DVD+R's only play in half the machines they used to...

[KBesq]

Hey, folks-

Not really a newbie, but this sure feels like a newbie problem, and I don't know where else to put it. I have to believe somebody out there has an educated guess about this, and I'm open to all suggestions. I've burned hundreds of CD's and dozens of DVD's with an HP 200j DVD writer. I burned the mp3 discs on Memorex CD-R's using Easy CD Creator 5 and burned DVD's on Memorex DVD+R 4x using ULead Movie Factory 2. Never a problem with either; the mp3 discs played perfectly on my computer, in my Magnavox DVD/mp3 player, and in my portable Audiophase mp3 player in the car. The DVD's always worked great in all four of my DVD players: the Magnavox, an Apex 1200, an Apex 1500, and an older Toshiba SD-1600.
Unfortunately, the 200j went bad a month ago and Best Buy swapped it out for a Digital Research 4xDVD+/-R/RW burner that's supposed to be better than the HP was. Found out too late it doesn't work with Easy CD Creator, so I loaded up the Instant CD Creator program that came with the burner and started burning the music discs. I was surprised and confused to find that the mp3 discs played fine in my computer and in the Magnavox DVD/mp3 player, but weren't recognized by the Audiophase. After messing around with things, I found out that if I burned them with RecordNow (which came bundled with my HP, though I'd never even looked at until this problem arose), the mp3's were recognized and played just fine on the Audiophase, my computer, and the Magnavox. This would indicate that it's not the burner at all, doesn't it? Sounds like a software problem, right?
So I thought until I started burning DVD's -still using ULead Movie Factory and the Memorex DVD+R's that had served me faithfully for months- and I would then check them on the Magnavox DVD player (my main machine). They worked great, so it never occurred to me to check them on the other machines. When I finally did, it turns out that they play on the Magnavox and the Apex 1500, but not the Apex 1200 or the Toshiba which don't recognize them at all. More confusing, I can burn VCD's (again, Memorex CD-R, ULead, and the Digital Research burner) and they play in the Magnavox and BOTH Apex machines! (The Toshiba never played VCD's, so that was no surprise.)
So it seems it's not the burner and not the software, but then all it can be is the media, right? Since I started checking it out, I'm seeing these Memorex DVD+R's maligned all over the Internet (including by the tech from Digital Research who says they've gotten "thousands of complaints" about Memorex. But they always worked fine before, and they still work fine in two machines, so can that really be the problem? This just really makes no sense to me.
Am I on the wrong track completely here? The guy at Digital Research recommended updating my ASPI drivers, but that didn’t change anything. If anybody has seen a situation like this –or even if you just have some good guesses as to what it might be- I’d love to hear them. I wasted a lot of CD-R’s solving the mp3 problem, and I really don’t want to go through many DVD+R’s at a buck a pop figuring this thing out. (And I hate to buy different media when I’ve got a whole spindle of these Memorex left unless I have a pretty good idea they’re really the problem.)
Thanks for reading all this, and thanks in advance for your help.

[Nilfennasion]

It is still early days in the media yet, so it isn't surprising that there are incompatibilities between DVD+R and some players. This especially goes for Toshiba, who are anti-+R to the hilt. Which is why I will never buy Toshiba again.

Eventually, players will emerge that will be compatible with at least four of the five recordable formats. Denon are already well ahead in that respect. Their DVD-900 can play + and -R.

[KBesq]

"... it isn't surprising that there are incompatibilities between DVD+R and some players. This especially goes for Toshiba, who are anti-+R to the hilt. Which is why I will never buy Toshiba again...."

Right, but that's not what puzzles me. This very same Toshiba ALREADY plays Memorex DVD+R's; just NOT the ones I burn on the Digital Research burner. It brings me back to suspecting the burner, which seemed to be ruled out since it works on everything else. So again: burner, software, media, or something else? Anybody?

[tompika]

I've burned hundreds of CD's and dozens of DVD's with an HP 200j DVD writer. I burned the mp3 discs on Memorex CD-R's using Easy CD Creator 5 and burned DVD's on Memorex DVD+R 4x using ULead Movie Factory 2. Never a problem with either; the mp3 discs played perfectly on my computer, in my Magnavox DVD/mp3 player, and in my portable Audiophase mp3 player in the car. The DVD's always worked great in all four of my DVD players: the Magnavox, an Apex 1200, an Apex 1500, and an older Toshiba SD-1600.

just NOT the ones I burn on the Digital Research burner

Be aware that your good old HP200 always burned DVD-ROM booktype on the DVD+R discs by default

The Digital Research does not (can not)

Thats the answer...

