JVC DR-M10SL Anyone have one? Any Experience with?

[kabanero]

One note - I've confirmed for myself what FulciLives and others have recommended in the past about home video footage. If you try to record two hours of hand-held video camera footage to a single 4.7GB DVD, you will have compression artifacts (blocks, etc.) all over the place. One hour per DVD if you are converting home video is best for archiving.

can someone explain why this is true?

so this means I need to record in XP mode?

Most of hand-held video cameras these days are MiniDVs and Digital8s. I don't think that so many people still use Video8 or Hi8 (it is like VHS and SVHS). In this case MiniDV and D8 both have format DV (DV25) which is 25 mbits/sec and 720x480 of resolution. And this is a lot of information per second. DV is compressed 5:1. MPEG-2 for DVD is usually compressed ~32:1. One hour of DV AVI is 13 MB. DVD disk holds 4.7 GB. If you transfer DV to DVD with stand alone using SP (2 hours) mode, you will have blockiness on every dvd recorder (JVC, Panasonic, Pioneer, LiteOn etc.) no matter what. BUT, on some recorders it will be more blockiness, on some it will be less. On JVC it will be less blockiness in SP, on Panasonic and Pioneer it will be much more.

I record my D8 tapes to JVC using only XP (1 hour) mode.

[gshelley61]

One note - I've confirmed for myself what FulciLives and others have recommended in the past about home video footage. If you try to record two hours of hand-held video camera footage to a single 4.7GB DVD, you will have compression artifacts (blocks, etc.) all over the place. One hour per DVD if you are converting home video is best for archiving.

can someone explain why this is true?

so this means I need to record in XP mode?

The reason analog and digital hand-held camcorder video is hard to record at "archive" quality beyond the XP mode is because the footage is virtually never completely still. MPEG2 VBR (variable bit rate) compression works by saving data space during still or low movement scenes... if the frame to frame changes are minimal, not as much data is required to digitally store those images. Higher movement scenes, where each frame is different from the one that preceded it, require more data space to accurately represent the images.

Professionally filmed movies have the benefit of tripods, steady-cams and other devices that keep background image changes minimal (except in the case of very high action movies). Plus, the finished images are usually cleaner (no video noise). So, DVD (MPEG2) recordings of commercially made movies and videos transfer rather well, even at longer recording times.

Home videotape images from hand-held camcorders are literally constantly moving (even if you have the digital steady cam feature). This takes lots of data to accurately reproduce without compression artifacting (like motion "blocking", etc.)

If you want to archive family video in a high quality form that you may want to edit into a finished project at some later date, use XP mode.

[broadway]

thanks for the quick answers!

I have about 8 VHS-C tapes that I recorded, so this is great advice.

[lordsmurf]

This is why home movies are best edited on a PC with multi-pass VBR encoding. A DVD recorder is a VCR replacement or a capture device for highquality sources that can do fine at MPEG capture.

Home movies generally need more attention that a quick-n-dirty transfer.

Either that, or learn to have a steadier hand.

[tag]

If you want to archive family video in a high quality form that you may want to edit into a finished project at some later date, use XP mode.

I have already archived a bunch of VHS and Hi8 tapes on miniDV. Obviously, each miniDV tape is about 60 minutes and the only camcorder I plan to use, from this point on, is my Sony miniDV.

Thus, I don't plan to use anything other than straight XP mode; don't see a need to do so. But NOW, you've picqued my curiosity and I'll probably pick out one of my home videos, maybe one shot with my (now departed) VHS camcorder, and try both SP and XP.

[tag]

BTW, I just set up my M10S. Immediately thereafter I threw an old DVD-R I burned on my PC and, of course, it played fine.

Next, for laughs, I threw in a crappy old Memorex DVD+R and IT played without a hitch! This thing choked on damn near every one of my players so I was rather surprised, as well as pleased, that the M10 handled it without a problem.

[broadway]

This is why home movies are best edited on a PC with multi-pass VBR encoding. A DVD recorder is a VCR replacement or a capture device for highquality sources that can do fine at MPEG capture.

Home movies generally need more attention that a quick-n-dirty transfer.

Either that, or learn to have a steadier hand.

yeah, after my first try, I bought a monopod more for making it easier on my arms than anything else

I'm definitely getting the miniDV camcorder this year!

[cchang]

I keep RAM disk for On-Disk timer recording inside all the time. When it records it is cool. When it is in standby mode it is warm (probably fan is off). When no disk inside, it goes to sleep (display turns off) and it is cool.

I noticed that I have to change the setup-->display set -->power save to "on" to enable the "sleep mode". Otherwise it is quite warm with or without disk inside.

