TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress Released

[andie41]

Also, 3.0 seem to add brightness to the picture for some reason. Not sure if it's the noise reduction or not. But the blacks aren't as deep as they used to be, as if someone pumped the brightness up on the TV or something.

As per my earlier post: "it seems to compress the luma - 16-235 becomes 30-218."

I wasn't using any filters for my test.

[accountwiz]

pailw,

My earlier comments are all based on their XDVD setting. It is ideeed excellent and I can get 2 movies on a dvd-r with outstanding quality.

[SatStorm]

@ thor300
We never gonna switch to that non friendly non GUI ungly thing called avisynth, and that -I'm not even a standalone application - CCE encoder of any flavor

We gonna switch to mainconcept which ******* rules!

[Sefy]

thor30, sorry to disappoint you, but i'm one of those who will never switch to AviSynth (which is a Flintstones garbage disposal) with it's unease of usage and CCE which gives no control over the encoding, resizing or anything, it's useless on it's own, and I have no intention of using two programs to do the job of one.

If i'd switch to anything, it would be to MainConcept. when i'll want to be one of those masochistic people, i'll "learn" a scripting language to do an encode! till then, i'm sticking to encoding and not a scripting language which is useless to me, and from what i've seen, to a WHOLE lot of other people.

[LSchafroth]

We gonna switch to mainconcept which ******* rules!

hehe.. Do you have any good templates for MC? I have 1.4.2 and when I compare the TMPGEnc normal Half D1 encodes, the MC ones have more macro blocks whereas the TMPGEnc has none. I love MC's speed. Is there a way to tweak MC to look as good as TMPGEnc?

I don't want to ever go the route TMPGEnc 3 is using for licensing and such.

LS

[thor300]

Mainconcept is probably good enough, but i havent been able to make any high quality mpeg2 with it. Even tmpgenc is better. MC is good enough i guess, fast too. A bit slower than CCE for CBR. Maybe next version of MC will have better quality, right now the Price/quality is no way in favor for MC.
Btw, one of the important advantages with AviSynth IS control over the encoding process, it will do what it is told in the order you write it. For a comparision, do you know the exact order of how tmpgenc applies its filters? Its a mess, have to make a guess and then try and try again. How do you crop once before and once after resize and then replace the cropped area with black borders in tmpgenc? AviSynth is so much better if you want control of the process.
So SatStorm, who won? (Greece-Spain)

[Sefy]

@thor300, I keep hearing this about the cost of MC compared to CCE and I really don't see how you think it's not to MC's favour, considering only the BASIC version of CCE costs near 60$ (MC costs 120$) and has absolutly NO features! as far as I recall, there are no included templates either! and since it requires a third party application to actually do something, i'd say you do not get what you pay for.

Now the SP Version, please remind me how many 0 come after the 1 in the price ?
and even that requires you to have a 3rd party application, mainly AviSynth which is completly and totaly unfriendly, so that makes two programs which are not friendly. Gee, I wonder what a user will choose between a 3000$ and a text based garbage disposal to a 120$ which accepts just about anything! oh yeah, and can ALSO use that garbage disposal

I Won't even go into the cost of the PRO version! and lastly, I don't know what you have against the quality of MC's MPEG2, but from what I saw it's not only faster then TMPGEnc (nearly 3 times faster from my encoding!) it has extremly good quality! and I can bring here a few quotes from friends who use it. So I think you are over reacting to the quality level.

[seventhseal]

As per my earlier post: "it seems to compress the luma - 16-235 becomes 30-218."

What can be done about this? It sucks.

[SatStorm]

Greece - Spain 1 - 1! We ******* rule!!!!

Cropping at TMPGenc is the easiest thing: Settings - Clip frame. Also, you need to set "Video Arrange Method: Full Screen (keep aspect ratio 2)
I do it always and actually, that helps a lot the encoding and centers at the same time the picture!