[DVDDave]

good answer tompika

[sacajaweeda]

Just out of curiosity, what kind of DVDs are we talking about here? You making a copy of an existing (store bought) DVD that's giving you playback problems, or is this a project from source you created yourself either capturing with a card or downloading from a camera, or maybe converting downloaded files off the 'net? If you're creating/converting your own stuff the whole thing could be knackered because of an error made by you and you could be chasing your tail trying to figure out why your stuff ain't playing.

[KBesq]

Be aware that your good old HP200 always burned DVD-ROM booktype on the DVD+R discs by default

The Digital Research does not (can not)

Thats the answer...

Thanks for the reply; can you tell me what that means? And is there any way around it?

[tompika]

And is there any way around it?

yeah, burn DVD-R...

[KBesq]

is this a project from source you created yourself either capturing with a card or downloading from a camera, or maybe converting downloaded files off the 'net

It's actually a couple different things. It's either converted VHS video (ADVC-100 for capture, the absolute greatest thing on earth) and TMPGenc Plus for conversion), or *.avi captured straight from cable using the ADVC and converted with TMPGenc.

And back to the DVD-Rom default explanation, is that also the cause of the mp3's I burned working in one mp3 player and not another?

[tompika]

And is there any way around it?

This digital research must be a rebadged drive.
Is it a dual one or plusonly format drive?
Whats the firmware version?

Is the mp3 DVDmp3?

[KBesq]

Hey, Tompika-

Sounds like you're the guy I need to know! The only question I can answer for sure is that the writer is dual-version. (DVD +/- R/RW). For whatever reason, it shows up on my computer as generic 4x. There are no drivers to update. (I believe I found somebody in a different forum trying to figure out what type of burner it "really" is.)
So what does "rebadged" mean? How do I find the firmware version? And how do I know if I'm burning DVDmp3? Does that refer to the media, the software, or the burn? (In fact, for whatever it's worth, I actually just burn the mp3's through RecordNow as data files. I number all the tracks so they don't default to alphabetical order. Same process didn't work with Instant CD Creator.)
(By the way, I'm willing to find the answers to the newbie-type questions myself, but if somebody can give me a link to the explanations, I can answer your questions faster.)
Thanks again!

[KBesq]

And thanks, sacajaweeda, for your thoughts. Did I answer your questions?

[tompika]

DVDInfoPRO will tell you a lot about your drive. (firmware, etc...)

Try to click on the +RW icon. If your drive is a rebadged Liteon, BenQ, Nec, etc then you might be able to bitset.

[sacajaweeda]

I was just checking the obvious stuff. Sometimes that stuff gets missed. You haven't changed anything in the encoding/authoring process from the way you created discs before that played fine have you? Audio formats, frame sizes, etc.

[KBesq]

Hey, guys-

You haven't changed anything in the encoding/authoring process from the way you created discs before that played fine have you? Audio formats, frame sizes, etc.

Not that I know of, sacajaweeda, but I can't swear to it. After the HP writer went out, an incompatibility problem between Easy CD Creator and the new Instant CD Creator knocked out some of the programs I'd been using (something unique to Roxio, I'm told) and I had to do a complete XP reinstall. When I reloaded TMPGenc Plus, I tried to put everything back where I was, using the same information I'd gotten here at dvdrhelp. If something's off, I'm not sure what it would be or how I would even check it.

This digital research must be a rebadged drive.
Is it a dual one or plusonly format drive?
Whats the firmware version? Is the mp3 DVDmp3?

Tompika, DVDRinfo tells me that it's GENERIC DVD DUAL 4XMAX, firmware revision 2.17. Lots of other info, too, but I'm not sure what part of it would be helpful.

[tompika]

DVDRinfo tells me that it's GENERIC DVD DUAL 4XMAX, firmware revision 2.17

Sounds like an MSI (Optorite201-Sanyo) drive.
It won't bitset but you might try to improve its DVD-R performance with a firmware update
http://forum.rpc1.org/dl_firmware.php?download_id=1267
http://forum.rpc1.org/dl_firmware.php?download_id=1627
http://forum.rpc1.org/dl_firmware.php?download_id=1669

But first I would ask the firmware furum http://forum.rpc1.org/index.php if the Optorite fw works with this drive.

