JVC DR-M10SL Anyone have one? Any Experience with?

[gshelley61]

You should format the -RW with the JVC for DVD-Video recording instead of VR.

[magnu]

My recording using Timer & FR(JUST) gave me the settings of 544x576 once more. It doesn't happen when I record at an even longer time using FR, but not the timer.
I was under the impression that VR Mode is the only way to get FR recordings, but since reading up on it, the only thing it seems to relate to really is Chapter placement, though it also seems to make a difference with my other settings too.

According to what I read in the manual, if I understand correctly, you cannot edit the recordings in Video Mode? If this is the case, then it's not too important, as I tend to do it on the PC using Womble software, as it's more accurate.

Though, from what I can see, if I want to make best use of FR, it's best to stick with DVD-RAM.

I am about to experiment with DVD-RAM, but have a question first? On my HS2, I could split tracks, so that one recording becomes more. As yet I've seen no indication that it can be done on the JVC (maybe it's only limited to DVD-RAM?).
Can it be done?

[magnu]

I have just done a test recording, using DVD-RAM, at the same settings as previously, & I still get 544x576 resolution?

DVD-RAM doesn't use the VR or Video Mode settings, so I doubt the thing about recording on DVD-RW in Video Mode will make any difference.

The fact that it has done this using DVD-RAM has made me lose confidence in this model, & I will very likely return it, to replace with the Panasonic E55.

The JVC has, i my view, very limited editing capabilities and, more importantly for a machine with an apparantly superior chip, the inability to record in 'proper' MPEG-2, when attempting to even record the amount the HS2 is capable of to a disc.

Maybe the NTSC model is much better, but I have to say the PAL version isn't!

[gshelley61]

DVD-RAM uses only the VR format to record - that's why you are still getting that odd 544x576 resolution. DVD-RAM allows you a little more flexibility in editing and in using the disc like a mini DVR to time shift TV programs. The DVD-Video format also allows simple editing before finalizing. There is no finalizing with DVD-VR (that's one of the reasons most DVD players can't play VR format back).

Using DVD-RAM and/or the DVD-VR mode to record has been troublesome for many of us when trying to transfer the MPEG2 .VRO files to the PC for editing and authoring the final DVD. The VR format is apparently not as user friendly for that purpose as is standard DVD-Video (.VOB files).

Like I said, use DVD-RW's formatted to record in DVD-Video, finalize the disc, then do your MPEG2 editing and authoring of the final DVD-R on your computer. Also, note that the FR function works just fine with DVD-Video recording.

Going to the Panasonic model won't help... plus, you lose the ability to record to -RW's and you'll have no DNR video noise reduction prior to encoding. I have an E50, and the JVC makes a better MPEG2 recording than my Panasonic does, period.

Read through the instructions for your JVC a bit more thoroughly... I think you will find it does everything that you want it to.

[magnu]

I'll give it one last shot. I've just recorded something in Video Mode, using a few FR settings I would like the ability to use, & I'm just awaiting Finalizing on the JVC, so as to check how it has worked out. I should know very soon how it went.

I presume, from what you are saying, that I should ignore both VR Mode, & DVD-RAM (since it's automatically VR Mode already), record in Video Mode, then bung it in the PC.

If this works, then I'll stick with it after all. I have a Panasonic HS2, which I was planning to sell to an interested friend, if I can find a decent replacement. As most of what I plan to keep gets re-edited on the PC anyway, I should just use VR or DVD-RAM for things I'm not too worried about.

I'll be posting again in a few moments, to let you know how things went.

[magnu]

Things are looking much better now. I did a few short recordings, one at 2:49, another at 2:31, & another at 2:25.

I was curious where the resolution changeover from 720 to 352 would be, so I was wondering what it would be like at 2:49 (since I have a recording of 2hrs 46mins I'd like to put on disc).
At 2:49 the resolution is 352 (which is what I'd suspected), whereas the other two recordings are now at the full settings of 720.

I'm now doing a test to see what the resolution is at 2hrs 46mins, out of curiosity.

I do have more faith in this machine now, though, & won't bother taking it back straight away. I'll give it some more time.

[magnu]

I should mention, for those who may be confused with my last post, those numbers (2:25, 2:31, & 2:47) are FR settings, not recording lengths!

