Microsoft Posts Critical Patches

[SatStorm]

Why the last 2 weeks, we - the not native english speaking users - are getting so much attacks and flames?
I bet there is a plan here! Against us! :P


@Sefy: You are now located in USA, right? I would like to tell me about it, in general.
The situation in Greece is exactly like the situation in Israel back in mid 90s (without the bombings and attacks, but I see that coming here too, expecially now with what is happening to Cyprus and the Olympics right in the corner...), and I'm start thinking the alternative to moove on with my life. I don't know, Australia, maybe USA.... Just a (desperate...) thought of mine.

[Sefy]

@SatStorm, no, I was in the US only for vacation time
Personaly, with all due respect to americans, i'm not a big fan of the USA due to it's politcs. I want to live in New-Zealand or Australia, and that is where i'm aiming, they are FAR away from all the troubles, which is what I need in my life, a peaceful, quiet living!

[SatStorm]

Oh boy, I would be crusify if I was replied like you...
First because you rise an opinion about the americans (they don't like that...) and second because you didn't use capital "A" on the general term "americans"
I was flamed 3 pages and almost got a yellow card because of it!

Yes, Australia is better and has many Greeks. I could be there, that's my first choice also...
Thanks!

[tompika]

DVD-R sucks

[vitualis]

Melbourne (Victoria, Australia) has the largest Greek population in a city outslde of Athens I think...

Australia's immigration policy is backward IMHO (in no small part thanks to Mr Howard but that's going into one of the "forbidden" topics). I can't believe we're not letting someone like you in Sefy.

BTW: I think WinXP is pretty okay too... Linux is okay but still not for general users. IMHO, hardware support is still an issue. As for Macs... well not for me.

Regards.

[Sefy]

@SatStorm, I always speak my mind, being honest is part of it, who would give you a yellow card just because you used americans and not Americans ? that sounds ridicules

@vitualis, lets say thanks to my X is the reason why i'm not in Australia the last 3 years, my Visa was dependent on her, and when she broke up with me it sorta ruined my Visa, and by then, the entry level just got higher and higher till it's practicly impossible to get in

Lets hope I can manage to get into New-Zealand, and then If i'd still want to, I can go into Australia as well

[SatStorm]

For us Greeks the things are a bit easier to immigrate to Australia.
No, it wasn't the capital "a" the problem, but what followed...

[Sefy]

@SatStorm, can you give me the link to that post in question ? I wanna know what happened there exactly. And yes, Israelies have a hard time going to any place in this world. We are not welcomed.

@vitualis, I agree with you on Linux, it is not user friendly at all, especialy when it comes to installing drivers for example, it's a disasster. I don't wanna be a programmer just to be able to use an OS, and untill they get it, Linux is not gonna work.

Personaly I got three OS's on my PC which I switch around, each for their own specific tasks.

[JohnnyCNote]

For us Greeks the things are a bit easier to immigrate to Australia.
No, it wasn't the capital "a" the problem, but what followed...

Gia sou! Ti kaneis;

[petar]

Come on guys. Windows isn't that bad. I've used many OSs - DOS, Win 3, Win 95/98, Mac, HP-UX, Sun Solaris, XP/2000 and I can say that Windows is improving. The problem with Windows is that you need to "look after" it. Be careful what you install and make sure it's all clean after uninstalling something. Also do periodic check-ups of you system. Granted, Microsoft shouldn't expect this from an average user, especially because it's aimed at a mass market.

I used to work in telecommunications where Unix is the OS of choice and I've seen in two occasions a customer crash an HP-UX, something I honestly thought it's not possible because of the way the core is designed and these machines are built to run one application only (i.e. network management, for example, and nothing else) and be rock-stable.

So no OS is "bullet-proof". Some more than others and Windows is probably not far from the bottom but XP is a great improvement over the previous versions.

[SatStorm]

@Sefy: You won't understand exactly what happened, because most things are now deleted after request. Here is the link from the point I steped on https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=216954&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75

Anyway, I end up been blamed for Rasism, Fasicm and "america" hater. And all started because I didn't use capital "A" on the "americans"!!!

Yeah, about Israelis the situation is bad, I know...

@JohnnyCNote: Patriotis; 'H apla amerikanos pou 3erei Ellinika; Sto forum exei arketous Ellines 3ereis, apla den fenontai!

[Sefy]

@petar, it could have been better if there was REAL support for it, and not having the public beta test it, they did it with every OS and they are going to do it with Longhorn as well, we are their little pigs for testing. Does anyone here remember XP when it came out ? not even Office worked on it!

[jimmalenko]

Does anyone here remember XP when it came out ? not even Office worked on it!

I remember it well. It was pretty ordinary in the beginning. I have found that as time has gone on, more hardware and software was being made to be supported by it and after SP1, most deficiencies had been ironed out. I resisted the move until about 2 years ago.

