How to convert PAL DVD to NTSC DVD?

[DJRumpy]

Remember that it only plays back the MPEG at 29.97 fps. The mpeg is still internally only 23.976 fps. The audio framerate is unaffected by pulldown, so if you actually chose the 24->29.97 fps option, you end up with audio that was way to fast for your actual video fps.

That's the nice thing about pulldown. You can actually encode only 23.97 frames per second, but after pulldown is applied, the video LOOKS like it's 29.97fps.

The decoder just squeezes more video frames into each second. Just remember to think of audio and video seperately. Each has the same length. Your not changing the length of either the audio or the video, your only changing the number of frames, so your audio framerate remains at 23.976.

Does that help?

[prybar]

SNAG!

I am using tmpgenc dvd authour, and when i load the mpv, it gives me an error

the video GOP is too long

Max 36 fields (18 frames) for NTSC

I followed Fulci's instructions to a "T" using CCE.

Any ideas?

pry

[FulciLives]

SNAG!

I am using tmpgenc dvd authour, and when i load the mpv, it gives me an error

the video GOP is too long

Max 36 fields (18 frames) for NTSC

I followed Fulci's instructions to a "T" using CCE.

Any ideas?

pry

This happened to me when I first started using CCE and my mistake then ... which I'm guessing is the same that you made ... is that the following needs to be used:

On the VIDEO SETTING tab you need to use:

M=3
N/M=4

That is for PROGRESSIVE NTSC

For INTERLACED NTSC you need to use:

M=3
N/M=5

So my guess is you did N/M=5 instead of N/M=4 and doing that will give you that GOP TOO LONG error in TMPGEnc DVD Author.

If this is what you did wrong THEN you will need to re-encode because your video file is not in spec.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[prybar]

Man you're good!

Now that i gotta re-encode, my results will be delayed, but i'll post once i get it done!

I agree with Zetti, this is the be all and end all for PAL -> NTSC guides, by far the best i've found, and should be made into a guide that ppl could be pointed at, rather than poor Fulci re-typing the same responses over and over again.

Also, thanks DJRumpy for clearing up the pulldown question, it makes alot more sense now.

Hopefully someday I can contribute to the forum a fraction of what i've learned from it so far.

Cheers all

pry

[Gazorgan]

I'll throw it in: Why bother? My $40 and $60 settop players convert PAL to NTSC on the fly. I'll never buy a settop player that can't.

The only reason I currently convert is a DVDR Authored from clips, since mixing PAL and NTSC on 1 DVDR is tricky.

[Zetti]

@ Fulci,

At the moment I have to convert a video and so just in case I printed this topic and got home to test it;

If I make the test in Gordian Knot (new tool for me), I see no artefacts, so it means it's progressive......

Anyway, if I make the well-known "Even-odd field (field)" TMPGEnc method test, it CLEARS indicates that the video is Top field (smooth), cause I can CLEARLY notice that the video isn't smooth when it's set to Bottom ...

Any opinion ? Is Gordian Knot that accurate ? Should I have to set anything at Gordian Knot I might have skipped ? I just loaded the d2V file and pressed the forward and back buttons at my keyboard...

Thanks,

Zetti

[Zetti]

I might add that Restream says it's Top field as well.....

Just to make sure my eyes are good, loaded the D2V file into Gordian Knot again...pressing the forward or back buttons shows me a smooth video, no artefacts at all;

Opinions ?

Zetti

[FulciLives]

Sounds progressive to me.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Zetti]

@Fulci,

I might say you're probably correct, as there are artefacts on the final movie - encoded as if it were interlaced Top field;

I'll make a conversion based on the progressive AVSynth script;

I have a serious trouble in hands at the moment, I am unsure whether I might start another topic or post it here, anyway as Fulci is here, I'll start here anyway :

I have two MPEG2 files, extracted from two DVD discs :

1) 4:3 NTSC

2) 16:9 PAL

I wanna burn an unique DVD with both MPEG's..

Choice for the target disc is : NTSC, 16X9;

So, one question borns : how can I convert a 4:3 NTSC file to 16:9 also NTSC ?

Regarding the 16:9 PAL to 16:9 NTSC, I'll try other two possibilities : encoding choosing now Bottom at TMPGEnc, which I believe won't solve it, and follow Fulci's guess and try a Progressive conversion;

BTW, the 4:3 NTSC has been extracted from a disc that was burned on stand-alone recorder, I assume that stand alone recorders only make interlaced recordings, right ?

