Microsoft Posts Critical Patches

[vcd4ever]

I have the feeling that nobody is taken my posts seriously, but that's problably because i'm still the 95guy .

95guy.

[ROBERT BLACK]

I've applied MS updates to virutally dozens of machines and never once had a single one that crashed as a result.

I've applied MS updates to two different machines and they're were problems on both. A while back I applied an update and Explorer wouldn't boot up on me. It took some doing but I finally fixed it.


Windows XP home SP1 is not very stable. XP pro however, is quite good. At least no problems yet. Just my own experience.

[Alan69]

I've lost over 50 machines because of Windows Updates, and at work it was not even cause of any other software, cause all that was installed was Windows and the Updates! and NOTHING else, go explain that one!

Do you consider a machine with an amazing amount of hardware and firmware to be running nothing but the Windows OS? You've got dozens of things happening before your HD even starts to load Windows on your machine.. And that same variety that lets you go buy any HD you want means there will be some chance of minor conflicts and discrepancies that halt everything.

I've also had people who came over so i'll fix their PC's after a nice Windows Update which left their system unbootable.

Windows Update Crashes

There are over 8000 people reporting crashes with Windows Update, so why do I get the feeling i'm not alone ?

Not alone, but that's a statistically small number considering the huge variety of machines this is being run on. Amazing that it's only 8K having problems, course you already know this if you're a tech. And of course when MS figures the general problems they'll likely update their update, even though the problem is just as likely to be sloppy code or design on your hardware designer's part not theirs.

For those of you who think an OS is so simple, go buy a book and learn to program the Windows API, that should humble you pretty fast. If all you do is boot it up and use a few dozen programs then you don't begin to understand how complex it is, so you really have little starting point to judge how well it does the job vs how difficult the job is.. Not that they haven't released an update or two a little ahead of time in the past, but they do a remarkably good job considering.

Also just BTW most of the time I've had a kernal fault on boot like that it's been some piece of hardware or software at fault, not Windows. Course if the fault is the MB or BIOS not much you can do about it till there's an update that takes your machine into account, but may want to check for an updated BIOS in about a week. Thinking of which I need to check for one for mine to be current, haven't looked since I got this MB.

Alan

[indolikaa]

Now why y''all gotta go and bash WinME?

[BSR]

As Grandma CNote used to say, "you no like, you no gotta use".....

The past 2 companies I worked for didn't give me a choice. So I would say this statement is false.

I just installed the latest patches on Win2K and had the blue screen of death on reboot also. After Holding the power button down for 3 seconds to do a hard reboot 3 times it finally worked again, thank god.

So if you have issues just keep on rebooting
Either your finger will get sore or MS will give in.

[JohnnyCNote]

As Grandma CNote used to say, "you no like, you no gotta use".....


The past 2 companies I worked for didn't give me a choice. So I would say this statement is false.

Who made the choice, you or the company? It would appear the choice wasn't yours to make, however you apparently chose to use MS in your own machine.....

[Talon_Sr]

So that's what did it. I got the Ntoskrnl crash as well. I was just about to reformat and reinstall, but decided to do an install over top of same directory and it worked...so far. The reinstall hasn't seemed to change the registry as far as I can tell and WU still shows me as having the SP1 updates. I thought it was spyware, as it even prevented me from entering Safe Mode. I tried "readntfs.exe" to try and copy all important files over to a separate hard drive and had even hoped to copy what I thought was an un-corrupted copy of ntoskrnl.exe over from another system, but the file was close to 2MB(too large for a floppy). I thought, well, they picked a good file to sabotage. In addition, I finally burned it to a CD-RW and it would copy to Windows root but NOT /system32. It kept telling me there was an enumeration of the directory error. The "readntfs.exe" app wouldn't allow copying to another NTFS drive, just FAT formatted drives, so I was blocked here too. One last resort before total reformat remained. An install over the existing install without a change in the drive structure and to the same directory is what did the trick. I use spybot and Norton SW, so I couldn't understand how something malicious could get through so easily. I'm also on a LAN behind a firewall. And here, all along, it was the damn MS update.

