TMPGEnc 2.01 Encoding Quality

[chung_chang]

My stand-along DVD player can handle up to 6000kbps CBR for XSVCD. However, even at that rate, the picture quality looks no where near commercial DVD titles(Pulp Fiction). I can zoom in 2x with DVD and picture still look crisp without blocks. At no zoom with XSVCD, many frames are badly blocky. What gives? Do I need a better encoder?

Encoder: TMPGEnc 2.01, SVCD+unlock templates, 720x480, CBR 6000kbps, Highest Quality.

XSVCD source: miniDV captured with firewire by MediaStudio 6 at 720x480. AVI looks crisp before conversion.

[pinoy2201]

yeah...u want DVD perfect quality why dont u just buy the DVD....a xvcd is only avrage to the VHS ...so just buy the DVD if u want perfect quality

[SatStorm]

Try to encode with tmpeg 12H and CQ_VBR, not CBR...
About 4000kb/s XSVCD should be great...

[D.D.G.]

Hello!

(X)SVCD is 480x480 (NTSC) or 480x576 (Pal) NOT 720x480 or 720x576.

Maybe it helps.

D.D.G.

[chung_chang]

Thanks for the replies. I will try tmpeg 12H. Where can I find this?

By the way pinoy2201, I am not ripping DVD's. I am trying to archive my home videos from miniDV to CD-R so that makes them priceless to me.

I would like to keep the archives as close to the original captured miniDV as possible for later editing. When I got a close look at Pulp Fiction DVD picture quality, I was amazed at how clear it was. As far as I can tell from reading some threads in this forum, most DVDs average around 6000 kbps VBR. Then, what I did with TMPGEnc at 720x480@6000 kbps CBR should come somewhat close. But it was SEVERAL TIMES worse. I hope this is because of poor encoder and using tmpeg 12H as suggested by SatStorm would help.

Thanks,

Chung

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chung_chang on 2001-11-07 16:51:40 ]</font>

[Kdiddy]

" I am trying to archive my home videos from miniDV to CD-R "

"even at that rate, the picture quality looks no where near commercial DVD titles(Pulp Fiction). "

Two inherent things wrong with these statements and your train of thought. Home Videos will NEVER look as good as DVD titles unless you shot them with movie studio production type cameras which I highly doubt. Secondly, why in the world are you trying to make it DVD FORMAT only to place it on a CDR media. Because if you plan on burning in DVD FORMAT, I hope you have 1 of the 2% of players on the market that support miniDVD...otherwise making a DVD ompliant video stream only to burn as SVCD is somewhat useless considering your source.

"Encoder: TMPGEnc 2.01, SVCD+unlock templates, 720x480, CBR 6000kbps, Highest Quality."

As DDG stated, your problem here is that your resolution is too high when considering your source, you need to try at max 480x480, but would recmommned giving 352x240 a shot as well. I dont know how much time of these home videos you plan on fitting per disk...but at 6000 kbps you are only going to be able to get ~17 mins of video per disk. So if you plan to fit longer amount of time of video per disk, you will have to drop your bitrate significantly.

TMPG 2.01(as well as other versions) is an outstanding encoder, but it is only as good as the person using it.

[chung_chang]

ok, take it easy Kdiddy. I am a newbie at this and only started encoding video since last weekend when I bought my first DVD player (Daewoo 5000N).

If I played my miniDV straight from digital camcorder on my TV, sure the quality is not even near commercial DVD. From my untrained eyes, I could see that colors are not as vivid. There are more 'noises' under less than idea lighting. What I am referring to in my quality comparisons are the MANY MANY 'blocks' that appeared in my encoded video. I hardly saw any blocks at all on the DVD even in high motion scenes.

As far as encoding at 720x480, I am trying to preserve as much of the original capture as possible which is at 720x480. I didn't even realize that I am encoding in miniDVD format.

As I am archiving my home videos, I am not concerned about how much time I can fit on a CD as I am with preserving the original quality. Then why am I even encoding at all? Well, if anyone has captured miniDV to their PC, you know that each minute of raw DV takes about 200MB...that's a whopping 12GB for 1 hour!!! Why not leave them on miniDV tapes? MiniDV tapes can get pretty expensive when added up. Even if I could only fit 15 minutes per CD-R, 1 hour will use 4 CD-Rs at $0.80 compared to $6 per miniDV tape.