Thanks,

Zetti

[Zetti]

@ Fulci and all,

I started another topic regarding the 4:3 to 16:9 NTSC conversion, please disregard my post here,

Thanks,

Zetti

[prybar]

@ Gazorgan

Mine does too, and i agree, but i have friends who do not have this feature, and are too inept to explain the process to them, so rather than listen to them gripe when they borrow my dvds, i will now just convert to NTSC.



pry

[SaSi]

So, if I understand correctly, the NTSC video material runs at 23,976 fps and if one wants to convert to PAL, the audio needs to run faster at 25 fps.

In reverse, to convert PAL to NTSC, audio needs to slow down from 25fps to 23,976 fps.

Is the above assumption correct?

Or, is it different in NTSC for Film (original material at 24fps) and video (original material in 29,76 fps as on TV)?

Probably confused the issue totaly here...

[FulciLives]

So, if I understand correctly, the NTSC video material runs at 23,976 fps and if one wants to convert to PAL, the audio needs to run faster at 25 fps.

In reverse, to convert PAL to NTSC, audio needs to slow down from 25fps to 23,976 fps.

Is the above assumption correct?

Or, is it different in NTSC for Film (original material at 24fps) and video (original material in 29,76 fps as on TV)?

Probably confused the issue totaly here...

I'm not sure what the deal is with purely interlaced NTSC that comes from a video camcorder i.e., 29.970fps

All I do know for sure is that converting PAL audio from 25.000fps to 23.970fps works for PAL to NTSC conversion (when you are slowing down the video frame rate from 25.000fps to 23.976fps).

The other method using Xesdeeni's SmoothDeinterlacer works in such a way that the new video IS now NTSC but the same length as the original PAL so the sound matches the new video without needing to be processed.

But yeah that still leaves us with the question about 29.970fps purely interlaced NTSC from a camcorder.

Perhaps DJRumpy knows ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

Just thought of something I wanted to add ...

Xesdeeni has a script that will convert interlaced 29.970fps NTSC video to 25.000fps interlaced PAL video in such a way so that the new PAL video has the same running time as the original NTSC meaning the audio can be used "as is" with no processing.

So perhaps the question is moot?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[DJRumpy]

I know Xesdeeni has a pal to ntsc which uses a variation of telecining the video (the same method used to convert 23.976 to 29.97 fps), but it doesn't work the other way around, going from 29.97 to 25 fps. You would have to do a destructive edit to remove frames. The player can be told to increase frames by duplicating them, but you can't remove them without some sort of destructive method. Even if there was some sort of flag to tell a player to ignore a frame, it would still, in essense, be dropped from the video

True interlaced NTSC material is a bad thing...

If your source is true interlaced NTSC video, your kind of stuck. The only way to reduce the number of frames, is to eliminate frames in those situtations. If an NTSC film is telecined, you can just perform inverse telecine on it, to remove those 'duplicated' frames, but no such frames exist on a true interlaced source. If you have to do so, I would suggest an adaptive filter that looks for the two most identical frames and then removes one of those. It would make the 'jump' in the video much less apparent.

[prybar]

Well, after a few more re-encodes, i am finally able to report my results.

FANTASTIC!!!!

Cannot tell any difference between the original and the new NTSC.

One little pointer to any noobs. Once you set up CCE the way you like it and save it, the next time you change something (ie bitrate), the advanced video setting (in my case it seems) defaults back to
M=3
N/M=5

which is good for inerlaced, but not progresive (like mine was).

Basically, double check everything, cuz i lost almost 20 hours of encoding due to that simple switch.

Once again, thank you immensely Fulcilives and DJRumpy, you 2 are what forums are all about.

pry

[FulciLives]

Once again, thank you immensely Fulcilives and DJRumpy, you 2 are what forums are all about.

Thanks for the kind words and I am glad you got it to work

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[thor300]

prybar, glad it worked for you, and you are right about fulci, hes a great resource of knowledge. However, i personally dont like this way of converting pal/ntsc v.v., the AssumeFPS() funtion in AviSynth is the best for picture quality, no doubt, but i find the ~4% faster/slower sound to be disturbing on parts of the movie where its music, so i been using ConvertFPS() instead, it keeps the original playing time. It will degrade the picture quality a little, but i prefer that instead of lower/higher tones in the music parts. Its individual anyway, and 3-4 beers will also fix the problem

[DJRumpy]

LOL Amen to that!

I prefer the speed up/slow down method myself, both only for PAL to FILM. I've never attempted a 29.97 to 25 fps direct conversion, assuming the change in audio pitch would be too noticable. I'm in NTSC land though, so I've never had the need.

Someone here probably came up with 29.97 just to torture us.

Can't we all just get along? 8)

[SoCalMK]

This message is for FulciLives. Thank you once again for all of the great instructions you've posted and thanks also to everyone else who posted. While I am not a complet newb, I admit that I had trouble understanding some of the instructions. But I am happy to say that I am now at the stage where I am converting the video. I know you reccomended CCE, but I am using TMPGenc since I am more familiar with the program. Unfortunately since my computer sucks, its going to take about 10 hours. I'll tackle the audio section tomorrow and I'll post my results hopefully by Sunday. Thank you to everyone once again.