[KBesq]

Well, I can add one bit of information to all this. I spent an apparently unnecessary $15 to buy a 5-pack of Fuji DVD+R's. Burned the first one and it does the exact same thing. It works on the same two DVD players as the Memorex did, and isn't recognized by the other two.

Sounds like an MSI (Optorite201-Sanyo) drive.
It won't bitset but you might try to improve its DVD-R performance with a firmware update

That name looks familiar; it might be the same one that came up on the other forum I was talking about. But did you mean to write DVD- (emphasize minus) R? Even though this thing is supposed to write -R DVD's, I'm trying to stay away from that since the whole issue is to get my 4 DVD players that USED to play +R discs to play them again.

[tompika]

Even though this thing is supposed to write -R DVD's, I'm trying to stay away from that since the whole issue is to get my 4 DVD players that USED to play +R discs to play them again.

You need to understand that the HP firmware marks DVD+R as DVD-ROM but the Digital Research does not.

So in this case you should try DVD-R

[KBesq]

You need to understand that the HP firmware marks DVD+R as DVD-ROM and the Digital Research does not. So in this case you should try DVD-R

This must be the part I'm misunderstanding. Won't that defeat the whole purpose of what I'm trying to do here? It may burn the DVD successfully, but isn't it likely that NONE of my DVD players will play it?!? Or am I wrong in thinking that they're all DVD+R players? I just assumed they are, since that's all I've ever played in them.

[tompika]

I believe all your players should play DVD-R.

Two of them play DVD+R as DVD+R the other two do not.

The HP fooled those two players by marking DVD+R's as DVD-ROM (like an original pressed DVD) so they did not refuse to play them.
Its called bitsetting.

[KBesq]

I believe all your players should play DVD-R

If that's the case, then I'll happily convert to DVD-R's.

Off to Best Buy (the Happiest Place on Earth) to get some.

Thanks again, Tompica! I'll let you know!

[tompika]

If it turns out that your drive is an Optorite-Sanyo (if it can HD burn then it is) inside then you might wanna know that earlier firmwares had problems writing some DVD-R medias.
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=187157&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=


If you experience something like that visit http://forum.rpc1.org/index.php for advice to flash the latest 2.60 fw

[KBesq]

tompika, you are the MAN!

Picked up a 6-pack of Fuji DVD-R's, and got set to burn the first one. It tossed up a warning about a default setting called "quick eject" which the box said might make the disc incompatible with some players. I checked "Disable and continue," did the disc, and you're absolutely right. Plays in every machine!

So now my only problem is that I'm stuck with about 40 Memorex and four Fuji DVD+R's I don't need... Ah, well. Live and learn.

Oh, and I checked out that site you mentioned. I have to admit the conversation was completely over my head. I'm hoping that it has to do with the fact that the finalization seems to take forever. [I timed it; took nearly 13 minutes from the time the writing hit 100% to the time the DVD was ejected and the "successful burn" message came up. It seems to me that hangup has only been happening since I installed the ASPI drivers the Digital Research guy told me to install. Apparently none of the programs I run (including CDex, ShowBiz, ULead Movie Factory, and a few other things) even require it. They all worked fine even when ASPICheck said I didn't even have any. Is there any advantage to leaving them on there? Is it possible they're what's causing the thing to hang at the end, or doesn't that even make sense?]

Hey, whether I hear from you or not, thanks again for the help! Looks like I'm back in business with this stuff. See ya!

[thxkid]

After letting go my HP200 to my wife I did a little research, bought the nec 2500a, able to hack with firmware so it will burn all DVD+R's as DVD-Rom, so no matter what blank media I buy I know either will play in any DVD player and never say never abought a drive unable to bitset, the same was said about the NEC 2500a when it 1st came out also.

