I 've got a JVC HR S8960 recorder, which tapes are good for use, ?
which ones have a "headcleaning" function ? (give less particles off) ?
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I personally don't know. But I hope no smartasses decide to reply to this thread with some kind of "use DVD instead" post. That would be neither funny nor helpful.
I almost don't record on (S)VHS anymore these days (It's now almost all DV ) but i have used a few SVHS brands. I used mainly FUJI and BASF/EMTEC. Clearly the BASF tapes worked best for me. Those gave the best picture and the least dropouts. Specially I can see that with my older recordings I did. Also the BASF/EMTEC are chrome tapes, which also have a bit of cleaning effect on the video heads.
For normal VHS I prefered the TDK-EHG tapes.
I also tried the SVHS-ET mode on a few normal VHS tapes but the results were not that great. After some time the signal degrades quickly I discovered, resulting in bad picture and lot's of dropouts.
On my JVC HR-S9600U I prefer Fuji and JVC tape. I think it's more a matter of preference than any one brand standing out above the others. I don't like TDK's cheap cassette shells which are riveted together (no way to open them if something got stuck). (Worst brands: Polaroid, RCA, Memorex, anything generic.)
I don't like standard grade tape (any brand) at all. Too much grain and pale colors. High grade tape is the best value for money and a considerable jump in quality from standard grade. Pro grade is only slightly better than high grade, usually not worth the premium price.
I have a JVC HR-S7600U on the way that will mostly be used for Home Movie captures but I also want to use it for Football games this fall.
With a SVHS 210 tape I can get the whole game in SVHS SP mode but I haven't seen any for sale.
Any ideas where to get quality SVHS 210 min tapes?
stcik with Fuji or JVC, and better to get their SHVS tapes also, watch out for prices I have seen them range from $4.99 to $9.99 each.
If you buy extra high grade tapes of the fuji you can modify them to record on SVHS or just use the VHS-ET mode and you can record Quasi-SVHS on any tape, the lower grade the tape the less resolution it will record, on a standard grade tape VHS-ET mode is around 300 to 330 lines of resolution, whilr on a extra high grade you may actually pull off 380 to the max of 400 lines. remember you SVHS machines fall 125 lines short of what a DVD recorder will provide you. 400 lines max SVHS, 525 lines max DVD recorder, true some recorder can only pull 500 and that in the one hour mode, 2 hour mode usually around 450, the 3,4,6 hours modes drop way off, then again the EP mode on SVHS is around 300-330 also.
Do not use tapes longer than 120 minutes. They are thin and easily die.
SVHS = JVC, Fuji
VHS = TDK EHG, JVC
SVHS = Maxell
VHS = Maxell*, RCA, Memorex, Polaroid, anything generic
Decent, but I avoid anyway:
SVHS = Panasonic, Sony
VHS = Fuji, Kodak, Sony, TDK Revue,
*Maxell used to be good. But not since about 1999.
"Pro" grade and "broadcast" grade doesn't mean much. The biggest misnomer is "broadcast" to begin with, as they all use Beta and SVHS, never VHS. Things like "standard" and "premium" also mean nothing. There is nothing to control these wordings. Just company marketing here.
I use to do tape duplication and my favorite tape was FUJI towards the end of it (I stopped doing it about a year ago).
Even the standard "extra high grade" Fuji's are good (black box) but the Fuji Pro (gold box) is REALLY nice.
One thing I noticed about the FUJI tapes is that on jet black parts (leader I put on the tapes) the FUJI had the most concise even black whereas many other tapes had uneven black.
If you ask me that's a good test for the quality of the tape
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
FUJI PRO VHS always struck me as being excessively grainy. And I saw color fading pretty bad on them too.
The regular FUJI VHS were better than the PRO in my experience.
Unless it said "S-VHS" FUJI, I stayed clear of them.
Did you ever notice anything like that ?
Originally Posted by yodel
Sorry 888888, since he already got help I could't resist...
I've had very good luck with all of the TDK tapes marketed. Some of my older tapes were 20 years old at the time I captured them ...still good!
I'm guessing that VCR tapes are like camcorders, optical discs, and everything else in this world.
There's only a few manufacturers around the world. Companies like Sony, Fuji, TDK, and others buy from these manufacturers and slap their name brand on the product.
For instance, you buy a Sony CD or DVD burner and you are likely to get a LiteON or NEC burner that has its chip programmed to report itself as a Sony while it is actually made by LiteON or NEC.
If you buy a pack of Sony CDR's, you might get discs made by TaiyoYuden of Japan or CMC Magnetics of Taiwan.
With a CDR or DVD blank disc, there is software to identify the true manufacturer of that disc.
I don't know of any such technique for discovering the true manufacturer of a VCR tape. However, a search through Google should provide some insight.
One thing I've discovered with disc blanks is that you can get a good batch sometimes and a bad batch sometimes. It doesn't matter whose brand name is on the pack and it doesn't matter which factory made them.