[magnu]

Have to say I have given up on this machine & returned it to the store I got it from. Not only did I have continuous problems with blank media, which it sometimes recognized, & sometimes didn't, it would also stop suddenly during a recording, tell me to 'Please Wait' for almost 30mins, then switch itself off. When I put it back on, it just continuosly flashed the word 'Loading' for what seemed like another 30 mins!

And before anyone says bad media, I tried five different reputable brands (including JVC!), & the same thing would happen?

That problem may be down to the machine, but the fact that it also would not edit anywhere a Chapter was placed, even after I removed the Chapter, & that it wouldn't play some of my local R4 discs, which the machine should be doing, yet it plays R1. I even got told that some of my own created DVDs were the wrong Region?

Anyway, even though it may have a great chip inside it, that doesn't ake it the best machine out there.

[JSquare]

Have to say I have given up on this machine & returned it to the store I got it from. Not only did I have continuous problems with blank media, which it sometimes recognized, & sometimes didn't, it would also stop suddenly during a recording, tell me to 'Please Wait' for almost 30mins, then switch itself off. When I put it back on, it just continuosly flashed the word 'Loading' for what seemed like another 30 mins!

Any idea of where your unit was manufactured?
I had similar problems with the 1st DR-MV1S(VHS/DVDR) I tested which was made in China.

[magnu]

I believe it was China. Couldn't be 100% certain, but I'm sure that's what it says on the back. Also, most electrical equipment we see here seems to come from Asia.

I should also point out that the Australian models don't have the letter L on the end. Just DR-M10S.

It may be that what we have in Australia are all Chinese in make, & have similar problems?

[tag]

I noticed that I have to change the setup-->display set -->power save to "on" to enable the "sleep mode". Otherwise it is quite warm with or without disk inside.

I just set "power save" to "on". However, when I felt the top of the machine, it wasn't the least bit warm and I have my JVC 2902 VCR sitting directly on top of my M10S. Don't know what to tell you.

[tag]

It may be that what we have in Australia are all Chinese in make, & have similar problems?

My M10S was also "Made in China" and my first two recordings went without a hitch; the machine performed flawlessly.

So far, so good in my case. Sorry to hear you're experiencing problems, though.

[tag]

My results (first two disks):

I have a circa 18 year old VHS home video. I recorded one disk in XP (running time turned out to be about 1:05) and another in FR (set to 2:11). The disks are both perfect except for some blocking on the one recorded in FR and, even then, only on some (very) high motion scenes. The disk recorded in XP is simply perfect; it handled the high motion scenes with aplomb. Otherwise, on the rest of the material, I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two recordings.

When I say "high motion", imagine a dog running down the side of a road, bouncing up and down, swaying from side to side, and a camcorder being held about a foot off the ground (yes, shooting the less desirable end of the dog) being constantly, radically, and quickly bounced and shaken. In fact, I have to admit it's almost nauseating to watch. Also, there are a couple scenes where the dog is in a lake on a windy day, rippling water in the foreground and leaves on trees blowing in the background, then the dog runs out of the water and shakes the water off vigorously. The M10S, in XP mode, did an excellent job.

[cchang]

I noticed that I have to change the setup-->display set -->power save to "on" to enable the "sleep mode". Otherwise it is quite warm with or without disk inside.

I just set "power save" to "on". However, when I felt the top of the machine, it wasn't the least bit warm and I have my JVC 2902 VCR sitting directly on top of my M10S. Don't know what to tell you.

That is the samething I did. The factory default is "power save" off. The machine is quite warm with that setting when in the standby mode( clock visible) since the fan is off. To enable the "sleep mode (clock disappear)" when power is off, I have to set "power save" to "on" and take the disk out. Then it will go to sleep and stay cool.

BTW, I also got my machine from eCost (ordered on 06/14/04) and it is made in Japan. It is working very well. Color is much more saturated than my LiteOn 5001.

[tag]

The factory default is "power save" off. The machine is quite warm with that setting when the power is off (standby mode) since the fan is off. To enable the "sleep mode when power is off, I have to set "power save" to "on" and take the disk out.

Yes, the default is "off" but even on that setting my machine wasn't getting the least bit warm. In fact, I'm about 30 minutes into a recording at the moment, just touched the machine, and it's only a bit warm to the touch.......that's all.

I changed power save to "on" just for the heck of it and the only difference it seems to have made is now the clock doesn't appear (i.e. it's totally and completely "off"). BTW, are you leaving a disk in your machine? Might that have something to do with the heat issue?

BTW, I also got my machine from eCost (ordered on 06/14/04) and it is made in Japan. It is working very well.

You know what? That's comforting to me because the thought crossed my mind that they might be shipping units made in China to the deep discounters and those made in Japan to others, such as Crutchfield. Now, it just looks like they're most likely being distributed equally amongst all resellers.