[JohnnyCNote]

Please try to get this straight:

I am not responsible for whatever problems MS may cause. Take it up with them. I tried to do people a favor and pass on some news I thought would be useful and it's turned into another adolescent OS war. I, for one, can do without it.

Don't kill the messenger....

[JohnnyCNote]

If you need help go here:

Microsoft Operating Systems

and

Alternative Operating Systems

[mol3000]

well updated my win xp on one of my computers 2 weeks ago and now it wont get on the net..... so i have to reinstall da bitch......

[JohnnyCNote]

$#!+ happens....

[indolikaa]

WHAT would Johnny C-Note do?

[Sefy]

@Alan69, I consider a machine that has only NOW been installed, and the only thing that was being installed at THAT moment of time was Windows and then the updates which then ment to be followed by the rest of the installation but as soon as WU did it's course, the whole system crashed.

So don't try twisting it around saying there is a hardware problem, cause it's a known fact, most problems are software based.

Regarding the amount of people, that was a search only by google, done for just 3 words, I guarntee you that I can come up with more and more and a hell lot more results when I start going for specific problems. Oh and btw, it is also known that MOST people don't apply the Windows Updates. This is a very known FACT as MS themselfs said it

So the amount may seem small to you, but considering most DO NOT update and the fact there are over thousands of PC's which crash, then it's NOT a so small number. Someone would think of it that way, only because they are a monopoly and don't really care about individuals.

[Paul Simmel]

Having come up through the DOS days, I’ve been running Win 2k very stably for about two years. This is the first time I’ve been happy with my OS. I have always done every update with no problems. The only time I had a problem with 2k was when I added a $13.00 flashcard reader into one of the floppy drive bays. Approximately every 5 –8 times booting, I’d get the blue screen. I’d re-boot and the system would usually come up fine. I pulled the reader out and haven’t had one issue since. A friend also runs 2k, and has the identical card reader installed, and his system works just fine for him. This is obviously a hardware issue. And a little, tiny one at that.

On my last system (Win 98se) (same hardware that I have now except a new C: HDD) my system was crashing and sluggishly slow. This was due to that fact that I was hacked and had a Trojan running in the background. That Trojan remained on my newly re-formatted drive only to start screwing with me again after a complete reinstall of the OS! THAT was a software issue. As mush as I hated Win 98, I had to admit that the OS was not to blame for the crashes and sluggishness.

The reason I switched to Win 2k is because of its reputation for being very stable. And it is true; it is. But I had to search for and newly update just about every driver because Win 2k MUST have Win 2k drivers, even if ’98 drivers seem to “work”. I made the mistake of installing the copy of Winfax Pro I had been using in my ’98 setup. My system wouldn’t boot. Had to Safe Mode/Uninstall. Another software issue.

>>Sefy wrote:
I've lost over 50 machines because of Windows Updates, and at work it was not even cause of any other software, cause all that was installed was Windows and the Updates! and NOTHING else, go explain that one!

50 machines! Why is it you, and not me and so many more others? You are obviously in the vast minority. Rather than bitching about MS, getting people worried about getting their security Updates, why don’t you direct your attention toward what you have in your machines (software/hardware} that is causing your machines to crash whenever you do an Update?

>>Sefy wrote:
They got Monopoly Power, they don't care about the "little" customer. Which is why they use the tactics of "use at your own risk" on their OWN updates! I Doubt they even care about the large companies. But i'm not worried, they are going down, fact is, all their court days are far from over

After reading this last bit, I’d say you have an axe to grind.

>>Sefy wrote:
So the amount may seem small to you, but considering most DO NOT update and the fact there are over thousands of PC's which crash, then it's NOT a so small number.

How do you figure most don't update? The only reason I was reading this thread is because I found it so strange that someone wouldn't.