I'd be willing to bet its the same with VCR tapes.
I have seen a few independent tests done with VCR tapes. Those tests indicate that no one brand is better than another. Those tests also indicate that the high grade tapes are no better than the standard grade tapes.
To truly evaluate the VCR tape, you'd have to discover the manufacturer of the particular tape that you had purchased. Then, you'd have to evaluate the substrate, the binder and the particle formulation used in that particular production run for the manufacturer who made that particular tape.
Perhaps you could locate, on the web, a video archiving company. Or, perhaps, you could locate a video archiving library. One of these sources might be able to offer some suggestions for purchase.
For example, in the CDR world, Mitsui brand discs are used in medical applications. Mitsui manufactures their own discs in a few factories around the globe. This total in house processing gives them full control over quality.
Alas, however, even Mitsui discs have been reported by users as troublesome. Much depends on the particular lot from which you buy.
The difference for discs is probably the same as the difference for VCR tapes. The difference seems to be the sampling rate and production tolerances during production. You pay more for a Mitsui disc manufactured for medical purposes because they sample more instances of the final product and allow only tight tolerances when sold for that purpose.
The same probably goes for VCR tape. Find that video tape archiver source that I mentioned and they can probably recommend a certain brand logo that would indicate it is sold for medical or archival purposes. It will be the same tape, but, sampled more often during production to improve the odds that you've received a tape built to the original design standards. It may have also been produced under certain conditions that will more probably result in a product that more closely resembles the design specifications.
Does this sufficiently complicate matters? Probably.
During any mass production process, things are produced according to certain design specifications. On the other hand, during production, you can allow a variation in tolerance.
In other words, Manufacturer A might know that if they produce 700 tapes per hour on a particular machine, they will get a 20% variance from specs on a particular attribute of the product. This might be tolerable for the home market where the end user is only going to be recording reruns of the Simpsons.
On the other hand, Manufacturer A might discover that a 5% variance from specs might be attainable if the machine is only run fast enough to produce 200 tapes per hour. Naturally, the cost of the tape increases because many of the fixed costs remain constant. For that increased cost, they offer closer tolerances and they may also offer testing of an increased number of the final product. The same tape is produced, but, obviously, the 5% variance provides a greater chance that the tape will perform as advertised throughout each centimeter of its length. That tape might also provide greater longevity when all tolerances are tight so that chemical formulation and application are more evenly stabilized.
So, they slap "medical grade" or "archival quality" on the tape that came from the 5% run and you pay an increased price.
Which do you need? Maybe 20% variance for taping the Simpsons and 5% variance for taping the birth of your child. Depends on your preferences.
Discovering the actual "quality" of the tape you purchase may simply depend on finding that "archival" rated tape. Or, it may be more difficult since all of these specifications are closely guarded secrets belonging to patented processes of private companies.
Of course, it is also possible that one company's archival tape quality might be worse than another company's standard grade tape. These differences would be hard for you to discover unless you used lots of tape over many years. That's where the recommendations of "experts" like video archiving libraries can be helpful.
Also remember, brand names can switch their manufacturing sources. TDK can buy from one company today and a different company tomorrow. Much depends on price and performance contracts, interpersonal relations, international politics, and many other factors.
I'd be willing to bet, however, that if you searched the web for archivers who are charged with the responsibility of preserving video, you'll discover that there are certain gold standards for tape brands.
Thing is, archivers probably don't use the ½ inch tape format found in consumer video cassettes. On the other hand, the ½ inch tape format is used in some medical and governmental applications. There are cetainly medical and archival grade tapes available in the ½ inch format.
Good luck with your search and please post any findings here for all of us to explore.
These and many more factors are involved in the manufacturing process for all products. Isn't it interesting that even a new car or truck follow some of the same rules? That means you walk on the lot and unless you know some things about the particular manufacturing processes involved for each component of the car or truck, you are just taking a large chance on getting a "lemon." That's where most of us consumers live ... large chance for failure no matter what we buy ... including VCR tapes.
Originally Posted by VideoJockey2002
lordsmurf wrote:I still think the best ones were from Germany, out of BASF.
That campaign through television, magazines, newspapers, etc., touted the fact that BASF doesn't make the product ... they make some of the raw materials that are used in the product.
In that advertising campaign, they mentioned several different end-products and proudly hyped that BASF didn't produce the product ... only some of the materials. It just so happens, video tape, I believe, was one of the products mentioned.
So there is video tape still manufactured with the BASF brand name? I'll have to look into that. As you say, could be good stuff.
GuestGuestOriginally Posted by 888888
Originally Posted by VideoJockey2002
JVC and TDK run the show now with VHS.
I have never gotten good results from any grade of VHS Sony tape, no matter what recorder I've used (I have five). I also miss the old BASF tapes, they were excellent. Not too much into tape anymore, but I usually use Fuji when I do. Decent all-around tape, good price locally.
