece in the future even to buy cheep disks... Local car boot is a lot cheaper.
As you are now part of the EEC im sure this stupid way of doing things will attract the "Court of Human Rights" and end up being dumped fast...once he do gooders get wound up...

[SaSi]

iooi,

thanks for your kind thoughts...

BTW, we have been part of the EEC for almost 25 years now.

[Nilfennasion]

Well, one stupid law in 25 years is not all that bad, I suppose.

[iooi]

iooi,

thanks for your kind thoughts...

BTW, we have been part of the EEC for almost 25 years now.

Well that shows how little notice i take of the whole euro thing.....

And they expect us to vote next month on it......

I vote we get the yanks to drop a bomb on the whole charade...

[vcdforme]

God I love this site!
In 5 minutes we go from pirate CD's to bombing all
of Europe.
I'm sure our Trigger Happy prez would only be too happy to help.


Save the children!
Buy a cd, donate to the gypsy fund.

[flaninacupboard]

say goodbye to baldrick, sasi and satstorm then.....

[VCDHunter]

say goodbye to baldrick, sasi and satstorm then.....

and you and I.

[Capmaster]

say goodbye to baldrick, sasi and satstorm then.....

and you and I.

Naah. We wouldn't bomb europe. Where would our yuppies and DINKs get their Land Rovers, beemers and Saabs from then

[Sillyname]

Damn spongedivers! It was probably an operation in cahoots with the police there! Like buying heroin at a MOTEL.