One last consideration: Maybe your OS disks, the ones you purchased for each of those 50 machines, have a problem. Maybe you could check with MS about that possibilty...

[Sefy]

@Paul Simmel, according to MICROSOFT it was published that the WORM that attacked so many PC's could have been prevented if people had download all the Updates which were available a few months before. Now lets review how many PC's crashed during that nice Worm attack ? billions of them ? gee now that really puts things in perspective when it comes to how many actually do install the updates.

I Don't know what you do with your systems, but after the basic installations (and I use specific drivers, I don't put 98SE drivers on 2000! I resent that!) to have a system crash into a nice BSoD because i've used Windows Updates is NOT the fault of the Hardware, or it would have crashed BEFORE the updates.

Oh really ? why is it just me ? and lots of other people I know ? the reason YOU don't know about it, is because when something works, you don't go and check out forums and groups to find out why YOUR pc crashes after an update so you don't really KNOW how many report problems, cause it is not in your interest to know.

Those who KNOW are those who DELT with it. and if I was the "ONLY" one it has happened to, they how come there are a bit more then 1 or 2 or 10 on groups which report the SAME problem as me ? oh, and you can't even blame me for THEIR problem, since we aren't evenin the same country

Interesting, so, i've used the Original CD's and everything installs fine and dandy, works smooth, no problems, but AFTER a Windows Update, I get a visit from BSoD, of course it's the CD's fault, why didn't I think of that! it's not like it was used during the Windows Update! geez man, think! logicaly!

Ok, i'll give you another nice example, around January, I bought a new PC mainboard (8RGA+) which is basicly an ALL in ONE. Installing Windows was a snatch, not a single problem, i've installed SP4 on it, still no problems, then I installed all the Original WHQL drivers for the mainboard, still not a single issue. Then since I had network access, I downloaded the WU and as the system finished and rebooted, bang! BSoD!

This has happened on the SAME day about 5 times, before I just gave up on the Windows Updates. 2 months after, I managed to do the Updates with absolutly NO problem. So what does that tell you ? That Microsoft knew of their issues, they fixed them without reporting to anyone. Which is why the Updates didn't work that day, and worked later. Nothing in the PC has changed during that period of time.

So trying to pin it on me, or on a faulty CD is a lame and pardon me, very pathetic excuse. I've got 10 years experience, which may not be a lot, but I certainly am not a "newbie" when it comes to installing an OS. I've worked in a computer store, and i've installed thousands of them, I worked in a company which I maintained all the PC's. Never had one crash for no reason, defenetly not a hardware issue.

You are like all those who haven't run into a problem, so they automaticly think "it's probably the loser doesn't know how to install" and try to pin it on him cause "it never happened to me before" but if you just check on the many forums and groups, you will see the problems are WIDE SPREAD and not due to a faulty CD or Hardware, that's just LAME excuses.

[gavmiester]

what an absolute waste of a thread for this forum. pcs and problems go hand in hand. if u are using XP and havent set up adequate restore points, well foolish you. If you are using anything earlier and havent imaged your machine, well again, how stupid are you really! There are always bound to be issues with certain updates, hence the disclaimer on each one. However, take some responsability for the cockup yourself as it could have easily been prevented in the first place. The relevance of the initial thread to this forum is tenuous at best IMHO, so why would you bother.
Time for some happy pills!

[Sefy]

@gavmiester, i've got no issues, didn't you read I have a Ghost Image ? :P
Like I would trust a Microsoft Update to actually work!

