Capturing of Satellite/Cable streams

[yamato72]

All DirecTV content is 480X480.

For the fastest transfer to DVD-R, take your muxed output from TyTool and load it into DVD-Lab. Choose yes when prompted to demux. Let it do its thing and quit the program. If you previously cut out commercials with TyTool, load up the video stream in Restream to fix any header weirdness. Load the file output by restream and the original audio file back into DVD-Lab and author. Done!

I can fit 3 90-minute movies on one DVD-R that plays on my Toshiba with no probs. I've been doing Twilight Zone, Jonny Quest, and Good Eats compilations plus five or six discs of movies this way for quite a while and have been very pleased.

How much time does it take? A 90 minute movie runs about 1200-1800MB and I can pull from my DirecTivo at 1MB/sec so figure 20 mins on average. 5 minutes at the most in TyTool to make a key frame file, edit out the junk, and output the finished file. 10 minutes for DVD-Lab to demux, 2 minutes for restream, 10 minutes to author and another 10 to burn. That's less than an hour of work (15 at most in front of your computer) for a 90-minute show. How can you beat that? As for PQ, as long as you are OK with DirecTV's PQ (I'm borderline, it sure has gone downhill in the past 18 months), you'll be OK with a DVD copy.

[tgc225]

Thanks so much to both of you! That was extremely helpful info, since I haven't had anyone post a basic outline of what needs to be done to get that working I think the above two posts hould be stickied in fact

Anyway, now that I have this outline, I think it's going to be a lot easier for me to read the DealDatabase forum and understand what they're talking about when they're discussing an individual step

[lordsmurf]

All DirecTV content is 480X480..

FYI, I've never been convined of this. This res is only shown on TIVO/PVR units. The streams themselves range from transponder to transponder, in terms of res, bitrate, etc. They are not all the same. Something else is happening between the satellite and the TIVO file.

[yamato72]

Sleeper ISO is awesome -I've done both "manual" hacks -just swapping out the kernel and the monte method and to have the hacking process automated is fantastic. This is from a guy who has been getting pestered for 100 days now to plug his Tivo back in so it can make its phone call -I've been resisting since I'll lose my precious hacks.

[yamato72]

Something else is happening between the satellite and the TIVO file.

I've heard it rumored that DirecTV units resize to 720X480 for playback but I don't see what the point would be. As for the Tivo file being different from the satellite stream, it doesn't seem like the boxes have the horsepower to be re-encoding on the fly. They're slow enough as it is. Do you have any helpful links? I thought they'd put that question to rest on dealdb.com long ago....

[lordsmurf]

I've been too busy with other things to thoroughly research it like I want. I also just dumped DirecTV for about 6 months. When I get them again, I'll be grabbing a DVR and I'll research it then.

As far as power to alter the signal, it really woud not need much anyway.

All video plays back at full NTSC (misnomer that it has a number like 720x380), but I don't think the receiver itself does anything but extract the info and send to video. It plays whatever it is fed at 525 scanlines across at 60hz power.

Even with naked eyes, PPV in the 100s and then say BOOM on 297 are not at all the same in terms of clarity (resolution) and being noise-free (bitrate allocation).

As far as guesses, I don't really want to throw any out. I just say "I think we're missing something" and that'll have to suffice for now until I can devote more time to it. I would say to not convince yourself that this is the resolution of DSS itself, just the resolution of what you can grab direct from it using PVR/Tivo units. That would be a safer ascertion.

[pyrohydra]

lordsmurf:

I'm curious about the resolution thing too. It is unfortunate that we don't have access to equipment that can capture DSS besides the Directivo. you mentioned awhile back that you have (or had) inside sources at DirecTv. Perhaps they might know what's going on in regards to the Tivo?

[indolikaa]

lordsmurf:

I'm curious about the resolution thing too. It is unfortunate that we don't have access to equipment that can capture DSS besides the Directivo. you mentioned awhile back that you have (or had) inside sources at DirecTv. Perhaps they might know what's going on in regards to the Tivo?

I still do.

As my reference points...
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=183688
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=190360

I'll offer my standard disclaimer when it comes to DirecTV and DiSH Network payloads: I just watch 'em, I don't analyze 'em.


As of a couple of weeks ago, I am still being quoted the same resolutions that were posted in 183688, with the exception of LA/NY feeds at the 101° orbital slot, which are 412x480. What has changed lately is 1) DirecTV is using a new generation of MPEG encoders which has allowed them to 2) and I quote, "lower their bitrate overhead for each channel, at the cost of a slight reduction in overall visual quality until additional bandwidth becomes available."

Slight reduction?

[lordsmurf]

Slight reduction? My ass. Those must be the same people that think DIVX downloads are "DVD quality".

Amoeba macroblocks are one of those things that just REALLY pisses me off. Also, recent changes have added MORE NOISE into the overscan, sometimes dropping into the visual area. Hughes receivers are the worst about it.

[yamato72]

How I miss those heady days in 1998 when I first got DirecTV. Yeah, you'd see artifacts on some of the basic channels but the premiums, PPV, and high-profile channels like CNN were stellar. I went without DirecTV for 18 months and when I started back up last summer... ugh what a disappointment. Even the PPVs had noticeable mosquito noise. Everyone on tivocommunity.com is praying for a big increase in PQ now that DirecTV 7S has launched.... I can only hope.