Let's face it, it would be pretty hard for Microsoft to test their product using every single hardware combination in the world today. There are bound to be problems when you use a limited testing environment. It makes sense to get the public to try it as you cover all possibilities hardware-wise.

[Sefy]

@jimmalenko, I don't have any problem being a Beta Tester, as long as they pay me for it! not that I pay THEM to beta test their software!

Trust me, they have enough money to buy any hardware they need to do any beta testing of their products. But notice, I said OFFICE which is their own product, that didn't work with THEIR new OS!

I'll stick to 98SE and 2000, because I got legal licences for them and I got them both for free. As for XP, I ain't spending a cent on it, besides it is the same as 2000 except for a fancy shmancy interface which I dispise and takes about 3 times the amount of space 2000 does :P

[triphop]

Lucifer,

The book that I would recommend would be is: Running Linux. This really is a soup-to-nuts work that is widely regarded.

http://www.bookpool.com/.x/iqwngm7tri/sm/0596002726

trip.[/url]

[lordsmurf]

@JohnnyCNote: Patriotis; 'H apla amerikanos pou 3erei Ellinika; Sto forum exei arketous Ellines 3ereis, apla den fenontai!

See ... now that's how you do it. Talk about taboo subjects all you want witohut the threat of yellow/red cards, especially when we don't understand and http://babelfish.altavista.com doesn't either.

It's all Greek to me!

[jimmalenko]

But notice, I said OFFICE which is their own product, that didn't work with THEIR new OS!

Yeah, I know. I did read it.

Even I won't defend them for that

[petar]

Sefy, I share your views but it's the world we live in. People blame Microsoft for making money rather than good software but then name one company that gives priority to their product quality over meeting financial targets?

I, as a shareholder of Microsoft (I'm not; I'm just giving myself as an example), want my shares to go up when Microsoft ships a new OS on time and sells more. Don't give a toss if they have to fix some issues afterwards and if people get pissed off because of that (since they have little choice in terms of competition anyway).

Now if Microsoft would have some serious competition (Apple users, before someone jumps at me, I'm talking market share not product quality) things would be different. But they are not. So for the time being, we'll have to be happy that XP/2000 are an improvement over 95/98. By the way, wasn't the US admin suing Microsoft over monopoly? Since Bush Jr. that kind of slowed down. What happened at the end?

[SatStorm]

Let's face it: WinXP is nothing more than Win2K covered. And for some people, it is just a marketing move of m$ to keep up with the "update" policy that follows the last 10 years and at the same time, support Intel CPUs.
For the AMD users, W2K with latest service pack is the higer you can go with a m$ OS.
And WinXP works best on OEM PCs. If you built your own PC, win2K is the OS to be...


@ lordsmurf: This is not Greeks, it is "Greeklish". Greeks typed with latin characters. A need for us like PAL60 for European VCRs for example. You need a special translator for this, as we need special drivers to grabb PAL60.
And it wasn't something bad: I said" Hi brother, are you Greek or just an American who knows Greeks? There are many Greeks in the forum, but they don't show easy"

[Capmaster]

The poor noobs are going to run screaming in the other direction

[Sefy]

@petar, we make the world which we live in, us, the little people around. Not the big bosses. If we start doing something about it, then WE can force them down. Problem is, most people like to complain and that's it. I on the other hand refuse to have anything to do with them. I Don't have ANY product that has Microsoft logo on it, except for Windows, which I got since I was a beta tester 8)

PS: IBM to this day supports OS/2 Warp 3 and 4, even though they keep on saying every year that they are stopping the support

[jimmalenko]

For the AMD users, W2K with latest service pack is the higer you can go with a m$ OS.

I have built three AMD systems with WinXP. Not a problem.

And WinXP works best on OEM PCs. If you built your own PC, win2K is the OS to be...

Gotta disagree here too.

[SatStorm]

Well, maybe that is how the things run out in your location (OZ)

In the real world, pair a via chipset based mobo, an athlon xp and any kind of soundblaster audio card. Then, sit down and watch your PC explode when you install WinXP! And if you wish an even bigger explosion, combine this with an ATI card...
You know, there was a non US/UK joke in the internet 2 years ago: "M$ presents the latest USA-made "smart" weapon. It is called "WinXP" and can make any PC explode (windows eXPlode). Just install it and follow the OSD instructions...."

And before I get a response like "via chipsets no good - via chipsets have a limited market", I remind you that outside US of A and Western Europe in specific, we use only Via Chipsets, because those Mobos are the ones we can buy. Only the last year, we have Mobos with cheap nforce 2 chipsets and we saw almost all the issues we had to deal with solved, once and for all!