I've learned my WU lessons a long time ago, only update after a month and check forums to see what disassters may have happened to others and then RISK the update

[SatStorm]

You know which is my other hobby? Format C:

I worked with DOS, win 3.11, w95osr2, win98SE and now Win2K. I also tested winXP and for a while (2 weeks) WinME (ultimate horror! How they dared to release that shit?).
Win2K is the OS to have, expecially if you use AMD CPUs & VIA chipsets (stay away from VIA if you can). WinXP gives me nothing than troubles don't mention that my Hardware works far better with win2K than winXP.
IMHO, winXP is only good for the Americans (I used capitals! I used capitals! I'm not offencive / rasist / facist anymore!) with ready OEM PCs, from Dell, HP, etc. But if you built your own PC (as we, the Europeans, mostly do) then you have all the issues of the world!. And in short terms, Win2K offers you exactly the same as winXP and it is more stable. Don't mention that M$ have internet for granted for winXP. Well, no: It is not granted in any way. Expecially for our HCPCs, our work stations (this is how I call my - only for capture / encode - PC ) and those PCs that don't have to connect on the net for any reason.
Win98SE is also still a good choice. My only "problem" with it is FAT 32.

And, as I already said, my next move - when win2K stopped be supported - will be Linux. The future is there (and for some people I know, the present too)

[zilog_jones]

I have to say Win2k is the only M$ OS I've actually been remotely happy with too. I've installed it with SP4 on at least 3 PCs so far (two were homemade PCs), and the University of Limerick (which I go to) has at least a thousand PCs running Win2k (mostly Dells, but not crappy American Dells), and I have yet to see a BSOD! The only problems I've ever seen in uni are either hardware (you have to take into account some of these computers have been running for about 100-150 days a year for up to 6 years!) or network problems (and that's usually just broken RJ45 plugs!).

Win98SE used to crash regularly for me, but the main cause of this was probably due to two things: (i) I bought cheap RAM, and (ii) I had an ATI Rage Pro graphics card - the card with the WORST DRIVERS IN THE WORLD EVER. It regularly totally screwed up other things too, causing things like the sound and USB devices to just not run at all.

When the cursor kept disappearing in Win2k because of these god-awful drivers, I just gave up with it toally and got a GeForce2 Ti. Never had any problems since.

Not the same thing I can say for any other OS, though - I've had people's WinXPs just stop working for no reason at all

But if you built your own PC (as we, the Europeans, mostly do) then you have all the issues of the world!.

Er, I'd say most people in Europe buy OEM PCs, just like the yanks, as not everyone knows how nor wants to build their own PC. Well in Ireland anyway, so many people just go to their local computer superstore thing and buy utter, utter crap like Packard Bells and e-Machines. Others with a little more sense (though still not a lot) just buy Dells, though that's a bit biased since they're built here and (usually) someone probably knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who works at Dell and can get discounts.

[JohnnyCNote]

WHAT would Johnny C-Note do?

Let's see, make multiple back-ups, use GoBack, occasionally reformat and reinstall to clear out the junk that accumulates on the drives, keep software and BIOS up to date, read various tech websites and magazines to keep on top of what's happening. That's worked for me for the past 10 years.

Otherwise, always remember this: Individual results may vary, as the saying goes.....

[miksu]

Kinda weird someone gets upset, if warning about possible problems is posted. And real, encountered problems, not just hypothetical ones.

Fact is, updates and software is known to have bugs, but sometimes they may be serious. Other than MS software has 'em too, but this one was about MS security patch. Security patches can be considered critical ones, so one should be able to trust they work, whether it's security patch for Windows, OS/2, MacOS or Linux.

Maybe this upset c-somethin works for Microsoft?

[adam]

Exactly when and where did C-Note ever get upset? He posted an entirely innocent post regarding a company which obviously has alot of blatant enemies, and somehow he is taking the brunt of those ill feelings.

This is the latest news section and he posted something which is newsworthy to those people like myself who always install the latest MS critical updates. If this is not newsworthy to someone because they either don't use MS os'es or don't trust MS's security updates, then simply ignore this thread.

You all are seriously attacking the wrong guy. Bill Gates is in that really tall building over there.

[fritzi93]

No BSOD or boot problems here. But for the first time I had an update fail (three times) before the install went through. Very odd.

