Transfering from VHS to DVD, quality isn't so good, how.....

[neuz]

can I improve my quality.
I am using a Pinnacle PCTV RAVE capturing card. I have purchased the best(Monster) composite cables. I have my VHS tape player connected to my computer. I am Using Pinnacle Studio 8 (with the latest update version, I forget what the version # is). On the PCTV Rave I have it set to capture at the highest quality and I have S8 set to capture at the highest quality. I am copying a Formula One race. So there is quite a bit of fast movement. After cutting out the commercials it end up being about 1 1/2 hours long. Thus, I reduce the quality when burning to a DVD. The bitrate is still about 6000 -6500. Which I thought should be plenty. When It is done I play it in my DVD player and it seems pretty pixilated and just not good quality. My VHS tape is much better. I am not adding any menus or anything.

How can I improve the quality to be equal to the VHS tape?
I would still like to use S8. As I am a newbie to this and don't totally understand everything you guys are talking about. I do read most post and guides trying to learn but some times it's not so easy.

My computer is a P4 2.6MHZ dedicate 80 gig hard drive 768MB of RAM

Please any help would be greatly appriciated. I have a lot more to do but at this quality I don't want to spend any more time or money.

Thanks for your help,

Neuz

[thegig]

Need to cap in AVI and apply some filters to clean the video and then resize the video to 352x480(NTSC) and then convert to mpeg. Then you can pump up the bitrate to handle to motion during the conversion. You should be able to fit about two hours of excellent (garbage in garbage out) video on a DVD. IT WILL NOT BE BETTER THEN VHS. Keep in mind you will see some degradation as you are converting from one format to another. Look at lordsmurf's website, he's got a lot of good ideas! Do a seach on this site, there is NO MAGIC BULLET. LOTS OF READING is the only way Have fun.

I use a Canopus ADVC100 to cap. I run V-Dub and apply DNR, unsharp and resize(352x480) as a minimum for filters and framserve to TMPGEnc as the encoder with color correction as a filter. I encode at MPEG1 CQ 1500x2800 90% and Audio @ 48000 192. Then use DVDLAB to burn to DVD. EXCELLENT results. The format and resolution are non-compliant, but DVDLab handles it .


READ READ READ, cause there are lots of different opinions!

[macleod]

If you are wanting to get better quality with your current set up: What the previous poster mentioned is on target. Arguably, TV resolution is in the 352x480 (so called Half d1) range. If you want the BEST, you will need to capture at a higher resolution (some will argue this point) uncompressed AVI (app like iuvcr,freevcr,vdub,etc) and then use TMPGENC/CCE to encode the video to 352x480 with 48 mhz audio.

Knowing that your next post will be that there is no way to capture uncompressed AVI since as it eats up hard drive space, the trade off would be to use the huffey codec or even better as it relates to hard drive space mjpeg codec set at 18.

When you get tired of farting around with all of the possibilities from a software type capture since it will never be quite right, go purchase a hardware recorder, like the panny line (I have the E-30). I have a cheap ATI tv wonder PCI card (arguably the same level as yours) and I have done some decent captures with it. The hardware dvd recorder blows the snot out of anything you could capture with your cap card.

My only advice above and beyond that would be to go to www.lordsmurf.com and do a lot of reading (bother here and there). His guides will get you as close as you are gonna get to the ideal capture. Again, when you are done farting around with software, get a hardware recorder and be blown away (no pun intended) by the quality of the capture. I run a small business taking peoples' VHS tapes and converting to DVD. Although not technically possible, they ARE better than the VHS version (at least thats what all my customers say).

[TBoneit]

to add to what "thegig" and "macleod" said above

I use a Canopus ADVC-100, and a standalone dvd recorder, in this case Cyberhome from Walmart $248 US.

The Cyberhome was cheap, but hot running, I've now removed the cover and it is much cooler.

Ok that said. I'm now using the Cyberhome to capture from 1st Gen VHS (originals) that I had recorded and the quality is great, EP/SLP tapes look OK, but as said many times before GIGO. I capture to +RW, rip onm the computer and reauthor for good menus/editing... Gotta do a lot of editing on home movies.

Had to get a Macrovision remover for the Commercial tapes I had bought that aren't on DVD or are different on LD & Tape from DVD releases.