Being able to play these encoded videos on my new DVD player is a major bonus. The highest I can go on XSVCD or miniDVD or whatever on a CD-R is 6000 kbps CBR before it starts skipping. At that bitrate, I really did not expect many blocks appearing on more than 80% of the frames in my video. By the way, they were not high motion videos either. Simply my baby learning how to crawl. The blocks distorts my baby's eyes, face, nose.... that are somewhat noticible while playing back but seriously apparent when paused.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. By the way, I've searched high and low on the internet and found this forum to be the best.

Chung

[Kdiddy]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>ok, take it easy Kdiddy</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I am, what are you referring to, I simply answered your post.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>I am a newbie at this</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

This is why you should listen carefully to what others suggest you do.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE> What I am referring to in my quality comparisons are the MANY MANY 'blocks' that appeared in my encoded video. I hardly saw any blocks at all on the DVD even in high motion scenes. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Again, I must restate the rule of garbage in = garbage out, basically, give up on the idea of getting video quality that on par/equal to that of DVD. Your process is miniDV, TMPG encoder,mpeg2. DVD is studio production camera, HIGH dollar hardware encoder most likely, mpeg2. Thus your source quality & encoder is no where near that of what production companies use, so do not expect same quality.

"As far as encoding at 720x480, I am trying to preserve as much of the original capture as possible which is at 720x480. I didn't even realize that I am encoding in miniDVD format."

That resolution does not automatically make a miniDVD. You were implying that wanted a DVD complaint mpeg2, thus the only reason to have a DVD compliant mpeg2 would be to use in a miniDVD or on a DVD-R. Ok if you want to keep this resolution then, fine, but then you will have to feed it more bitrate to increase the quality. But you can't do this because you player wont play a bitrate higher than 6 mbps, thus your only alternative is to lower your resolution.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>Even if I could only fit 15 minutes per CD-R, 1 hour will use 4 CD-Rs at $0.80 compared to $6 per miniDV tape.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

If you are satisfied with having to switch out 4 disk to watch a video your child crawl, then fine. But most people fine that bothersome and time consuming to make that many disks. Especially when the easier alternative is to make the mpeg at lower bitrate & lower resolution in order to fit it on 1 or 2 disks.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>At that bitrate, I really did not expect many blocks appearing on more than 80% of the frames in my video.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Again, given what you have told us so far, that is indicative of possibly to high of resolution or user error during the conversion process. So please try lowering the resolution to 480x480 and 352x240 and see what you get. If you stil get blockage, then list you ENTIRE steps of your encode process, so we can see if you making an error during your process.

[chung_chang]

I understand where you're coming from Kdiddy. But I wouldn't go as far as calling my DV originals "garbage in". But "garbage out" is more like what I am getting.

I have tried 480x480 SVCD all default settings in TMPGEnc and "blockage" was worse. I didn't experiment too much at 480x480 as the thought of chopping 1/3 resolution off of my original was not very attractive. Again, these are mainly for archiving purposes saved for later editing(and able to play these archives on my DVD player is a huge bonus). If I wanted to archive at 480x480, I could've saved hundreds of bucks and bought a Hi-8mm camcorder instead.


The steps I have taken are:

Load SuperVideoCD(NTSC) template
Load Extra\Unlock template
Change size to 720 x 480
Set CBR 6000 kbps
Highest quality
Tried soften block noise on at default 35
Tried Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr not CCIR601
Tried DC component precision at 10 bits

Please recommend other settings.

Thanks,

Chung

[Kdiddy]

Wasnt saying it was garbage, saying that is the moniker for the rule, that basically you will only get out as good as you put in, not better...taking for granted that your AVI is good before you used TMPG...well first I recommend DESELECTING "Tried Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr not CCIR601" but keep all the rest of your settings you listed...also under GOP strcuture, try using 1,5,2,1 and check only "detect scene change"....you can also try raising your "VBV buffer size" to around 100...I'll assume you are doing mpeg2, non-interlaced...from there what app are you using to burn to CDR??...off hand, since your settings seem correct, if you are still getting "major blockage" 2 things still might be happening....A)it sounds like your bitrate level is still too high for your player...a note: most DVD video is average of 4.5-5 mbps...so I would try lowering it down to 4 mpbs, you can leave it at 720x480..or B) your player doesnt like your brand of CDR media...on my player for instance, my miniDVDs on cheap CDR play has far worse pixelation blips/hiccups than ones I have put on CDRW,...for testing purposes I recommend CDRW always....these 2 causes are probably more so if the mpeg plays fine first on the PC with blockage.