Out of synch issues with ATI AIW 8500DV and PC CHECK utility

[P_Townshend]

Sorry to bother everyone again with this ongoing problem, but here is my continuance of the dilemma:

I finally got my ATI AIW 8500DV (running MMC 7.7) to work transferring video to the hard drive, but I noticed that after recording the footage and playing it back on the AIW playback, Windows Media Player, and Vegas 4.0 editor, the soundtrack is not synched properly, and when I try to manually synch the footage its not the correct speed and remains unsynched. I'm using a custom made AVI capture of 720x480, 48KHz/16 stereo - using theHuffYUV codec The sound card I'm using is the Soundblaster Live card.

What I did was go to the Launch Pad for ATI AIW, click on the button that opens up the ATI Multimedia Center Configuration, and ran that PC Check, the only errors that this PC Check comes up with are "Checks clock stability is within +/- 0.2%" and "Checks if DMA is enable for every hard drive in your system".

The test results displayed in the end, with regards to the clock stability, states the following:

-----------------------------------

Sound card clock stability

Checks the stability of the sound card.

Test result: Clock stability <+/- 0.2%

Explanation: The audio card clock synchronizes audio with video during DVD playback and video capture. An unstable clock can degrade DVD playback and cause problems with video capture.

Recommendation: Ensure that you have the latest drivers for your audio card. If you still experience problems, try a different audio card.
-----------------------------------

Would you say you agree with their determination of the situation? Any and all help with this situation would be greatly appreciated. I'm begging to lose faith in the prospects of me ever truly transferring my video footage using ATI AIW.

Thanks in advance,
Darren

[FOO]

I used to get the clock thing all the time and then it went away
without changing hardware.
You should definately enable DMA for your drives.

How bad is your sync off ? Any dropped frames ?


You might try getting newer drivers and MMC version

[P_Townshend]

I used to get the clock thing all the time and then it went away
without changing hardware.

---> I uninstalled Soundblaster Live software and drivers and the PC Check shows that the sound card clock error went away. With this type of reaction, I'm beginning to think, more and more, that it might have been something to do with the Soundblaster Live card and its software (perhaps that software was causing enough of a delay to throw it off synch). However, I'm still unsure of this as I've not tried to capture anythying to test this new development.


You should definately enable DMA for your drives.

---> I can't. I've done everything from download stuff from Intel, to getting Windows 2000 updates, to going to the motherboard's site and having them help me, but for whatever reason I can't enable DMA for the life of me. Its very frustrating. I did, however, purchase an external hard drive (using the Firewire connection) and any footage I transfer does not drop frames at all. So, that problem is taken care of.



How bad is your sync off ?

---> it starts off about 5 to 7 seconds off. When I shift the wave file to compensate for this, its synched pretty well to the video image but then it loses synch again, gradually.



Any dropped frames ?

---> none. Thats not the problem.




You might try getting newer drivers and MMC version

---> new drivers for AIW 8500DV?? or for my sound card? I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else out there that has a pretty fast system (P4, 2.1 Ghz processor, 1+Gig RAM, dedicated drives for video capping) using a Soundblaster Live and ATI AIW has the same problem.
I've used MMC 7.7 and 8.1 and the synch is still lost for both of those versions. Lordsmurf, any suggestions here?

Desperately seeking resolution
Darren

[lordsmurf]

The "check" tool is bad. It says all my audio cards are off, but they are not. They are perfect. I ignore it.

Out of sync could easily just be bad playback in WMP9.

Be sure to use newer drivers and then any ATI MMC 8.x is fine.

Make a capture, burn directly onto an ISO CD or ISO DVD, then find a player that can play ISO CD or ISO DVD and play it.

I think the error is playback codecs on the PC, not the file. I'd look there first.

[P_Townshend]

The "check" tool is bad. It says all my audio cards are off, but they are not. They are perfect. I ignore it.

---> Ok, when I get back home I'll check it out. This time, however, I'll use the onboard soundcard versus the Soundblaster to cap video. Do you use Soundblaster Live?



Out of sync could easily just be bad playback in WMP9.

---> I might believe that, but viewing the same video cap footage in all the other instances I mentioned (WMP, Vegas 4.0, and ATI AIW TV) all had out of sync issues, all the same.



Be sure to use newer drivers and then any ATI MMC 8.x is fine.

---> Could you please elaborate on what you mean by newer drivers? Which ones would be most helpful? I've already downloaded and am currently using the latest Catalyst update (4/04). I'm using 8.1 MMC. Is there something more specific to MMC or the drivers that I should be downloading?



Make a capture, burn directly onto an ISO CD or ISO DVD, then find a player that can play ISO CD or ISO DVD and play it.


---> Ok, I'll do just that. I'll transfer footage, render it, burn it to ISO and play it on a DVD player. If its still out of sync, what then?




I think the error is playback codecs on the PC, not the file. I'd look there first.

---> if you could help me by telling me where to look and what to do when I get there, that would be of great help. If I upgraded my Vegas to 5.0, will there be newer playback codecs there? Is there somewhere where I can download newer playback codecs?

All your information has been very helpful. I just need more specifics to help me work on this ongoing problem. Looking forward to more of your replies, thanks.

Warmest regards,
Darren

[Jamie]

I ran into the exact same problem a while back getting another capture box going...

From the research I did, I read there is some issue with the SB Live sound card and the ATI MMC software. I tried moving the SB to other PCI slots but notheing fixed the problem.

I put an old cheap PCI sound card in the machine and the problem went away. As mentioned above, use the latest MMC 9.0.

