JVC DR-M10SL Anyone have one? Any Experience with?

[FulciLives]

I posted a MPEG-2 clip of my BLADE RUNNER capture on my website.

I added a LINK to the end of my post above (the one with the pictures).

If anyone is interested in seeing it ... just download it

The clip is about 1 minute long and is NTSC DVD compliant so feel free to burn it to a DVD-RW or DVD+RW to view on a TV.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

What is your source, I am sure its not a VHS tape!

Did you download the clip? If so I'm curious what you and others think of it in terms of quality.

The source for this capture is the Criterion CLV LaserDisc of BLADE RUNNER.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[kabanero]

Another great thing about this JVC DR-M10S is that its iLink (FireWire) input accepts signal from PC FireWire card. When I connected JVC’s iLink to my PC FireWire card, my Windows 2003 Server recognized it as AV tuner first, but couldn’t find the driver, so I skipped that part. Then it recognized it as JVC Digital recorder/player and installed drivers automatically. Then I opened Vegas 5, loaded into timeline some DV AVI files that I captured with Vegas from my Sony D8 camcorder. Then I used “Print to Tape” feature in Vegas to record from timeline directly to JVC via FireWire. JVC automatically started recording when it received signal from Vegas, and automatically stopped when it was done.

Isn’t that nice?

[FulciLives]

Your caps are excellent. Virtually no noise with a smooth, balanced picture. I've been using your screen grabs as a measuring stick for months! Mine look like they are sharper and reveal a little more detail, but there is still a bit of noise. It's not noticeable during playback, though.

Plus, the CAV laserdisc does have a better picture than the CLV version. More defined, no LD "smearing" and less noise. So I was able to use more sharpening with the Sima SCC without introducing excessive noise or other edge enhancement problems.

When I get home, I'll download that .mpg you posted. I'll run it on my Bravo D1 DVI player to the Samsung DLP and let you know how it looks...

Thanks again for all of your help!

I admit that your clips are a bit sharper though they do seem to have slightly more noise than mine although I don't think it is a big deal (would have to see a clip in action though).

I think my clips aren't as sharp because of the fact that I capture using PICVideo MJPEG instead of HuffyUV. I can't use HuffyUV reliably with long captures due to my computer being just a tad too slow and I'm always "tight" on HDD space. Also I use the Convolution3D filter (AviSynth filter) which does an incredible job at reducing "video noise" but does "smooth" out the picture a bit. It might also be a limitation of my BT capture card. I'm using "standard" drivers that give a great balance of image quality (in terms of contrast/brightness and saturation) but these drivers give no control over sharpness.

I might play around with using a sharpness filter after the Convolution3D filter to see if that "helps" any. I don't have an external "box of tricks" like the SIMA device you have :P

Just remember that if you author and burn the clip to a DVD-RW or DVD+RW that many DVD players won't play a DVD disc unless it is at least 1GB in size so you may have to "fill up" the disc with other stuff.

In short though I think the JVC is amazing and I just wanted to post my pics and clip to compare standalone vs computer capture methods.

One thing I will be curious to hear about is how well you can edit your JVC "captures" if you re-author on a computer. I know TMPGEnc DVD Author can edit MPEG without re-encoding as can MPEG-VCR. However this can sometimes introduce A/V sync problems. At least this has happened in the past with some MPEG editing of certain files created by certain devices. Hopefully the JVC files won't have this problem.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Wish I had the money to get one of these JVC puppies :P

[kabanero]

FulciLives,

When I ripped video from DVD-RW recorded in Video mode on JVC with DVDDecrypter to PC in IFO mode I checked the information text file. Audio has delay of 64 milliseconds (I don't know if it is good or bad, may be you can explain what are acceptable numbers for audio delay).
My LinteON 5001 has audio delay of -4 milliseconds when capturing via FireWire, and 5 milliseconds audio delay via S-video or composite.
After I edited that VOB file from JVC with Womble MPEG Video Wizard (just cut and join without any reencoding) I didn't see any A-V sync problem.