Tapes that need some work (filtering) to improve/cleanup I capture through the Canopus to AVI... Process and then Author.

But I can do two Tapes a evening on the Cyberhome vs 2 days a tape with the Canopus.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[SLK001]

I recently backed up a couple of 25 year-old video tapes. I captured them at 720x480 resolution using VirtualVCR and HUFFY compression, with audio dynamically resampled, just to get everything in sync and in digital form (this does NOT increase quality, but then, the quality on the tape is not lost).

There was considerable "flashing" (or flicker) in the tape, so I used a couple of AVISynth filters to clean this up (ie, ConditionalMedian and Tweak). The CM filter did an excellent job of removing the flashing. I frameserved this to CCE and am quite happy with the results. The final result to the eye is actually better than the source, but only with this extra processing.

[FulciLives]

Install the BTwincap driver which can be found here:

http://btwincap.sourceforge.net/

After that you want to use a capture program that works well with your card and that driver.

The 3 most popular seem to be (in no real order):

1.) iuVCR
2.) VirtualVCR
3.) TheFlyDS

I use TheFlyDS myself. I have a different capture card but I also use the BTwincap drivers.

Now when you capture you want to use AVI format and you need to pick a codec. Your computer is more than fast enough to use the HuffyUV codec which is preferred but it does take up a lot of HDD space. If you are short on HDD space then try the PICVideo MJPEG codec on the 19 quality setting (don't ever go below 19 on the quality level control). Make sure whatever codec you use that you capture in YUV/YUY2 colorspace.

Capture 712x480 for NTSC at 29.970fps

At this point I crop the 712 to 704 but then I add borders to it to bring it back up from 704 to 720 (Full D1 on DVD is 720x480). However for VHS you can then resize to 352x480

When you do your MPEG-2 DVD spec encoding use 352x480 with a CBR video bitrate of 5000kbps or higher if you can (as per the program length). For the audio I use 256kbps AC-3

Besides the BTwincap driver and the capture program you will need the codec of your choice. You will need something to process your capture. Here I suggest VirtualDubMod and AviSynth. For the encoder you will get best results with CINEMA CRAFT ENCODER aka CCE BASIC

Then author with TMPGEnc DVD Author and use the AC-3 plug-in to convert your audio (capture as 16-bit Stereo 48k PCM WAV) to AC-3 format.

There is an excellent capture guide on the doom9 website as well as many guides on here as well.

If you have any specific questions feel free to ask after you have "poked" around and done some reading and tried some things.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

I recently backed up a couple of 25 year-old video tapes. I captured them at 720x480 resolution using VirtualVCR and HUFFY compression, with audio dynamically resampled, just to get everything in sync and in digital form (this does NOT increase quality, but then, the quality on the tape is not lost).

There was considerable "flashing" (or flicker) in the tape, so I used a couple of AVISynth filters to clean this up (ie, ConditionalMedian and Tweak). The CM filter did an excellent job of removing the flashing. I frameserved this to CCE and am quite happy with the results. The final result to the eye is actually better than the source, but only with this extra processing.

My favorite AviSynth filter is Convolution3D ... I use it with all of my captures

And yes CCE is the way to go since there is no colorspace conversion to RGB ala TMPGEnc

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[super-G]

Just a question about using a stand-alone DVD recorder... do you have to use 2 discs for long captures, and then edit them together on the computer? Or is the lower quality mode (SP I think?) still good enough?

[mmasw]

can I improve my quality.
I am using a Pinnacle PCTV RAVE capturing card.


I have purchased the best(Monster) composite cables......
Neuz

well...if they are truly composite cables, that could be a large part of your problem. (and I doubt they are component cables even though "monster")

if your card can accept an S-Video feed you should try that and see
how much it improves your video quality

[FulciLives]

Just a question about using a stand-alone DVD recorder... do you have to use 2 discs for long captures, and then edit them together on the computer? Or is the lower quality mode (SP I think?) still good enough?

The 2 hour mode is usually pretty good but I've noticed that from some VHS sources that there will be some pixelization. Higher quality sources like LD and good quality cable TV etc. should look just fine though.

Some of the stand alone recorders allow the bitrate to be tweaked though. So if you are doing a 90 minute VHS you can set the stand alone DVD recorder to record at 90 minutes thus geting a higher bitrate than using the 2 hour 120 minute mode.