And when we, the TMPGenc users, have to use filters, we use them during frameserving with virtualdub!
And we virtualdub we also have preview! Realtime preview! The GUI way!
See the light and join us to the GUI forces

@ LSchafroth
Mainconcept is a strange program. It works excellent for us, the PAL users. The NTSC users hate it! Especially that thing called mainconcept PVR, doesn't even support NTSC! But works excellent with us, the PAL users, when and if we manage to make it work (tons of bugs...)
That's an enough reason to switch to it, when (and if) TMPGenc 2.5 turn SO outdated (something far - far - far away, it's more than OK now for my needs and I don't change easy software if works best for me).

The greatest advantage of mainconcept is the built in capture utility it has. That is what makes the difference : I can capture realtime mpeg 2 files using any capture card with excellent results and no framedrops (because of the internal engine), even with a duron 1200! 768 x 576 input, 352 x 576 output!!! The picture is block free and I can't understand how this is possible, because with the same settings an offline encoding end up worst the realtime mpeg 2 captures!
This program has a great future.

[andie41]

As to what can be done Re compressing luma and raising black levels, you could use a filter to expand the luma to 0-255 and then when it encodes and shrinks the luma range, it will be close to the 16-235 range. Seems unecessary to me and I would expect that render times would be increased somewhat, and I wonder if the process of expanding and then shrinking will cause degrading of the video. Version 2.5 has the "output YUV data as basic YCbCr ...", if needed, but this option does seem to be available in the new version.

edit: but this option does NOTseem to be available in the new version.

[thor300]

Congrats to Greece, very good.
SatStorm, CCE users also frameserve with Virtualdub, no need to go for intermediate uncompressed avi files. I know many said this to be a problem for CCE, that it will eat up the faster encoding time, but its really not the case. The problem is that the VDR file will need to be loaded through avisynth, as CCE doesnt recognize VDR files, but thats done in 1 line (AviSource), not really a problem is it? AND IF that is a problem, i found this method to work also: In virtualdubs frameserver, save the VDR file with AVI extension instead and drop it straight into CCE! No need for avisynth at all! The resize of virtualdub can give duplicated lines (at bottom i think, or top) so again AviSynth is better.
I do know how to crop and add border in tmpgenc, i used to use it very frequently when i was getting started with video conversions, my question was how to determine in which order it does it, and how to do it both prior to and after resize, as an example. I feel AviSynth give much better control of this things, its no doubt what is done when. I can for example set the framerate conversion to be done prior to resize (to make it faster), or after resize. tmpgenc dont give you these choises afaik, so then one would have to use virtualdub or avisynth anyway.

Sefy, I have nothing against MC. You know i dont like tmpgenc, but i admit it seem to give better mpeg2 quality than MC even if i wish it didnt . I only evaluated MC a bit, have no plan of buying it. I believe you when you say you have good results with MC, and i also believe the posts i see about people not so satisfied with MC. I prefer quality testing on the standalone/TV, i find it easier to discover artifacting then, on the PC screen its harder too spot, especially for interlaced DV.

By the way, im not into capturing, only DV through FireWire. CCE is by far the easiest encoder to convert DV to DVD.

EDIT: Just tried the VDR file saved as AVI in trial CCE SP 2.66 something, it didnt work (not a valid AVI file) but it DOES work in CCE 2.5. Newer versions will need to use the AviSynth workaround then.

[LSchafroth]

@ LSchafroth
Mainconcept is a strange program. It works excellent for us, the PAL users. The NTSC users hate it! Especially that thing called mainconcept PVR, doesn't even support NTSC! But works excellent with us, the PAL users, when and if we manage to make it work (tons of bugs...)
That's an enough reason to switch to it, when (and if) TMPGenc 2.5 turn SO outdated (something far - far - far away, it's more than OK now for my needs and I don't change easy software if works best for me).

I would love to use Virtuldub for my filters, but as you can see it corrupts my videos. Hence my VD filter problems thread.