[cchang]

The factory default is "power save" off. The machine is quite warm with that setting when the power is off (standby mode) since the fan is off. To enable the "sleep mode when power is off, I have to set "power save" to "on" and take the disk out.

Yes, the default is "off" but even on that setting my machine wasn't getting the least bit warm. In fact, I'm about 30 minutes into a recording at the moment, just touched the machine, and it's only a bit warm to the touch.......that's all.

I am not talking about recording. The machine is cool while recording since the fan is on. But it is quite warm in standby mode when you power down since the fan is off. May be you did not notice it since you got a VCR on top. I got a LiteOn 5001 and got very paranoid about the heat issue. Or maybe your made in China machine got different design. One guy noticed a LG 4040B drive inside the JVC recorder-VHS combo unit which was made in China. However when I opened my Japanese made DR-M10S, I found totally different drive. It just marked "PMD 0100A" without maker's name. I am ordering another unit for my friend. In case it is made in China, then I will open it up and compare it to my own unit.

[JSquare]

BTW, I also got my machine from eCost (ordered on 06/14/04) and it is made in Japan. It is working very well. Color is much more saturated than my LiteOn 5001.

Got the JVC from eCost today and it was made in China, so far is working fine with all types of media and recording modes.

Progressive scan JVC players are very good in reproducing rich/saturated colors and very high levels of brightness/contrast. At least my JVC 7-Disc changer and this recorder are very good at it.

One thing that I noticed about the DR-M10S is that it soften the image too much on recordings made below SP(more than 2hrs) to a point that looks blurry specially on wide angle shots. That may be the reason why they could get away with 8hrs on one DVD. Personally I like to see more sharpness on my recordings, but that could mean more macroblocks on high action scenes.

So far all my test are from analog sources(VHS/Cable), that same source was used on 3hrs recording mode made on a Pioneer and they look much sharper and saturated than the JVC on same recording mode. Next I will try some digital source like DSS or DVD.

One guy noticed a LG 4040B drive inside the JVC recorder-VHS combo unit which was made in China. However when I opened my Japanese made DR-M10S, I found totally different drive. It just marked "PMD 0100A" without maker's name. I am ordering another unit for my friend. In case it is made in China, then I will open it up and compare it to my own unit.

It was me who noticed the LG drive on the DVDR/VHS combo, based on the tray of the DR-M10S seems to have a different drive, but I haven't opened yet to confirm the differences, and the temperature on my unit it's normal when turned-on or standbye mode.

[tag]

But it is quite warm in standby mode when you power down since the fan is off. May be you did not notice it since you got a VCR on top. I got a LiteOn 5001 and got very paranoid about the heat issue.

Actually, heat was one of my main concerns since I also had a 5001 (for all of a day and a half). I mean, that thing got disturbingly warm just when I went through the setup process and I was surprised they didn't ship it with a spatula so owners could flip their burgers. Subsequent to returning the 5001, I read a number of accounts of owners installing fans, drilling holes, et al.

Anyway, I lifted my VCR off the top of my M10S after the latter had been powered down overnight (power save off) and the machine was stone cold. Regardless, I set the power save to "on" just in case.

[magnu]

As some may know, I had problems with my JVC, so I returned it to the store. Problem is, though, silly me didn't finalize 2 recordings I made on DVD-RW.

Is there any possible way to view these files, either on a player or DVD-ROM on the PC?

[Neuron]

....One thing that I noticed about the DR-M10S is that it soften the image too much on recordings made below SP(more than 2hrs) to a point that looks blurry specially on wide angle shots. That may be the reason why they could get away with 8hrs on one DVD. Personally I like to see more sharpness on my recordings, but that could mean more macroblocks on high action scenes.

Yes, it does. But I would say on recordings made below LP mode (more than 4hours). 2/4 hours recording looks good enough to me and does not require picture adjustment when I playback recorded video. In my observation “too much” soft image occurs when I make recording at more than 4 hours. You can adjust sharpness by select “SHARP” option in “Picture Control function” using “On-screen” bar during playback.

[ejai]

I hope you got it back! Believe me the Panasonic recorders are great machines but cannot match the quality of the JVC. The Panasonic dvds I recorded earlier are good but if I had the originals back I would re-record them using the JVC.

That's how much of a difference I noticed between the two, I am very particular about quality. 8)

[tag]

Okay, now that my M10S is recording like a charm, I need a decent software solution for adding basic menus, adding/deleting/changing chapters, and basic (very basic, as in just trimming the beginning and end where the DVD recording starts before the source material begins playing and/or ends after there is no more source material to record).


I was using the trial version of TDA and that seemed to worked fine. I just popped a disk recorded using the M10S into my PC and it held my hand all the way through burning. However, there was no sound which I can only attribute to the trial version not having the AC-3 plugin.