Panasonic can do this. Pioneer can do this. The new Toshiba can do this etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[downer]

At this point I crop the 712 to 704 but then I add borders to it to bring it back up from 704 to 720 (Full D1 on DVD is 720x480). However for VHS you can then resize to 352x480

Just a general question: Why resize VHS to 352X480?? Does it make a difference if you capture at 720X480 and encode to MPEG2 (DVD) at 720X480 (maybe a little cropping to make it 704).

Thanks.

[FulciLives]

At this point I crop the 712 to 704 but then I add borders to it to bring it back up from 704 to 720 (Full D1 on DVD is 720x480). However for VHS you can then resize to 352x480

Just a general question: Why resize VHS to 352X480?? Does it make a difference if you capture at 720X480 and encode to MPEG2 (DVD) at 720X480 (maybe a little cropping to make it 704).

Thanks.

You can do Full D1 (be it 720x480 or even 704x480) on the DVD from a VHS capture but then you have to use a higher bitrate to get a decent MPEG encoding.

See with Half D1 you can get away with a lower bitrate and still get a very good image. It is true that Half D1 can look a bit "soft" compared to Full D1 but would you rather have an ever-so-slightly "soft" image with no pixelization or an ever-so-slightly "sharper" image with pixelization?

Often times that is the difference.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[super-G]

The 2 hour mode is usually pretty good but I've noticed that from some VHS sources that there will be some pixelization. Higher quality sources like LD and good quality cable TV etc. should look just fine though.

Some of the stand alone recorders allow the bitrate to be tweaked though. So if you are doing a 90 minute VHS you can set the stand alone DVD recorder to record at 90 minutes thus geting a higher bitrate than using the 2 hour 120 minute mode.

Panasonic can do this. Pioneer can do this. The new Toshiba can do this etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Well, considering my source (old home movies) it doesn't have to be perfect. Just two more questions about this process:

1. Would you say that the quality is going to be better using a standalone than a capture card? I'm really just looking to have the quality be the same as the VHS, which I haven't achieved yet.

2. For editing after capturing on a standalone, what software would you use/suggest?

[FulciLives]

Well, considering my source (old home movies) it doesn't have to be perfect. Just two more questions about this process:

1. Would you say that the quality is going to be better using a standalone than a capture card? I'm really just looking to have the quality be the same as the VHS, which I haven't achieved yet.

The 1 hour mode will look about as good as you can get it. So if you only use 1 hour mode (easy to do with home videos) then you will be VERY happy with the quality. Most likely you will also be happy with the 2 hour mode. I suggest you don't go over the 2 hour mode if you can help it.

2. For editing after capturing on a standalone, what software would you use/suggest?

TMPGEnc DVD Author which can import and then allow some simple cut editing (good for trimming the start and end points for instance).

Some people also use Womble MPEG2-VCR for editing since it allows you to pretty much edit at ANY point i.e., frame that you want. TMPGEnc DVD Author will limit your editing to I-frames which only happen about once every 15 frames give or take. Still though that is accurate to about 1/2 a second when editing.

The trick is if you use a standalone then import to the computer you don't want to have to re-encode it.

So that is why TMPGEnc DVD Author is so popular. Not only is it a very good simple-to-use DVD Authoring program but it allows easy editing of imported MPEG-2 files (without re-encoding) and it is a BREEZE to set up your own chapter points.

You can also edit with Womble MPEG2-VCR without re-encoding although if you don't edit on an I-frame it will have to re-encode a few frames at the edit point but that ain't no big deal.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[super-G]

Excellent, thank you! All I would need to do is add/recreate a menu, trim the beginning and end, and put chapter stops every 10 minutes or so, so it looks like TMPGEnc will work fine.

Thanks again!

[mmasw]

[TMPGEnc DVD Author[/url] which can import and then allow some simple cut editing (good for trimming the start and end points for instance).

Some people also use Womble MPEG2-VCR for editing since it allows you to pretty much edit at ANY point i.e., frame that you want. TMPGEnc DVD Author will limit your editing to I-frames which only happen about once every 15 frames give or take. Still though that is accurate to about 1/2 a second when editing.