[Paul Simmel]

Sefy, you’re getting all emotional, “pathetic” this, “I resent” that.

Your approach to this problem is completely illogical. As a computer tech, and especially if you are building machines, you should be looking for what it is that YOU have which makes Win 2k burp so often. You are going to find that the vast majority of Win 2k users will likely stay with it as long as possible, precisely because it is so stable. Your problems with the Update situation seems to be vast indeed! All the more reason to look into your hardware/software, which, as a computer tech, is very likely to carry over from machine to machine to machine.

I have no idea what your initial configuration is, and I really don’t care at this point. By your arguments, you are screaming over and over again that MS is crap, it sucks, they’re going down man, they screw the little guy, man…. This is like voting for the same Party over and over who promises they’ll get those fat-cats, because it is the fat-cats keeping you down, man…. and still there are fat-cats, and still you are down, and nothing has changed except now you are REALLY, REALLY pissed off. Those damn fat-cats!

By all means, don’t change your outlook. Don’t for a second consider that you might be able to track down what is happening with your problem, and change it. Better to slam MS and stay pissed off. Don't invest the energy into what you could change on your end to get a stable series of machines. Rather than protesting against everyone who IS stable with Win 2k, why don’t you find out what hardware/software THEY have, and start making comparisons to your own setup. Seems to me you’d eventually be successful in that instead of bringing the Giant down to his knees.

[Ziffelpig]

Microsoft has definitely been lax when it comes to security, and I make no excuses for them, but updating to the latest security patch is the smart thing to do unless your into being hacked and/or exploited.
Lets face it 95% of us would not even be here reading these forums or own a PC if it wasn't for MS and their various operating systems. Before Win95 the internet was a collection of bulletin boards, corporate ethernets and University/college ftp servers, only accessible to uber geeks or people with connections or cash. So we all should be just a little thankful to Bill and Paul.
@Sefy-You have very nice bosses. If I worked in a place that had 50 pc's that died after installing a windows update, I would be asked what the hell I was doing after about the third one,and why hadn't I done some troubleshooting sooner and would have probably been fired on the spot, and then get laughed right out of the building by the other A+ techs for being a complete moron.

[Sefy]

@Paul Simmel, when you get to personal attacks, then I give "emotional" as a reply. You don't know me one bit and you come to conclusions based on basicly nothing. And again, if you tried READING not parts but the WHOLE you would have seen for yourself how WRONG you are.

Why ? because if a system works FLAWLESSLY (you read that ? I know my english isn't the best, but you should be capable of understand that word!) before a certain fix, and then DIES right after. That would LOGICLLY be the conclusion the fault is in the FIX and not the HARDWARE that keeps on stable when going back to PRE-FIX situation.

If it was a HARDWARE situation, then the problem would persist on ALL of the accounts. Also, since the problems isn't just with MY setup, but with lots of others reported all OVER the net. Then the OBVIOUS conclusion would be NOT to use a "FIX" that ends up TRASHING the system.

@Ziffelpig, I see you are as pathetic as your friend, considering you know nothing of me or the situation yet you jump to conclusions without having all the facts at hand. The PC's have an Automatic Setup of doing Updates overnight. Which strangely enough works pretty great. Also seems I was SO good at my job, they didn't bother getting any other Technicians. So I was the ONLY one doing the job on all of them.

When you have a FLAWLESSLY (do you also need explanations for that word ?) before a specific FIX and then DIE after. Well, I hope you can put two and two together and get a logical conclusion. Cause it has absolutly NOTHING to do with the PC's hardware configuration. Considering it wasn't identical in all of the PC's that crashed. But the one identical thing was, the SAME fix was applied to them. Gee, Go Figure.

Now also get your facts straight, Microsoft was the LAST to put Internet into effectiveness in ANY of their OS, even OS/2 Warp 3 had fully configured network and internet setup. Microsoft hasn't invented or pushed anything to the Internet. Only thing they did was try and get the market, which did NOT work till Windows98. And why did it work then ? because they INTEGRATED the Browser so people won't be able to get rid of it. Same thing they did in the Instant Messanger which was integrated with no uninstall option.

