How many minutes DVD-quality movie on a 4.7Gb disk?

[distendo]

I'm assuming this is a no brainer... However, I've tried searching for an answer, but couldn't find one straight-forward enough. What prompted me to ask can be found in my previous (much-read but not-answered) posting:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=892991#892991

I'm assuming I can include files (vob etc.) up to around 4.32Gb on a standard dvd disk, and thereby produce a high-quality home movie which lasts for much longer than 60 minutes.

Studio 8 only allows 60 minutes, and around 2.3Gb data per disk, but Pinnacle say this is a limitation of the media.

I don't buy this explanation: can anyone here sell me a better one?

[j1d10t]

Well, what's your definition of "high-quality"? Depending on the bit rate of your video/audio depends on how much video/audio you can fit on a DVDR.

If you use an encoder like TMPGEnc you can manually adjust the bit rate for the video/audio, increasing, or decreasing the amount of video/audio that will fit on a DVDR. I think Studio 8 only had CBR (Constant Bit Rate), whereas TMPGEnc (as well as other encoders) have VBR (Variable Bit Rate) settings, that will allow for even more video/audio to fit on a DVDR.

So there really is no one answer about how much video/audio you can fit on a DVDR. It's all about the bit rate.

If you want to know how much actual storage space is on a DVDR, that depends on what brand of media you are using, as some will give bad results the closer you get to the edge of the DVD.

No matter what media you are using though, it should hold more than 2.3GB - I can (safely) fit 4.3GB on all of my DVDRs. So there, Pinnacle is giving you a line of BS.

[gitreel]

there is another active topic on this subject. I suggest you read that thread.

[reboot]

Author a non-compliant VCD to DVD at less than 1150 bitrate, and you can probably fit 20 hours on a dvd, or Roughly 6 hours of SVCD mpeg, or 2 hours of actual (near)DVD quality mpeg.

[distendo]

Thanks j1d10t. In this context, it isn't actually a matter of the bitrate: Pinnacle are saying 2.3Gb (approx) is the max data, and if you want more time, you need to reduce the bitrate to fit witin that 2.3Gb limit i.e. "Unfortunately there is no way of burning more than 58/60 mins to a DVD, which holds almost 2GB of disc space. Most commercial DVD's are pressed, and use dual layered, dual sided DVD's which allow a huge capacity. With Studio 8, and a standard single layered/single sided DVD, only 60 mins of footage can be burned."

Your comment "No matter what media you are using though, it should hold more than 2.3GB - I can (safely) fit 4.3GB on all of my DVDRs. So there, Pinnacle is giving you a line of BS" is what I'd been thinking. Thanks for the confirmation.

Thanks for the sugestion, gitreel. Though without the URL it kinda limps...

Thanks for the response reboot. However, as above, it isn't really the bitrate or the quality that I'm checking, it's Pinnacle's assertion that there's a 2.3Gb limit (i.e. about 60 mins home movie high-quality) per dvd disk that I was questioning.

[freestyler]

Here's the url:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219129

[distendo]

Excellent, thank you.

Again, it confirms my suspicion that Pinnacle are spouting rubbish... I shall get back to them and add any interesting response to this topic.

[distendo]

Pinnacle's latest response:
"You can make upto 124 mins DVD on a 4.7GB disk. However, you will not get good quality DVD with this."
They completely ignored my points, and again wanted me to visit
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/dvd3.htm
and
http://www.dvdrhelp.com
I asked where on electronics.howstuffworks.com there was anything to support their claim that only approx 2.3Gb was 'available' on a 4.7Gb DVD disk.
And I told them that the general consensus on this forum was that they were talking 'rubbish' (to paraphrase j1d10t :P )
It's weird when realise you're watching someone paint themselves into a corner...

[PhreakPhish]

I brought this issue up a couple months ago. Its posted somewhere. Thats what sucks about P8. Nothing you can do about it.

[MysticE]

It's not rubbish, Ulead's DVD Workshop 2 ($495) also has a 'High Quality 60 min.' template available. The fact that you can fit many hours (depending on the bitrate you use) in the same space doesn't change the fact that many high end programs feel 60 minutes is high quality (it certainly is). You shouldn't confuse high end authoring programs with simple transcoder/copy programs.