[FulciLives]

FulciLives,

When I ripped video from DVD-RW recorded in Video mode on JVC with DVDDecrypter to PC in IFO mode I checked the information text file. Audio has delay of 64 milliseconds (I don't know if it is good or bad, may be you can explain what are acceptable numbers for audio delay).
My LinteON 5001 has audio delay of -4 milliseconds when capturing via FireWire, and 5 milliseconds audio delay via S-video or composite.
After I edited that VOB file from JVC with Womble MPEG Video Wizard (just cut and join without any reencoding) I didn't see any A-V sync problem.

I wouldn't worry about the audio delay. Unless it is more than +- 100ms you would never be able to tell. Also if you import the VOB files or if you use DVD-RAM and import directly etc. then it is really a non-issue.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

Womble MPEG-VCR 7/2003 release upchucks the JVC files (refuses to save).
But the MPEG-VCR 4/2004 release (newest one) is fine.
Upgrades are free it seems (my serial worked), so no problems.

I installed them side-by-side because now 4/2004 won't work very fast with ATI AIW files. WTF?

Anyway, that's what I've done. Works okay.

No sync issues.

[ejai]

After I edited that VOB file from JVC with Womble MPEG Video Wizard (just cut and join without any reencoding) I didn't see any A-V sync problem.

I been using Womble MPEG Video Wizard for months now and it's great, I've done lots of editing with no audio sync problems. Even blending effects such as dissolves, wipes and 3D transitions are done without a blemish.

[tag]

Another great thing about this JVC DR-M10S is that its iLink (FireWire) input accepts signal from PC FireWire card. When I connected JVC’s iLink to my PC FireWire card, my Windows 2003 Server....................Isn’t that nice?

It's more than nice! Uh, that is, provided the same thing will work with various iterations of XP or W2K. No reason it shouldn't, is there?

[gshelley61]

I uploaded a short approximately 1 minute MPEG-2 clip of my BLADE RUNNER capture. It is an MPEG-2 file with muxed AC-3 audio. It is DVD compliant so I suggest anyone downloading it should author it and burn it to a DVD-RW or DVD+RW so you can play it back on a DVD player hooked up to a TV.

Here is a link to the file:

http://www.cryptofhorrors.com/bladerunner/brclip.mpg

RIGHT CLICK on this link using your mouse and then select SAVE TARGET AS... to save it to your computer.

The file is 58.5MB and was cut out of a longer MPEG file using MPEG-VCR

OK- so I've had a chance to download the clip, burn it to DVD-RW and watch it on the widescreen DLP... it looks very good. Like I expected, no video noise. Smooth like a baby's bottom. The picture is soft, but detailed enough. The conversion to 16:9 is very well done, too. No jaggies or resizing artifacts that I can see, and that's on a fixed pixel display with a DVD player upscaling to 720p...

I also watched it on my 13" project monitor (a cheap Orion TV) and it looks really good on that. CRT's have their advantages, for sure.

So, now the comparison with my JVC capture...

Because my cap is 4:3 letterbox, I have to zoom my DVD player to fill the width of widescreen DLP. The Bravo does an excellent job of both upscaling and zooming, so my clip doesn't suffer from any resizing artifacts, either. I set up my capture a bit darker than Fulci's, too. The blacks are quite dark... I attempted to make the letterbox bars as close to black as possible. My clip does have some visible noise, but is quite a bit sharper and more detailed, at least on the big screen. That's the trade-off, I think. All the computer captures that I filtered most of the noise out of looked soft to me when they were encoded to MPEG2. I guess that's why this JVC is impressive... it does a reasonably good job of reducing noise, but the picture remains pretty sharp.

[lordsmurf]

I think the contrast/color control is the most impressive, as no other does it, and then the noise removal is next, as several recorders do it.