HTH
Jamie

[P_Townshend]

Jamie,
Thank you so very much for that. I will try to use the onboard soundcard and then try the MMC 9.0.

Thanks again to everyone... if there are any other suggestions please do chime in. All help is very much appreciated.

Sincerely,
Darren

-------------------

I ran into the exact same problem a while back getting another capture box going...

From the research I did, I read there is some issue with the SB Live sound card and the ATI MMC software. I tried moving the SB to other PCI slots but notheing fixed the problem.

I put an old cheap PCI sound card in the machine and the problem went away. As mentioned above, use the latest MMC 9.0.

HTH
Jamie

[lordsmurf]

---> Ok, I'll do just that. I'll transfer footage, render it, burn it to ISO and play it on a DVD player. If its still out of sync, what then?

No. Just capture MPEG, then burn. Don't "render" or anything else.

SoundBlaster cards are perfect for ATI AIW cards, so I don't know where anybody got that incorrect information of SB cards being bad. The only SB cards that fight with ATI are those Audigy cards.

Onboard sound card is usually trash. Don't use it.

If you have system-wide codec problem, it will affect EVERY program you have. As far as how to do this, you'll have to search the forum. I don't have time to get into such elaborate details now... can just give you a push in a good direction. I think this is the culprit.

[P_Townshend]

No. Just capture MPEG, then burn. Don't "render" or anything else.

---> Ok, gotcha! will do. If it works and this DVD is watchable on my DVD players then I'd deduce that its a system-wide codec problem. I'm following you there.



SoundBlaster cards are perfect for ATI AIW cards, so I don't know where anybody got that incorrect information of SB cards being bad. The only SB cards that fight with ATI are those Audigy cards.

---> thats what I thought too... still with you Smurfy!



Onboard sound card is usually trash. Don't use it.
---> its at least worth it for me to try. However, the person who built my computer has a similar onboard sound card and is having no trouble with sync issues. I'll still give it a go and see what happens. If the error is still there, I'd again deduce its the system-wide codec issue.



If you have system-wide codec problem, it will affect EVERY program you have. As far as how to do this, you'll have to search the forum. I don't have time to get into such elaborate details now... can just give you a push in a good direction. I think this is the culprit.

---> Thanks for the push, but it was a bit vague from the onset (and still is to some degree). I'll search the "how to" sections to see if I can get an idea of what I can use to test the system-wide codecs and then just go from there. Thanks again, Lordsmurf.

If there is anyone else out there that can help me more in this field (where to start with analyzing and fixing system-wide codec problems) please point me in the right direction and give another push.

Thanks again to all.... keep these great ideas a rolling...its helping me out a lot 8)

Warmest regards,
Darren

[bottle-necked]

I've had 3 AIW cards on 2 different machines and 3 different soundcards trying to figure out sync problems when capturing AVI with MMC and I've never been able to fix the problem yet. I can capture AVI with most any other capturing software and the files are always fine...

My sync issue is not gradual loss of sync, but simple audio offset. It seems I can't get MMC to capture as much audio (in time) as it does video, so the offset. It's an easy fix by setting Interleaving "Delay Audio By" that amount in VirtualDub, but that creates an additional step I don't like to do. To find the amount to delay I simply subtract audio time from the video time and put that amount in the space. It's usually around 500ms. The original AVI files plays fine in media player and other file players, but are otherwise worthless without the interleaving step. Needless to say I don't capture AVI with MMC much although I like the program. On MPEG captures its always flawless.

I've had gradual loss of sync before and that was with a SoundBlaster Live card. I fixed that problem by getting the right combination of hardware drivers installed. Not at all fun. I was using a VIA chipset motherboard with a Live soundcard at that time.

Have you tried capturing with any other programs like FreeVCR, VirtualVCR or VirtualDub? Those have always worked great for me. I wish I could say the same about MMC, but I can't.

The +/-0.2% clock check. I've ran that test many times. Sometimes it passes then next time it won't. That made no difference either way with my offset issue.

Hope this helps.
Good luck.

[Nelson37]

I have seen MANY reports of users with AIW and SBLive cards having problems, going back several years. Though I had this combination myself with no problems.

Playback synch may very well be a phantom issue. I have had files play OOS with MMC, WMP, several other players yet burn and play perfectly in a standalone DVD. Spent a lot of time chasing this "problem". The issue could be the Huffy codec, which is designed for compression, NOT playback. The only program which I found accurately foretold correct synch state is WinDVD player.

[P_Townshend]

SoundBlaster cards are perfect for ATI AIW cards, so I don't know where anybody got that incorrect information of SB cards being bad. The only SB cards that fight with ATI are those Audigy cards.

Lordsmurf,
I did a clean install of 7.7 MMC and the audio sync problem has dissappeared! Its a miracle!

Anyways, I have a SoundBlaster Live card, and before reading your last post I purchased the Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum audio system. You claim that Audigy cards fight with ATI. Can you tell me if this is something I should return, or whether only certain Audigy cards cause problems.

I'd like to know more about this before I install the new sound card.

Thanks again for all your help.. it made a difference !
Darren

[Almost Human]

SoundBlaster Audigy cards are notorious as resource hogs, and they conflict with lots of programs. Just try to uninstall any SB audio card drivers, you can't without hacking the registry.

My suggestion would be to return the Audigy card and get a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz for under $80. The Santa Cruz provides superior frequency response for audio/video work, and it doesn't interfere with other programs, and is a snap to install/uninstall.

[lordsmurf]

TB Santa Cruz cards are just as notorious as Audigy in this respect.