So don't feed garbage about what Microsoft did to PC's, if it wasn't for their monopoly, we would all be on 64bit OS's by now, and not still have users on Windows98SE or some that prefer 95OSR2! Get your Facts Straight and stop believing everything Bill Gates feeds you. Unless you are one of those who read a lie a few times and think because so many repeat the same lie then it has to be true.

[Paul Simmel]

Sefy, so you completely blew over my point and are adamantly going to stick to your approach to this problem, even with the vast majority of Win 2k users happily Updating. You said that the Auto Update seems to be working. But for some reason when you manually Update, your systems crash. I always manually Update without problems. If for some reason I started Auto Updating with system crashes, I’d get to the bottom of that (looking inward toward myself and my system).

I don’t see where I personally attacked you. I am arguing against your approach to the problem – nothing against you personally.

Also, when you say “flawless” you mean what? Flawless in that your machine doesn’t crash each time you boot???? How do you know your system is “flawless”? Like I said with my flashcard reader example, my system was also “flawless” 80 percent of the time.

Look, I’m sorry for your troubles. My comments about your attitude and approach to the problem were based on your previously stated emotional generalities about the OS – ‘going down; wont be around long; court battles aren’t over yet, etc., which you made in response to JohnyCnote’s well intentioned Update Note (this topic).

Personally I’d love a perfect OS that was rock-solid. Linux is probably the way to go in the future, though I have no experience in it myself. It’s all a matter of how you look at it. I build my pcs, so Apple is out. ITMT, as I said, Win 2k is very strong, and very secure as well. If you ever get hacked, like I did (and you might without the Updates), you will feel so violated and paranoid you’ll long for the day you got Auto Updates. Or, start working with Mac’s, or something else entirely.

I still say you should look to others who have stable machines. Find out what they have in terms of hardware. Buy a fresh off-the-shelf copy of Win 2k. Order it from the US. I don’t know about Israel, but in Eastern Europe pirated software runs in the millions. For all we know you have a bogus set of disks that have been DESIGNED to crash during Updates! These are examples of what I mean to look inward, toward you and your system/s, instead of continuously trying to force the square peg into the round hole which gets no one anywhere.

And don’t worry about your English. I’m an ESL teacher. IMO you are doing very well.

Good luck.

[Sefy]

@Paul Simmel, I think you misunderstood what I said. When I said the Auto Update worked, was ment for the previous updates, heck I did lots of manual updates that worked, but on more then one occasion I had a BSoD after an update done from Windows Update.

When I said it was working, was the updating was done automaticly that was working, What you failed to pay attention was it was a reply to the fact that 50 pc's were dead when I got there in the morning, because of the applied updated which were done. don't read part, read the whole thing and what it was referred to.

Regarding my Attitude against Microsoft, I believe it is very much justified and unfortunatly true, I do wish for them to go down and I am more then 100 percent positive it will happen. But it has nothing to do with my experience and professional nature as a technician.

Regarding troubles, I don't have any, i've got a Ghost Image, all my data is not located on the Windows Drive, so I never lose anything. Also, I have a Firewall which is thankfully not made by Microsoft and that will protect my PC much better then any of their fixes.

Lastly, when I say Flawless, I mean working for lets say 100 days without a single blue screen, no boot up failures, no restarts that weren't inititated by me directly. a PC that actually works without a single problem. and again, if the problem was with Hardware or Software prior to the update, then the problem would have been seen earlier, not just after an update.

PS: Thanks for the comments about the English part, much appriciated!
My Apologies also for getting angry, I did not like the manner which you've seemed to think of me as unprofessional and someone who does not know what he is doing.

PS2 (not sony's!): What is an ESL teacher ?

[tompika]

English as a Second Language

[Sefy]

@tompika, thank you!