[xiaNaix]

I been using Womble MPEG Video Wizard for months now and it's great, I've done lots of editing with no audio sync problems. Even blending effects such as dissolves, wipes and 3D transitions are done without a blemish.

Thanks for the tip on that proggie. Looks very interesting. I'll definately be checking it out for use with my JVC caps!

[lordsmurf]

I never liked MPEG Video Wizard because the button layouts are not as easy for cutting out commercials. But it does do the actual "editing" better. I used MPEG-VCR to cut out commercials, the Video Wizard (demo version) to add some effects. Was nice, just what I needed.

[gshelley61]

I think the contrast/color control is the most impressive, as no other does it, and then the noise removal is next, as several recorders do it.

lordsmurf, are you saying the JVC has a user-adjustable contrast/color control on the input side? Or is it an automatic function like the DNR? Clue me in because I don't remember seeing that feature it in the instructions or specs...

[magnu]

I'm in Australia, & have only just picked this recorder up. One unusual problem I have discovered is that it will play Region 4 (Australia), & Region 1 (USA), but not Region 2 (UK)?

I was first curious as to the region settings, & wondered if it was able to play all of them (most machines in Australia are supposedly set to Region Free), but if it had been locked ot Region 4, then why is it playing Region 1 as well?

Is there a way of changing Region settings?

[FulciLives]

I'm in Australia, & have only just picked this recorder up. One unusual problem I have discovered is that it will play Region 4 (Australia), & Region 1 (USA), but not Region 2 (UK)?

I was first curious as to the region settings, & wondered if it was able to play all of them (most machines in Australia are supposedly set to Region Free), but if it had been locked ot Region 4, then why is it playing Region 1 as well?

Is there a way of changing Region settings?

It could be that your "region one" DVD from the USA is really "region free". Remember now that not all DVD video discs have region code information. It is possible to buy a DVD from any of the regions that is region free.

For instance in the USA the JVC DVD players are set to region one but will play a PAL DVD from the UK if that PAL DVD is region free but if that DVD is region two then it won't play it.

So I suspect that the DVD you think is a region one DVD is really region free and that that is why it worked.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[magnu]

I've been thinking that it may actually be Region Free, even though it does say Region 1 on the disc packaging (I know I've came across similar situations with DVDs before).

I'll give it a run through DVD Decripter, & see what it tells me.

One quick test I have done so far is editing a section of video after recording. It was only brief, & I hadn't fully finished reading the manual, but I dont think it seems to edit as smoothly as the Panasonic HS2, which I also have.
I only tried it with a DVD-RW disc that was handy. It may work better with DVD-RAM?

It's not a major issue, as I usually transfer my recordings to the PC, & do a bit of re-eding programmes, such as inserting scenes from cliffhangers in serials to the start of the next episode, as they usually put a subtitle watermark at the start.

[magnu]

Checked DVD Decripter, & it says the disc is All Regions. However, put the other disc in, & got the same response.

One thing I discovered, though, is that I'd loaned this other disc to my brother, & haven't watched it since I got it back. There is a small crack on it, on the centre hole of the disc. I suspect my machine won't play this particular disc for that reason, & not the Region problem (my brother's wife said she had problems getting the disc to play, but it was perfect before they borrowed it. There's a moral there!).

I tried another disc, which I'd recorded myself, but had problems with. I got the same Region Code message (there was no Region Code on it), so it may actually work. Won't know for a few hours though, as I'm doing a test recording using the FR(JUST) setting.

[lordsmurf]

I think the contrast/color control is the most impressive, as no other does it, and then the noise removal is next, as several recorders do it.

lordsmurf, are you saying the JVC has a user-adjustable contrast/color control on the input side? Or is it an automatic function like the DNR? Clue me in because I don't remember seeing that feature it in the instructions or specs...

Most recorders lose color and/or contrast. This one seems to fight to keep it. While recording, it looks pumped-up (oversaturated) but the final DVD is perfect to the source. All automatic.