[SoCalMK]

I don't think FulciLives is reading this post anymore, but I thought it be prudent to post my results anyway. I'm happy to say that after a few failed attempts, the PAL DVD to NTSC DVD conversion was a success. At first I had all sorts of trouble with the .avs script, then I was stuck on keeping the aspect ratio of the original dvd, and finally I had audio problems when attempting to convert the original PAL DD 5.1. I just finished watching the entire resulting dvd, and everything looked and sounded great. I know I began this post by asking if there was any simple program that would allow me to accomplish this with just a few clicks, but now I am happy that I had to do it this way. Going through this step by step, reading the various guides and reading all of your posts have helped me to understand much more than I previously did. So once again thank you to everyone who helped, especially Fulci.

[FulciLives]

Glad you got it to work out

I'm curious if maybe you could share with us what pitfalls you encountered and what you did and how you figured out to do it etc.

I've been doing this for so long that I forget it can be a bit tricky so it would be refreshing to hear your comments from someone that is new at doing it.

Might help me to finalize writing up a "proper" guide for doing it

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SoCalMK]

This is going to make me sound like a complete newb, but I had the most difficult time using .avs scripts. I simply had to idea that you could load a text file into a program like TMPGenc instead of the actual video file. I got over this dilemma quickly, but then I encountered great difficulty trying to retain the aspect ration of the original PAL DVD. The DVD in question was an anamorphic widescreen concert shot in Scotland. I used TMPGenc instead of CCE since I was more familiar with the former, but the finished video looked stretched and distorted (it was behaving as if it was being displayed on a widescreen tv and the video was being “uncompressed”). I finally discovered the following settings to be correct: aspect ratio- 16: 9; Video Arrange Method (under the advanced settings)- Center keep aspect ratio. The second problem I encountered was with the audio conversion. I incorrectly converted the original PAL 5.1 AC-3 to PCM Wave and that resulted in a loud crackling noise in the background. I read your posts on this thread more carefully and converted it to a new AC-3 with the FPS conversion using AC-3 machine. After that, it was just a matter of deciding which authoring programs to use and where to set the chapter marks. I ended up using TMPGenc DVD Author. Setting the chapter marks took a while since the counters on the original PAL and the finished NTSC did not run the same. So I watched the PAL DVD just at the chapter marks and wrote down video cues, then went back to the NTSC finished video and set the marks up accordingly. By the way, is there an easier and shorter way to do this? After all this I had a NTSC DVD with 5.1 AC-3 and a very good anamorphic widescreen picture. I have to thank you again Fulci. The customer who came in with this job loved the finished product and I got paid very well on it.

[FulciLives]

This is going to make me sound like a complete newb, but I had the most difficult time using .avs scripts. I simply had to idea that you could load a text file into a program like TMPGenc instead of the actual video file. I got over this dilemma quickly, but then I encountered great difficulty trying to retain the aspect ration of the original PAL DVD. The DVD in question was an anamorphic widescreen concert shot in Scotland. I used TMPGenc instead of CCE since I was more familiar with the former, but the finished video looked stretched and distorted (it was behaving as if it was being displayed on a widescreen tv and the video was being “uncompressed”). I finally discovered the following settings to be correct: aspect ratio- 16: 9; Video Arrange Method (under the advanced settings)- Center keep aspect ratio.

Yes I suppose the "concept" of the AviSynth AVS "text" script is a bit odd when you are new to it but you can do amazing things with it

I'm actually writing a guide now (almost done) on how to do this conversion using TMPGEnc alone i.e., without AviSynth scripting. Again if the source is progressive this will work. You can just directly load the D2V project file. In that case you can select "CENTER (CUSTOM SIZE)" for the VIDEO ARRANGE METHOD and simply enter 720x480 for the resize values. When you do that SOURCE ASPECT RATIO has no bearing. Of course there are other settings that have to be set up just right to do the conversion properly. I'll probably have the guide up sometime over the weekend I guess. Personally though I still prefer AviSynth and CCE so this new guide is basically for those that don't want to use AviSynth.

The second problem I encountered was with the audio conversion. I incorrectly converted the original PAL 5.1 AC-3 to PCM Wave and that resulted in a loud crackling noise in the background. I read your posts on this thread more carefully and converted it to a new AC-3 with the FPS conversion using AC-3 machine. After that, it was just a matter of deciding which authoring programs to use and where to set the chapter marks. I ended up using TMPGenc DVD Author. Setting the chapter marks took a while since the counters on the original PAL and the finished NTSC did not run the same. So I watched the PAL DVD just at the chapter marks and wrote down video cues, then went back to the NTSC finished video and set the marks up accordingly. By the way, is there an easier and shorter way to do this? After all this I had a NTSC DVD with 5.1 AC-3 and a very good anamorphic widescreen picture. I have to thank you again Fulci. The customer who came in with this job loved the finished product and I got paid very well on it.