The greatest advantage of mainconcept is the built in capture utility it has. That is what makes the difference : I can capture realtime mpeg 2 files using any capture card with excellent results and no framedrops (because of the internal engine), even with a duron 1200! 768 x 576 input, 352 x 576 output!!! The picture is block free and I can't understand how this is possible, because with the same settings an offline encoding end up worst the realtime mpeg 2 captures!
This program has a great future.

I would like to use MC for my captures but it errors out when trying to use it. It sees my capture device but fails once I hit the capture button. (pinnacle PCTV) That's why I have to use IuVCR to capture since VD won;t do it either.

LS

PS I like MC. I would use it fro everything if I can get the MPG2 a little cleaner.

[SatStorm]

avisynth users never got it right:

When you are 30 something, PCs is something came later to your life and you adapt to them, school and anything school related are a distant memory and you working hard to whatever you can imagine, not related at all with this thing called "video proccessing", then avisynth is not for you.

The mainstream videohelp.com user, is like the one I described, basicly because most older members of this community here, was on an older age when this community first appeared.
Later, those who stick around, did that because that attitude was compatible with them.
You probably have realise, that we are not mostly young kids here: We are young at hart mostly... You will be amazed when you realise that many members here are 50 and 60 years old!!!!

Avisynth designed with students and nerds in mind.
Virtualdub designed with advance users and average enthusiasts in mind

Huge difference. We are on the second team here. Those of the first team are elsewhere (mostly doom9)

[Sefy]

@thor300, are you sure about VDR and CCE ? cause for my guides i've always used the CCESP v2.67 and i've had no trouble making it accept the VDR file, even as a VDR. sure it doesn't recognise it, but I just type *.vdr in the file name, and then I load up my file.

Oh and by the way, everything I make, I never watch on the PC, or I would not have made it at all, what's the point ? i'll give you an example, recently I encoded the Star Trek Animated TV show (22 episodes) and used my SxVCD variation to encode (VCD resolution but using MPEG2 VBR) with both MC and with TMPGEnc.

Now usually or more like mostly, I use TMPGEnc for everything, but it is very slow in MPEG2 encoding (but I like having Templates!) and i've had to set the encoding variation manualy in MC (god darnit!) but it not only encoded faster then real time, it also had better quality! (on the TV! I don't watch on the PC!)

I may not have hawk eyes, but I do believe quality is in the eye of the beholder, what looks quality to you (SVCD for example) will look of no signifigance to me and what I may look as quality (VCD) will look like yesterday's trash to you

Lastly, people having problem with MC is exactly the same as those who have issues with TMPGEnc and CCE and every other piece of software, so it's not really saying MC is bad, it's saying it's no good for everyone, or we wouldn't need all these programs around now would we ?

[thor300]

You are right Sefy, the never CCE trials i have loads VDR files directly. There was some post someone had problems loading VDR into CCE, i had experienced the same problem, so i posted the AviSynth workaround. I did some testing now and found it to be the bug that affects only AMD cpus with older versions of CCE. You probably heard of that one, where CCE will crash because it expects audio. Untill now i thought that bug only concerned frameserving with avisynth, but i see now that it affects other frameservers as well.

It works on Intels, and it works when frameserving with audio. I keep audio unchecked on all my CCE templat3es, that does not make a difference for this bug. The workaround in AviSynth is to use a ResampleAudio function, that will fool older CCE to think there is audio.

Conclusion would be that VDR opens perfectly in newer CCE, and only with Intel CPU on older CCE where there is no audio in the frameserved video.

The Workaround i use for AMD PCs with CCE 2.5, at the end of the script:
ResampleAudio(44100)
function ResampleAudio(clip v1, int rate) {
v2 = Blankclip()
v1 = AudioDub(v1,v2)
return v1 }
...Doesnt matter if you use 44100 or 48000 in the function call, the audio will not be used anyway. After all, there is no real audio there

[adam]

Now usually or more like mostly, I use TMPGEnc for everything, but it is very slow in MPEG2 encoding (but I like having Templates!)