[KBesq]

Hey, guys-

Back again, hoping I can bother you one last time. After wrapping things up the other day, I heard from the folks at Digital Research. My man John over there didn't directly confirm that the writer was an Optorite-Sanyo, but he wrote and asked if it had one button in front or two (I didn't realize it had ANY because the writer is inside the original HP tower and the buttons are hidden). When I told him it has two, he sent me a zip file with an update and told me to let him know if it works.
I know I'm being paranoid here, but this can't screw anything up, can it? Everything's working okay now (though it seems to take a long time to finalize the disc) and I just don't want to mess with success. Are firmware updates reversible? I'm not even sure exactly how to do this. I opened the zip file, and when I click on DV2Flash I get a Select Device choice. (Oh, and there's an Optorite logo down in the lower corner, by the way.) Choosing my DVD writer puts 2.17 into the box that says Device F/W Ver. There are three bars that say Send Data to Device, Verify Data, and Flashing. There's also a blank for File F/W Ver, and I know I'm supposed to do something with it, but I don't know what. If I just hit OK, it tells me to select a file first.
I really hate to bother you with questions like these, but since you've helped me this far, I hope you don't mind hanging in there a little while more. (By the way, thxkid, I'm not sure I follow your post, but if it means I can burn these DVD+R's as DVD-roms, I'd love to know how to do it.)
Thanks again, guys!

[tompika]

If it can HDburn its an Optorite-Sanyo
Check it with DVDInfo PRO


Also read that Optorite thread I linked earlier

[KBesq]

Howdy!

(Hmm! Just replied to this thread and thought I submitted it. Apparently not.)
Anyway, I went ahead with the 2.50 flash; seems to have worked okay, though I probably won't get a chance until tomorrow to see if it speeds up the burning and/or affects the DVD+R compatibility issue.
Over at the firmware forum you mentioned, tompika, they mentioned having CD-R problems after the 2.23 upgrade. Did they ever get that fixed? I hope so, because it seems I have the same problem now. (Writer doesn't recognize CD-R's.) Not sure I understand what their workaround is (enabling DMA, etc.) but I'll take another look.
Still, I think I'm closer than I was, so thanks again! I'll let you know what happens.

[KBesq]

Well, I'm stumped.
I tried to do the things I understood over at the firmware forum, but my drive still doesn't recognize CD-R's. It can read already-burned audio CD's and DVD's, but no luck with the CDR's, and therefore, I can't burn any VCD's or any music. There's something over there about DMA settings (I can find them, but I don't know what to do with them) and about resetting the writer. Can somebody explain to me how either one is done?
More to the point, wasn't this problem fixed back around version 2.30? The version I got from Digital Research is 2.50. I shouldn't even be having this problem, should I?
Someday soon I hope to stop bothering you folks...

[tompika]

There's something over there about DMA settings (I can find them, but I don't know what to do with them) and about resetting the writer. Can somebody explain to me how either one is done?

I received a power calibration error when I tried to read a CD-RW and a CD-R,not to worry I just enabled DMA and shut down my PC,restarted and burned a small data file and erased it...all is well.

Device Manager - IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers - double click on the Secondary (or Primary) IDE channel - Advanced Settings - Enable DMA - OK - reboot

[KBesq]

I'm almost embarrassed to come slinking back in here with this news, but I offer it just in case anybody who actually knows less about these things than I do ever wanders in here.
The DMA settings weren't the issue; Device 0 (the burner, I assume) was already DMA enabled. The other device (my CD-ROM) wasn't, so I changed it just to rule it out and rebooted. Still no CD-R so I changed it back. Did a Google search on "E:\ is not accessible. Incorrect function." and found a ton of ideas as to how to fix that problem. I was too scared to try most of them, so I just kept poking around on my own. I found out, entirely by accident, that if I go to the E drive through "My Computer" instead of through the device manager, I get a different set of options including "recording". Inside that tab is a box to check that says "Enable CD recording." I hit apply, OK, and the CD-R showed up.
So how stupid do I feel, to find out it was that simple? Man.
So, I went ahead and burned a VCD just to make sure it works, and it does. The firmware is updated to v2.50 though there's still a long wait between the burning hitting 100% and the DVD ejecting with "Successful operation". DVD+R still only plays in two machines, but I didn't expect that to change. Sounds like switching to DVD-R and just being patient during the long finalization will solve the problems I came to you with.
That leads me to two final questions, and I wonder if anybody's thinking on this has changed since you all wrote about it last October. 1.) If everything's working okay, should you leave well enough alone or go ahead and just keep installing the firmware updates? The Digital Research guy sent me the zip for 2.50, but Optorite already has 2.60 ready to go. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and do it. 2.) Is there any harm in doing the flashing inside XP, instead of the DOS boot disk? By the time I realized there was a risk, I'd already done it, hopefully with no harm done. (Not sure I can do the DOS thing right, anyway.)
Just curious as to what you guys think. And thanks again; it's been a very educational couple of days! So long---