I also use TMPGEnc DVD Author. I also do exactly as you did ... I have a TV with a stand alone DVD player in the same room as my computer. This DVD player can play PAL DVD discs and output NTSC to the TV. So I play the DVD and hit "next chapter" etc. as I try to match it with TMPGEnc DVD Author. I have yet to find another DVD authoring program that makes chapter selection as easy as TMPGEnc DVD Author does.

I don't have PAY PAL so should I PM you my mailing address so you can mail me my cut of the profit? :P

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SoCalMK]

I wish I could send you some money and it would be well deserved. But unfortunately it is already gone towards my back rent. If you're ever in the L.A. area, come by my Internet Cafe and there will be no charge, although I doubt we have anything that you already don't and then some. I have a collection of "home movies" from customers that I've had to convert. Would you be interested in those? J/K!

[FulciLives]

I wish I could send you some money and it would be well deserved. But unfortunately it is already gone towards my back rent. If you're ever in the L.A. area, come by my Internet Cafe and there will be no charge, although I doubt we have anything that you already don't and then some. I have a collection of "home movies" from customers that I've had to convert. Would you be interested in those? J/K!

If I ever visit LA again (I went to USC for a single year WAY back in 1990/91) then I will take you up on that offer ... perhaps a free cappacino

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Mp_3]

OK!
Here is the question for all of the GURUS
I did the convertion of the movie. i have the m2v file. when i play it with media player it wont "scroll" i cant just see the middle of the movie. when i do that it pops right back into the beginning and starts to play over. is this normal?? But anyway... this isnt my bigest problem.

When i author my dvd (i used DVD-lab & TMPEG DVD Author, both came out with the same problem) the movie is like plays 1 second and stops for like 0.25second then another second then pause again for 0.25 sec. Why is that?? The whole movie on the dvd isnt smooth at all. but when i play it on the media player, it shows good. Even the internal player in the dvd-lab plays it right. I dont know what to do... Somebody please help me !!

[FulciLives]

OK!
Here is the question for all of the GURUS
I did the convertion of the movie. i have the m2v file. when i play it with media player it wont "scroll" i cant just see the middle of the movie. when i do that it pops right back into the beginning and starts to play over. is this normal?? But anyway... this isnt my bigest problem.

When i author my dvd (i used DVD-lab & TMPEG DVD Author, both came out with the same problem) the movie is like plays 1 second and stops for like 0.25second then another second then pause again for 0.25 sec. Why is that?? The whole movie on the dvd isnt smooth at all. but when i play it on the media player, it shows good. Even the internal player in the dvd-lab plays it right. I dont know what to do... Somebody please help me !!

What encoder did you use?

If you use CCE then you have to run PULLDOWN.EXE afterwards to "flag" the file correctly for 3:2 pulldown otherwise it will play back choppy and incorrect all around.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Mp_3]

I used TMPEG with the pulldown when i did the encoding. after when i watch the movie when its done, it plays fine, only thing i cant scroll the movie. But after when i author the disc, then it turns out crappy. i tried dvd-lab and tmpeg dvd author to do the dvd. both of them turned out same. choppy. but the source before i author the movie is good, smooth, not choppy at all, and thats after encoding, with the 3:2 pulldown.

[FulciLives]

I used TMPEG with the pulldown when i did the encoding. after when i watch the movie when its done, it plays fine, only thing i cant scroll the movie. But after when i author the disc, then it turns out crappy. i tried dvd-lab and tmpeg dvd author to do the dvd. both of them turned out same. choppy. but the source before i author the movie is good, smooth, not choppy at all, and thats after encoding, with the 3:2 pulldown.

In TMPGEnc you don't check mark "3:2 pulldown" on the ADVANCED TAB. I'm just guessing but that is a mistake some people do. Instead on the ADVANCED TAB make sure you select, "NON-INTERLACED (PROGRESSIVE)" for the setting called VIDEO SOURCE TYPE. Then on the VIDEO TAB first select "3:2 pulldown on playback" for the ENCODE MODE and then for the FRAME RATE you select "23.976fps (internally 29.970fps)"

What can you tell me about your source file?

This process usually only really works when the PAL source is PROGRESSIVE video.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

*** EDIT *** UPDATE ***
Please note that on the ADVANCED TAB you need to check mark "DO NOT FRAME RATE CONVERSION"

Audio should of course be done separately by using BeSweet.