Why not use CCE? It has templates.

[paulw]

For the price of TMPGE and some of the others you could buy Procder Express. It's the best encoder I've seen. Down side No AC3..

[thor300]

@Adam, i guess these boys want templates with resize and everything readily set up, more like fastfood instant food that will spice and slice itself and serve itself on a plate
Anyway, im going for vacation.

[pchan]

Folks,
Save the $$$ on CCE and use it upgrade the PC to Intel P4 3.2 or 3.4Ghz and a SATA drive. TMPGEnc should be fast enough.

[SatStorm]

Yeah Yeah, typical....

The avisynth users find us, the normal people, lazy or whatever, just to explain why we don't join them...

You know, when you are crazy, you don't believe the world that point you that you are crazy. For you all the others are crazy.

Same story here: When you are on avisynth, you don't care / believe or whatever what the others say. For you they are just lazy...

This approach is bullshit and an insult at the same time for the countless bigger majority of this scene...

You don't get it, you never gonna get it...


BTW: Procoder is not as good as Mainconcept for PAL users (IMHO) and AC3 is not important or even neccessary for us in Region 2.
The way I see it, it goes like this:

DVD backups: Avisynth / CCE
PAL captures / DV transfers / convertions: Mainconcept
NTSC captures / DV transfers / convertions: Procoder
Playing with this hobby: TMPGenc (2.5, Express, 0.12, whatever...)

In a way I'm pleased with that result: The major forum problems appear when you combine at the same post Americans with non Americans or NTSC with PAL. That way, and because it is more than certain that the PAL users gonna switch to Mainconcept and the NTSC users gonna switch to Procoder (and some few of them at CCE with avisynth - after all in USA you are educated longer time than us in Europe for example - different education system), we gonna seperate ways and interests, so less problems gonna appear in the future and less flame wars!
Exactly what a healthy promising community like this one here needs...


BTW: I don't like TMPGenc 3.0 either: The most I test it the more I realise that it is simply ver 2.5 re packed. Some minnor stuff fixed, so a better SSE / SSE2 support and that explains the better speed. Also it seems that lower bitrates create a better, more creasp, picture on 2 Pass VBR. But since I switch to CQ mode fulltime now, with minimum always more tha 2000kb/s, I don't have to deal with this problem anymore. It is a help for the SVCD/CVD funs through....

[Sefy]

@thor300, I don't know what bug of CCE crashing on AMD you talking about, but I never had it crash with a VDR on any version i've put in the guide, and I always had an AMD CPU and i always did frameserving. I Also don't always frameserve the audio, but then again, I pretty much don't like CCE, one of the main reasons I like TMPGEnc / MainConcept is the fact they accept two sources (Video/Audio) and not just a single file (CCE/ProCoder/LSX..) so it's once again a useless annoying encode to my taste.

Oh and we don't want fast food, we want food! not a live animal that you'd have to catch, kill, slaughter, then butcher it up, cook it and then eat it! So if you want to live in the dark ages, that's your choice, some of us want to stay in the 20th and 21st centuries :P

@adam, CCE is a garbage disposal for me, uncomfortable, unfriendly, and it is garbage by itself, requires a 3rd party application, doesn't accept D2V files and has only a single file input and lets face it, if it couldn't use VDR, I would not even bother calling it an encoder, more of a plugin instead
Oh and There are no pre-made Templates which you can just alter, only the old version came with it, none of the new ones do.


@paulw, I disagree regarding ProCoder Express, I found it to be a VERY slow encoder! it took it 9 hours to encode to VCD and that's Video Only, cause it doesn't accept D2V or VDR files!

@pchan, why would I want to buy a garbage Intel CPU ? costs a fortune! it is an expensive CPU which offers absolutly no advantage over AMD, and in heavens name why do I need an S-ATA ?? what is that gonna help me ? it won't offer a single benefit, except the neusance of requiring a driver just for installing my OS!