[PhreakPhish]

I don't know about that program - But in P8 you can do high DVD quality - But your mpeg file can not reach over 2.4 or something around there - Pinnacle already knows about this problem

[walter4h]

Since some replies mentioned the amt of data they were able to cram on a DVD, I add my 2c, even though this is not the main subject of the post: maximum I was able to fit on a DVD was 4.426 GB, as indicated by DVD Architect. However, when I looked in Explorer, the size of the DiscImage.dvd file was 4.532.272
ReelDVD, which I use for authoring said "estimated size 4.337 GB for that movie.
My DVD Architect sets the threshold, it would first ask me - "file size too big, would you like to proceed anyway?", I say "Yes", but it would then spit out a DVD without burning, with a final msg "file size too big for this media"
walter

[Baldrick]

4.426 GB, as indicated by DVD Architect. However, when I looked in Explorer, the size of the DiscImage.dvd file was 4.532.272

4.426 GB = 4532.272 MB (4532.272/1024) and that is too much for a dvd-5.

[distendo]

I really don't understand MysticE's contribution at all, and wonder if he's (she's) missed the point...

Let me ask, therefore, how many gigabytes does Ulead's DVD Workshop 2 use for its 'High Quality 60 min' movie?

I wouldn't mind a 'High Quality 60-minute' option which made available substantially the whole DVD disk for the output. I'd be glad if an authoring program allowed a 'much longer duration at lower bitrate' option, which could also occupy virtually the whole DVD if required.

What I find dubious is S8 restricting the maximum available disk space to approx 2.3GB whatever the quality, on the unlikely basis that this is a restriction of home-burned dvd media*, and what I'm beginning to find insulting is Pinnacle stating that therefore it's technically impossible to develop S8 to use the remaining 2Gb at all!

Which is where I find PhreakPhish's input surprising, unless Pinnacle's position as above* is in fact technically correct. In correspondence with me, Pinnacle don't seem to accept that this is 'a problem' with S8.

I'm not sure what MysticE means by "high end authoring programs" and "simple transcoder/copy programs". Are you defining S8 as a 'simple transcoder/copy program'?

[tag]

I apologize in advance if this has been addressed elsewhere but have to inquire into the exact nature of the problem here.

The assertion that one cannot fit more than 2.3GB on a disk using Studio sounds so whacky that I have to assume there has been some sort of breakdown in communication. Personally, I have done so with version 9 and others have with version 8 (some have done projects of close to 3 hours in length).

My understanding, from reading what has been posted here and on the Pinnacle boards, is that Studio (v9, at least) reserves anywhere from 5-10% (depending upon whom you believe) for compatibility purposes and overhead. So, the limitation is closer to 4GB.

Is there anyone who can provide further clarification on this issue?

[distendo]

Hello Tag, thanks for the input.

No breakdown of communication, but a particularly unhinged technical perspective from Pinnacle, who state:
"Unfortunately there is no way of burning more than 58/60 mins to a DVD, which holds almost 2GB of disc space. Most commercial DVD's are pressed, and use dual layered, dual sided DVD's which allow a huge capacity. With Studio 8, and a standard single layered/single sided DVD, only 60 mins of footage can be burned.
"You can try maximising this capacity by selecting 'Most video on Disk' which will lower your quality for the extra space. Alternatively, use the DVD as a DATA DVD and burn the raw movie file rather than the DVD format (although it won't play on a standalone DVD player)."

You mention people producing a 3-hour DVD using S8, but this doesn't necessarily mean they were using more disk space. S8's method of exceeding the 1-hour limitation is to reduce the quality/bitrate. So could you verify this?

However, I would of course be very interested to discover whether (and how) anyone persuaded S8 to include longer video, utilising more of the disk space instead of greater compression.

[tag]

Well, I don't know where the person who wrote a DVD "holds almost 2GB of disc space" gets off but that's clearly wrong.

Anyway, I think I can only be of limited utility at this point since I only used version 8 for a day before upgrading to version 9. Consequently, I'd suggest running your dilemma by the folks on the Studio 8 Board and see what develops.

All I really know is that, with version 9, you can fit more than an hour on a disk and, with about an hour at "best quality", you're going to use around 4GB on the disk. With "most video on disc" selected, you can fit around 124 minutes with LPCM and around 175 minutes with MPEG audio. Either way, you're not going to get "high-quality". You are, however, going to wind up with a disk that takes more than 2GB worth of space.

[distendo]

I followed this up with Pinnacle on the 1st, and on the 5th I updated my enquiry (or 'called Pinnacle's bluff') on the basis of Tag's last comment about S9, but - surprise surprise - everything's gone quiet.

I may wade through the rather intrusive registration process for the Studio 8 Board and see what happens there... But S8 is beginning to look more like a con. And Pinnacle, a con merchant, I guess...

[distendo]

Latest 'explantion' from Pinnacle:

"You can make 59 mins of best quality DVD using Studio. It is standard and Studio follows stardard. If you select best quality and MPEG audio option, you can make 69 mins of video."

This starts off by repeating what I've obviously noticed, and which is the basis of my enquiry, but certainly avoided answering my question about S9's '4Gb capacity' (ref Tag).

I've asked for a reference to this 'standard'. Anyone have any idea what this might turn out to be (apart from unique to S8)?