[kabanero]

magnu,

It will be a big mistake if you return this JVC and buy Panasonic E-WHATEVER.

And I think I noticed where resolution changes from 720 to 352: it is at FR155 (2:35). When I was going through FR modes starting from FR120 (2:00) it had four stars to the right. When I reached FR155 (2:35) it switched to three (as I remember) stars. I will double check this when I get home.

[magnu]

I was lately considering returning the JVC, & just keeping my current Panasonic, the HS2, as I might find there to be not much difference with the E55 (and I don't want to continually go through machine after machine).

I just checked FR mode, & it seems to tally with what you said. A lot of the shows I record are from the UK, & don't quite fit the maximum of 2hrs 23mins on the HS2 (Each is either 25 or 50 mins long, so it means using up more discs).
With the JVC I am able to fit all of these shows on perfectly. On the very, very odd occasion where I may want to squeeze a bit more on, I'll use DVD Rebuilder, or something like that. I don't think I'll need to in the end, though.

I guess the FR155 setting will probably be the same in VR mode as well?

[magnu]

Been testing the FR settings in both VR & Video Mode. VR appears to give you more time at the various settings, however, it goes out somewhere in between (as has been witnessed by many).

I can't quite remember where my settings went from 720 to 544 in VR Mode, but I suspect it must happen when I'm recording somewhere between 2:35 & 3hrs.
Vr gives you a bit extra recording space, butcan result in those unusual resolutions, which probably explains the statement in the manual, regarding the ability to play in machines that are able to read VR.

Anyway, I guess the ideal thing to do would be to figure out the optimum settings that can be used (with the more familiar resolutions) in both Video & VR Modes, & put the results in a handy spot when it comes to recording?

[CEF]

There is a misconception being re-enforced here that 544x576 and 480x480 are not standard. They are part of the VR spec. Why ? Because digital cable and satellite most often use these resolutions, and the DVD Forum thought it would be useful to capture those streams without having to go through another generation loss of MPEG-2 encode.

If you don't like it, format your disc with video book type.

The next-generation DVD format will finally hold transport streams, allowing all the other information, like interactive data, to be recorded as well.

[gshelley61]

Right... not standard to DVD-Video. Didn't mean to imply it was not part of the VR format standard. But does seem like an "odd" res to those of us used to working with DVD-Video primarily. Point taken.

[magnu]

In my own case, my original recordings are at 720x576, so I don't want my copies at the lower resolution. These other settings would be ok, I guess, for my S-VHS tapes, which I will get round to one day.

Will 544x576 or 480x480 play on any DVD Player?

[gshelley61]

Will 544x576 or 480x480 play on any DVD Player?

Don't know. Since they are VR recordings, probably not. Hardware DVD players mostly are set up to run DVD-Video. There are probably some multi-format players that can, though.

[lordsmurf]

I'm of the opinion that VR mode was for that-machine-only and watch-once-then-erase recording. For archived recording, use DVD-Video mode.

[ejai]

UNBELIEVABLE!!!! I've just received my JVC DR-M10SL this morning and I must say all the hype about the quality was all true. The 4 hour mode looks better than the Panasonic recorder's 2 hour mode. The dark areas I was concerned about are much smoother than I expected. What a difference a chip makes.

The color is rich and bright, I am still attempting to learn many of the features (some I'm sure I'll never use) but it is great to have them there. I am able to put 2 movies on one disk because the quality is so nice that it doesn't show noticable image degradation and block pixels.

Quality is what I look for and believe me as soon as I connected my satellite signal to the M10 there was a noticable difference. I'm not seeing the contour line effects in the video that I saw in the Panasonic recorder. The color blends smoothly and accurately.

Thanks Lordsmurf for the recommendation, this unit so far exceeds my expectations, It gets 2 thumbs up.

[ejai]

There is one thing I haven't figured out and that is the chapter points, if anyone knows how they work in this unit please point me in the right direction.

[Offroad]

There is one thing I haven't figured out and that is the chapter points, if anyone knows how they work in this unit please point me in the right direction.

Best I can tell, you have no chapter points until after the disc is finalized, then you have one every 5 minutes. This is a bit of a pain if you are just wanting to quickly skip through a recording to see how it came out as the fastest FF mode isn't as fast as I would like.