Best of Luck,
Originally Posted by lordsmurf
I also tried S-VHS ET mode with the same VCR using MAXELL Hi-Fi grade tapes (the old formula in the purple box) and it looked the same ... grainy.
I chocked it up to S-VHS ET mode just not being that great i.e., did not notice the problem of grain with real S-VHS blanks (Maxell mostly sometimes TDK) or when using normal VHS mode. I only ever had that one S-VHS JVC (and two Panasonic's before that but that was WAY before the time of S-VHS ET mode days).
Most of my VCR's were TOSHIBA brands ... the 6-head Hi-Fi models ... I sure miss them. I'm down to only 2 that work now. At one time I had like 6 of them I think.
As for my history of using VHS tapes while doing a lot of taping i.e., duplication ...
At first I started using the SONY V tapes. That was WAY back when they were like $5.99 to $6.99 each. Then for a number of years I used the TDK Hi-Fi tape and sometimes in a "pinch" the TDK E-HG tape. Then that (the TDK Hi-Fi) started to get hard to find and prices were comming down on tapes but QUALITY tapes were hard-to-find on the retail level. I started using whatever I could find since everyone suddenly seemed to get all price conscious on me. The new Sony tapes (blue for T-120 & purple for T-160) are garbage, especially the T-160 tapes (snap alot when you rewind them) ... the newer Maxell tapes (the red one's) are OK but nothing like the old Hi-Fi graded ones (purple). Then I started to use FUJI big time then because they were more expensive than the SONY or MAXELL tapes but I thought the quality was really nice. I mostly used the black one's but would use the pro gold one's for special stuff.
I think right now it's hard to beat the FUJI VHS tapes. K-MART always seems to have them in stock. I never noticed any color fade on them or any other problems etc.
- John "FulciLives" Coleman
I have some very old now BASF T-180 VHS tapes that were recorded at the SP speed. These came in a black box and was the best tape for extra long length. I also have a few of the old BASF T-160 tapes (red box) and those also seemed to be a good tape as well.
Wow ! thanks for the great response of all !
Yes, the difference between JVC and Sony SVHS, starts to begin
in the price Sony SVHS = 5 Euro, JVC SVHS 12 Euro, i noticed.
Haven't seen Fuji SVHS in my neighbourhood yet, SVHS tapes are
not widely sold in my place, the big warehouses haven't any,
photo shops do have the JVC SVHS ones,
SVHS tapes i bought since i own my HR S8960 are: Sony "Professional Quality" (180 min) maxell XR-S (Black magnetite) (240 min)
and a normal VHS tape:Sony Pro-X V (180 min)
Thanks for the help for now, i get a good idea of it, and where to
look for, thanks for the Memorex tape "tip", i almost bought a bunch,
it looks like they sell more bad stuff than the really good ones...
btw. i indeed noticed the bad quality when using the SVHS enhancement
"mode" on normal VHS tapes, the picture seems to be "flat" somehow,
I'll report back soon with "findings"
I can HIGHLY recommend FUJI H471S SVHS tapes.
They will even work great on a digital DVHS unit when recording in DVHS mode.
I get about 12 hrs of record time in LS3 mode (4.7MBs)
Even if I only had a VHS unit i would still only use H471S tapes.
The op i don't know but i didn't want to make a new thread, this one is relevant. I've been reusing my vcr a lot lately, i might record things onto tapes again mostly for nostalgic reasons/ feelings. I collect blu ray/ dvds since way back not to mention my dvb-t captures all over my hdd's. Long live the vhs (s-vhs preferably though)
Are there particular things that are specific to SVHS compared to VHS? Like, with audio cassettes you had Types I, II and IV, where the material used and the recording requirements and the response were interrelated, like originally you could get certain response only with Chrome, but later cobalt-doped ferric tapes were developed to give the same result, but they accepted the same recording parameters like equalization and bias. But at least you knew that for better recording you needed type II or IV, and depending on the deck and the player you needed to flip a switch or two.
How SVHS compares? Is it high-bias tape? Is it always a chrome tape (apparently, not). Is it something similar to Type II audio tape? But Type II audio tape does not work well in Type I cassette deck, while SVHS cassette can, apparently, be recorded onto using a standard VHS VCR, and it will still work (it will not record in SVHS, obviously, but it will work as a regular VHS cassette). So either the difference between SVHS and VHS tape is narrower than between Type I and Type II cassette tapes, or the capability of VCRs is wider. And then there is metal tape for W-VHS (or ED-Beta), which would be analogous to Type IV cassette tape, but I think I have more clarity with it, than with how exactly SVHS tape differs from regular VHS tape. I guess, the difference is small after all, considering that JVC legalized SVHS-ET mode in the late 1990s.
Anyone can clear the fog?
S-VHS improved the luminance horizontal resolution by using higher frequency modulation for luma which allowed more samples (pixels in digital) for the horizontal lines, Vertical resolution, Chroma and audio stayed the same, Special formulation tape is used to record that higher frequency.