[xiaNaix]

Most recorders lose color and/or contrast. This one seems to fight to keep it. While recording, it looks pumped-up (oversaturated) but the final DVD is perfect to the source. All automatic.

Agreed. I did some transfers from old Beta tapes the other day and it really cleaned up the color bleeding while retaining the sharpness. Very nice indeed!

[gshelley61]

lordsmurf,

Thanks for the clarification. I'm extremely happy with the JVC so far and am very glad I took your informed recommendation to get it!

[tag]

Finally! I should get this thing sometime next week from eCOST.com (decent price, I believe, at $299 plus $6.95 S&H).

I just got sick and tired of waiting for these things to show up anywhere in some B&M joint.

[gshelley61]

Finally! I should get this thing sometime next week from eCOST.com (decent price, I believe, at $299 plus $6.95 S&H).

I just got sick and tired of waiting for these things to show up anywhere in some B&M joint.

That's where I got mine... took only 4 days to get it, too! $306 shipped

[tag]

That's where I got mine... took only 4 days to get it, too! $306 shipped

I think that's a good deal and can't imagine that these units would be cheaper anywhere else. I was just waiting to see if Costco would wind up with a few since their return policy is the most liberal of any reseller I've seen. Not that I intend to return the machine, just for the peace of mind I'd have knowing I could take the unit back if it went down (as opposed to dealing with repairs under warranty or otherwise).

[magnu]

I did a test recording last night on a programme which runs for 2hrs25min. I tried using timer record to do so, & added an extra 2mins, using FR(JUST).
The final recording said the resolution was 544x576 (I'm on the PAL system), which seems a bizarre number, which is about half way between MPEG1 & 2.

I wasn't happy with this result, so I did more tests, this time ignoring the Timer & FR(JUST). I set Rec Mode to 2:27, & got 720x576. I did the same with SP & XP, with the same results.
Then, out of curiosity, I tried FR at 2:55. This time I got the figure of 544x576 again.

I don't know if I've figured out how to use Timer with FR(JUST) properly, so will need to do more reading on that subject.

I should also point out that this test was on DVD-RW. It may be different on DVD-RAM?

[gshelley61]

lordsmurf noted that the longer recording times in DVD-VR mode wound up being a non-standard 480x480 with the NTSC version of this machine. Could you be in VR mode when you set up the timer record function?

[CEF]

New DVD recorder with LSI encoder chip:

http://www.govideo.com/Index.asp?GV=R6640

[xiaNaix]

New DVD recorder with LSI encoder chip:

http://www.govideo.com/Index.asp?GV=R6640

Interesting. Uses the +R & +RW format. Nothing in the manual about FR mode, so probably doesn't have it.

[lordsmurf]

I hate Go.Video, they represent a company that does video badly, but advertises themselves as the best way to do things (anybody remember those poor quality dual-decks?). I refuse to support a company that so ruthlessly sells trash and calls it good. While this recorder could very well prove good, I already have my doubts because of the poor-quality name that stands behind it. I'd pass on it simply because that company sucks.

[tag]

(anybody remember those poor quality dual-decks?)

Yes, in fact. The one I bought, many moons ago, is probably in the mid to lower half of some landfill project in my area. I paid a lot for it and the thing didn't even last a year. One huge POS it was.

Anyway, with the introduction of this new machine, I am even more confused about their product line. I mean, why does this company need to have FOUR (fairly) low end DVD+R/RW recorders on the market, none with a HDD and three with firewire????

[magnu]

I have been in VR mode with the recording. Don't really know enough about it as yet, but I'm sure I'll know lots more by the end of the day!

One thing I did notice, though, is that the DVD-RW I Formatted on the JVC before recording was not actually fully-formatted. This could be why some recordings that should have been full resolution were not exactly (since my first test, using the timer, etc., was a full recording, while the 2nd test, using a higher FR setting, was only a segment).

I've now fully-formatted the DVD-RW with Nero, & I'm timer recording again, using the same settings as before, as well as FR(JUST).

I suspect it will work out better this time.