The only other way is the skip forward (30 sec), a big skip (5min)would have been helpful here.

If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

I agree with you on the quality. My All in Wonder 9700 Pro just sold on eBay, still do the editing, authoring and final burn on the PC but the capture quality is better than anything I did on the PC.

Cheers.

[ejai]

Thanks for the reply, so far that is my finding as well. The Panasonic does have a more friendly way of searching through a video than the JVC does. 30 secs intervals is much to slow especially if you want to get to a specific spot quickly.

Still the quality alone is worth the money.

[lordsmurf]

I think chapter marks requiring finalize is a part of the DVD-R/RW format. Not the best in my book, but I can let it skip in FF for a minute or two (quite fast).

[tag]

Best I can tell, you have no chapter points until after the disc is finalized, then you have one every 5 minutes. This is a bit of a pain if you are just wanting to quickly skip through a recording to see how it came out as the fastest FF mode isn't as fast as I would like.

I'm confused on this issue. Is there a reason one wouldn't just go ahead and finalize and then check to see how the recording came out? At that point you could simply use your 5-min chapter marks.

For example, if you loaded up a -R disk, recorded, and something got screwed up for whatever reason, it wouldn't matter anyway, would it? I mean, isn't the disk trash either way?

[ejai]

What I would like to do is add my own chapter points while the recording is being made. Really it isn't a major problem for me because I use my computer for editing and authoring. 8)

[tag]

...I use my computer for editing and authoring. 8)

Same. I'll probably never use any of the editing functions on my M10.

[ejai]

DVD-RAM uses only the VR format to record - that's why you are still getting that odd 544x576 resolution. DVD-RAM allows you a little more flexibility in editing and in using the disc like a mini DVR to time shift TV programs. The DVD-Video format also allows simple editing before finalizing. There is no finalizing with DVD-VR (that's one of the reasons most DVD players can't play VR format back).

Using DVD-RAM and/or the DVD-VR mode to record has been troublesome for many of us when trying to transfer the MPEG2 .VRO files to the PC for editing and authoring the final DVD. The VR format is apparently not as user friendly for that purpose as is standard DVD-Video (.VOB files).

Like I said, use DVD-RW's formatted to record in DVD-Video, finalize the disc, then do your MPEG2 editing and authoring of the final DVD-R on your computer. Also, note that the FR function works just fine with DVD-Video recording.

I also have ran into that non-standard dvd resolution problem using dvd-ram. I was wondering if there is a way to set the dvd-ram to video mode so that I could use it and get the correct resolutions?

[ejai]

Also when using DVD-RW you have to finalize the disk and this takes at least 13 mins. It would be nice to be able to bypass this option.

[lordsmurf]

Also when using DVD-RW you have to finalize the disk and this takes at least 13 mins. It would be nice to be able to bypass this option.

When you fill the disc, it only takes 2-3. If you use a previously-used DVD, quick format it on the JVC (cannot long it), and only use short bit of time, it must overwrite the unused portion with blank.

[ejai]

Thanks for the answer, I only did a 1 minute test video that's why it must of taken so long.

Still does this render the DVD-RAM useless?

[gshelley61]

I also have ran into that non-standard dvd resolution problem using dvd-ram. I was wondering if there is a way to set the dvd-ram to video mode so that I could use it and get the correct resolutions?

I think if the recording time is set at 2 hours 30 minutes or less, then the standard 720x480 (720x576 for PAL) resolution for VR using DVD-RAM is maintained.

Again, why bother with DVD-RAM anyway? Use -RW's in DVD-Video recording mode instead and save yourself some aggravation. They are just as re-usable as DVD-RAM (OK, not 100,000 times, but still...)

[ejai]

I miss being able to watch any part of a recording while the rest is still being recorded. dvd-ram seems to be the only format that will allow that feature.

If I have to live without it, I will. Like I said before quality means more to me ( I'm just use to those features.

[gshelley61]

I miss being able to watch any part of a recording while the rest is still being recorded. dvd-ram seems to be the only format that will allow that feature.

If I have to live without it, I will. Like I said before quality means more to me ( I'm just use to those features.

When the JVC with the HDD comes out, you could get one of those and sell your 10SL on eBay... then you will have the time chase features and the DVD-RW compatibility. What the hell - it's only money!