[pyrohydra]

How I miss those heady days in 1998 when I first got DirecTV. Yeah, you'd see artifacts on some of the basic channels but the premiums, PPV, and high-profile channels like CNN were stellar. I went without DirecTV for 18 months and when I started back up last summer... ugh what a disappointment. Even the PPVs had noticeable mosquito noise. Everyone on tivocommunity.com is praying for a big increase in PQ now that DirecTV 7S has launched.... I can only hope.

Heh, well if that happens, the one downside to this is that I won't be able to fit as much onto a single disc . Right now it's not unusual for me to fit 6 hours on one DVD-R.

[tgc225]

"lower their bitrate overhead for each channel, at the cost of a slight reduction in overall visual quality until additional bandwidth becomes available."

Slight reduction?

What does "until additional bandwidth becomes available." exactly? Does that mean they plan to improve the quality in the future?

[satviewer2000]

I have the Canadian version of Dishnet's sat PVR. The only way to get the data off this into your computer digitally is to take the HD out of the case, hook it up to your PC, and use special programs to convert the data into an MPEG2 stream. There are some who have added swap ports to their PVR so that this can be done easier. To me, it seems like it's more trouble than it's worth.

If you want digital quality, then it's probably easier to get a DVB card, which can then download data directly into your HD on your computer. You can then do whatever you want with the saved data.

As far as I'm aware, no current sat PVR has networking capability nor even a LAN port. Also, as the firmware does not support networking, it would be an immense task to write your own firmware, even if you somehow managed to install a network port in the PVR.

In Canada, the Tivo is not yet available. Does the Tivo have a built-in LAN port and firmware to support networking?

[indolikaa]

"lower their bitrate overhead for each channel, at the cost of a slight reduction in overall visual quality until additional bandwidth becomes available."

Slight reduction?

What does "until additional bandwidth becomes available." exactly? Does that mean they plan to improve the quality in the future?

Hard to say. They're in a tizzy trying to cover as many local markets as they can. More DMAs is more important than improving picture quality, at least so far as I've seen...

[yamato72]

What does "until additional bandwidth becomes available." exactly? Does that mean they plan to improve the quality in the future?

They just launched a new satellite, DirecTV 7S, 2 weeks ago. The pundits are speculating that the added capacity will allow DirecTV to give us back some of our bandwidth across the board and increase PQ. They're going to be juggling the satellites a bit and I think moving an older one to a different orbital slot. They're also adding a ton (40 I think) of new local markets.

Anyway, PQ "issues" with DirecTV is all hush-hush. If you complain to DirecTV about PQ they'll tell you to unplug your receiver. Their reps either don't know, don't care, or have been told to play dumb when customers complain about PQ problems so it's anyone's guess as to whether it will noticeably improve across the board once the new satellite is opertional.

I just peeked over at tivocommunity.com but didn't see a really good link for you that deals with the specifics of the new "bird." Might want to do a search.

[tgc225]

Thanks! I have two more questions:

1) Is it possible to get captions along with the video, and then watch the DVD back with captions like some normal DVDs?

2) Are there any screenshots online that show the quality you can expect with a direct stream capture? Or even better, are there any sites that compare various sources to each other? (Analogue cable, digital cable, satellite, etc)

[zanos]

I got directv in 2001 and even I have noticed a downgrade in quality from then to now, even coming in so late in the game. You guys should see the PQ on UK satellite. Tv shows look like dvd.

Btw I think the extra satellite will not improve picture quality but rather just maintain it at it's current mediocre level rather than have it go down further in the future, imo.

[SatStorm]

Just of the record:

Technical speaking, the reason Direct TV has this crappy quality, is because there in US, you don't use statistical multiplexing at your trasmissions.
In Europe we had those issues back in 1998 - 1999. Then, a French provider called TPS, present the "statistical multiplexing" method and all the transmissions improved a lot.
Also, the statistical multiplexing method, is the reason transcoders appeared, like dvd2one and dvdshrink! Yes, those applications are based on the same theory, and you saw with DVDs what they are capable to do.

In short terms, a 36Mhz TP "as is", can hold 8 channels with good quality (704 x 576 @ ~5000kb/s). Using statistical multiplexing, you can almost double the channels on a TP, and keep the quality of the picture acceptable.

[Timoleon]

I've got digital cable. I just feed the s-video stream from the converter box to the back of my Gateway DVD Recorder, and from there I feed it to the s-video port on the back of my TV. I stick a ratshack s-video signal booster between the recorder and the TV --- seems to help a bit for viewing.

I also split the signal from the incoming coax and feed it directly into the coax on the back of the recorder, so I can record regular analog signals from the coax or record digital and analog signals from the s-video. I record to a DVD-RW disk and then play with it on the computer. The quality has been *really nice* --- not DVD, but SVCD+.

I can do this all with the timer on the Gateway. I guess I've got a poor man's TIVO or something

[Timoleon]

...then after I'm done messin' with the stream on the computer I burn it back to disk and play it back through the Gateway, using the component video cables this time to view it. Or I can just play it back without messin' with it. Works like a charm.