I was also looking at Womble MPEG Video Wizard. I downloaded the latest version but it insists on a serial number (thought there was a trial). Anyway, I recall reading something regarding MVW's lack of AC-3 support. Has that changed?

One thing is I've basically given up on DVD Architect. It can't seem to deal with VOBs and even plays hell with the M2Vs I got using DVD Decrypter. Obviously, I'd prefer to use DVDA since I already own it but it sure appears as if it's not going to work for the purpose outlined above.


I'm open to recommendations here and would appreciate any input anyone might be willing to offer.

Thanks!

[gshelley61]

TMPGEnc DVD Author works well, as long as you do not need frame-accurate editing. Also, during the editing and authoring process, you won't be able to hear the AC3 audio unless you purchase their plug-in. However, the final DVD will have the AC3 and will play fine.

Womble sends you a temporary alphanumerical "key" to your email address in order for you to activate the free 30 day trial. MPEG Video Wizard is an excellent, very fast, frame accurate editor and does not re-encode (unless you use some of the fancier transitions or filters). AC3 works fine in this program. It does not author DVD's, though.

There's a freeware program called MPEG2Schnitt that will perform simple I and P frame cutting and chapter selection, plus you can hear the AC3 audio during the process. You can author simple menu-free DVD's with IFOEdit. To demux VOB's or .MPG files, use VOBEdit for free.

[tag]

Thanks for the information! Good stuff! I don't where I got the impression that Womble had authoring capabilities, though.

Right now I'm leaning toward TDA because of its ease of use and the fact that it's pretty much an all-in-one solution, at least for my purposes. I already have about 5 thousand apps on my PC and would really like to avoid adding to the list.

Thanks again!

[tag]

FWIW, I decided to go with TDA. Just bought it bundled with the AC-3 plugin.

So, it looks like I'll be recording VHS/Hi8 tapes to DVD using the M10S, popping the disk into my PC's DVD writer, and then using TDA to author and, probably, burn.

Given the above scenario, is there any reason to use RAM over RW for the M10S recordings?

Thanks for any input.

[FulciLives]

So, it looks like I'll be recording VHS/Hi8 tapes to DVD using the M10S, popping the disk into my PC's DVD writer, and then using TDA to author and, probably, burn.

I use TDA myself but I the end I use TDA to make an ISO image file and THEN I do the actual BURNING with DVD Decrypter.

Why?

I have heard some (not many) people having trouble with the burning application built-in TDA but I have NEVER had a problem BURNING with DVD Decrypter.

Overall I am very impressed with TDA for the features and ease-of-use ... just a shame the MENUS can't be more complex but the CONTENT is what matters to me. I ain't spending all day with DVD-Lab etc. just to get a fancy MENU design.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[gshelley61]

...is there any reason to use RAM over RW for the M10S recordings?

Thanks for any input.

Several of us have had trouble with DVD-VR recordings (.VRO files). They take a lot longer to extract than .VOB's and for some reason can be buggy at times. DVD-RAM only can be recorded using the VR format. However, some folks like DVD-RAM and have no problems with .VRO files.

You can choose either the DVD-Video format (.VOB files) or DVD-VR when using DVD-RW's to record. I have decided to use DVD-RW's in DVD-Video format because it is faster and easier to deal with for me. Another plus is that finalized DVD-RW's can be played in almost any newer DVD player, DVD-RAM's cannot.

[lordsmurf]

I have MUCH trouble with TDA burning correctly on my second system. Add that to it's very basic features and low quality (on aliasing of fonts especially) and it's not an option for me.

I use Womble MPEG-VCR, followed by DVDit! PE or DVDit! 5.

The JVC makes compliant files. Only reason to really use TDA is for it's ability to take non-compliant files. And it's cheap.

Good luck at TDA. I'm sure you'll like it at first, but quickly be aggravated with it's limitations and quality.

TDA also has trouble making menu buttons link properly. It is a bit barbaric trying to edit templates too. Not at all easy like other software to make menus from scratch (not using their templates). Even DVD Studio Pro is easier in this regard.

[D Dawson]

I have had this machine for about a month, it is connected to my sky digital box and my tv. Wanting to hear other people's views on the JVC DR-M10SL, I hooked up with this forum and read most of the first posts on this subject, which I found very informative and interesting.

I'm experiencing some problems with the JVC DR-M10. When I come back from my work at evening and switch it on from standby mode, it goes into the "LOADING" mode and can take up to 30 minutes to switch on. Also, I get horizontal green lines flashing across the video channels. However, these go away when the machine has warmed up. I have read the previous posts about "LOADING" problems, so I will try to insert a different disc when this occurs. I doubt that this will help, because it does recover from LOADING mode and reads and records to the disc that was it to start with.

I also have noticed sparkles across the screen when I go into the navigation menu. This is a minor thing, but it shouldn't be there should it?