[jimmalenko]

Well, maybe that is how the things run out in your location (OZ)

In the real world, pair a via chipset based mobo, an athlon xp and any kind of soundblaster audio card. Then, sit down and watch your PC explode when you install WinXP! And if you wish an even bigger explosion, combine this with an ATI card...

Its sorta funny you say that...I have had VIA chipsets running with Athlons...onboard sound though.

Just lucky I guess

[jimmalenko]

The poor noobs are going to run screaming in the other direction

A few too many desperate hobo's have been PM-ing me lately. Hopefully this warns a few off

You just have to get to know me

[offline]

Jeeze... that flashing avitar gives me the royals..
I had to disable animation again just like last time when
I could swear I saw Dr Gee's thong move.

[adam]

SatStorm you are right but as you pointed out this is really a problem with the Via chipsets, not with microsoft or its operating systems. I know that doesn't help you if that is the only type of chipset readily available in your region, but the point is that Microsoft has no choice but to spread themselves very thin (its not up to them what hardware their customers choose to install) and there is only so much they can do to rectify problems in other manufacturerer's hardware and software. In this case the problem may present itself only when upgrading to the newest MS os, but that doesn't mean the os is the problem. I blame Via, not microsoft.

I guess I'm just very lucky. I run a Via chipset mobo with a soundblaster card, an ATI card, and all on WinXP. I've had this configuration for several years now with no problems, and I have always just let Update install all the latest patches and fixes as they have been released.

I wouldn't call myself a MS supporter, but I definitely don't hate them either. My point is just that there are literally about a trillion variables, any one of which can cause a problem on your pc. Its not always the os that breaks something, and even if it IS the os, I still grant them some leeway because of those trillion variables which must all be accounted for, all the while with people working behind the scenes looking to exploit any hole they can find. How do you design a product that has to do just about everything, under just about every conceivable circumstance, on just about any conceivable hardware configuration? You don't.

[Capmaster]

Jeeze... that flashing avitar gives me the royals..
I had to disable animation again just like last time when
I could swear I saw Dr Gee's thong move.

I hope that wasn't his thong ... Besides, isn't that called "wishful thinking"?

A few too many desperate hobo's have been PM-ing me lately. Hopefully this warns a few off

I completely understand. I got PMs asking for warez stuff, and the stupid posts that show up, like here:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=217807&highlight=
where we're all having a bit of fun with it, but they're not really that exaggerated. Like the guy who started a thread and put his e-mail there asking people to send him a note to find out what the problem is.

After a while it'd bring out the hostility in anyone, since it seems nobody ever reads the forum rules where it says do a little research before that first post.

[petar]

Sefy, I agree the power is (or at least should be, in a democracy) in the people, but who's WE?

Are you going to explain my father who knows dick about computers that Windows/Microsoft are a monopoly that make money and buggy software and that he should try something else. He doesn't even know he's running Windows 98. He has this nice background with four windows and a tail to the left that runs on his computer that the shop installed when he bought it. He then clicks with his mouse and something called outluk ekspres opens and he can send me emails to ask me how I'm doing. And if he wants to type some documents, some other "thing" called vord or something opens and he can write stuff. If he wants to check the latest football news, he clicks on some blue icon that says eksplorer and types www.uefa.com. And the whole thing every now and then locks so he needs to restart it. Damn computers.

All this came preinstalled on his PC when he bought it. You and I are not average users. My father is. And he is the one that is more affected by a bug in the software. I know how to fix it or find a workaround or prevent it. He doesn't.

So as to your WE forcing the whole "Microsoft monopoly" thing to change, doubt it. Unless you were thinking of creating a revolution and mobilizing everyone ? Don't get me wrong, I'm not conservative in this sense but I think there are bigger issues in my life than Microsoft. If their software gets better with time (and to me XP is way better than 95) I can live with that.

PS: IBM supports OS/2 because it has major business customers that still use it and it would be too costly for them to change OS, then rewrite all software for a new OS, go through verification testing and then modify all installations for their own customers. If it would be because of home users, they would have dropped the support ages ago. Microsoft has business customers too but they can afford to care less because of their market share. Don't think that another company in Microsoft's shoes would act differently.

[Sefy]

But that's exactly what Microsoft is counting on, that we do nothing, if you for example refuse to buy a PC with their OS, and recommand or switch other to other software competition, basicly killing off their market slowly. Cause they depend on the customers, they just take advantage of people being too lazy!

Take Europe for example!
They will not tolerate their monopoly anymore and they ARE doing something to stop it. Of course i'm one person, and you are another, and everyone is a single person, but together if we do something, we can certainly cause a heck of a damage to them. For example you can put OS/2 on your dad's PC and do a nice set up which he won't notice the difference. or Even Linux as well!

But it takes individuals to put up a fight.