The trick is if you use a standalone then import to the computer you don't want to have to re-encode it.

So that is why TMPGEnc DVD Author is so popular. Not only is it a very good simple-to-use DVD Authoring program but it allows easy editing of imported MPEG-2 files (without re-encoding) and it is a BREEZE to set up your own chapter points.

You can also edit with Womble MPEG2-VCR without re-encoding although if you don't edit on an I-frame it will have to re-encode a few frames at the edit point but that ain't no big deal.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

have you ever had audio sync issues when importing a dvd folder into TDA?.....I have a couple of times, not sure why

[victor010170]

I had tested few softwares with usb2.0 and firewire, i conclude that firewire is much better. So, unless you hardware allows you to use firewire, I am not sure the qa will improve. So, I bought digital camcorder with firewire. See DV forum, there is so much to know, to learn to improve QA from vhs to dvd.

[FulciLives]

have you ever had audio sync issues when importing a dvd folder into TDA?.....I have a couple of times, not sure why

This can happen with Panny stand alone DVD recorders when using the FR mode.

Not sure why other makes might have the problem.

What are you using? i.e., model/make stand alone DVD recorder

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[neuz]

Thanks for everyones reply's!!
I have only ever used Pinnacle Studio 8. So if my understanding of some things are incorrect please forgive me. This is a great site and I'm tryingto learn.
Let me make sure I understand this correctly.


- capture from VHS to computer using Vdub capturing software and capture in AVI format.

- after doing so, run the video through a filter such as convolution3D
(is there any other filtering software that I should use)

- use TMPGEnc to encode my file. Can I pull up the file in Studio 8 and use that instead?

Based on what you guys are saying, I really shouldn't use Studio 8 anymore. Is there anything I can use it for?

Thanks again for everyones help,

Neuz

[stephenland]

One thing to check in the "Make Movie" menu of Studio 8 is to ensure that MPEG Audio is checked. This significantly reduces the file sizes and allows a higher bitrate for the video.

[georgepds]

Favorite method: buy the dvd
Second favorite method : record to Replay tv and transfer with dvarchive

I find it is very difficult to keep the A/V in sync when recording a videotape

[FulciLives]

- capture from VHS to computer using Vdub capturing software and capture in AVI format.

You should use the BTwincap driver. This works best with capture programs that are WDM native. This does not include VirtualDub. I listed 3 programs in an earlier post that work well.

- after doing so, run the video through a filter such as convolution3D
(is there any other filtering software that I should use)

You should look into using the combo of VirtualDubMod for EDITING your capture AFTER you capture. Basically you edit with VirtualDubMod and then import your edits into an AviSynth script. So you need to learn how to use VirtualDubMod for editing and Avisynth scripting for processing (including filters such as Convolution3D which is normally the only filter I use).

- use TMPGEnc to encode my file. Can I pull up the file in Studio 8 and use that instead?

CCE BASIC is better in that it is faster and more importantly your colorspace doesn't change. Captures are YUV/YUY2 which is what CCE works with. TMPGEnc must convert to RGB which is slower and causes image problems in terms of brightness/contrast etc.

- Based on what you guys are saying, I really shouldn't use Studio 8 anymore. Is there anything I can use it for?

I guess you could use it to edit your captured AVI file but if you just need basic editing like trimming the start and end point ... cutting out TV commercials etc. then VirtualDubMod is all you need and would want to use since you can import your edits into AviSynth scripting.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[hypercube]

I find it is very difficult to keep the A/V in sync when recording a videotape

I made a new freeware called Hypercube Time Stretcher to avoid this kinf of pb. It is actually in pre-release stage.

this this tool you can work on a uncompressed WAV file and apply any stretching ratio every where on it.
you can monitor in realtime with the video.

when all is ok. a final WAV file is build. then, you can use it in VDub.

http://hypercubemx.free.fr/html/hypercube_time_stretcher.html

[catdaddio6]

when will that hypercube sodtware be ready for download????sounds good

[hypercube]

may be in 3 or 4 days, I have to build the Installer.

[catdaddio6]

please post when ready,,theres alot of us vhs to dvders that it would help alot,,thanks

[hypercube]

okay, the Hypercube transcoder 1.0.0.1 is out.
check it.


this is a pre-release: no manual.

[hypercube]

oops Hypercube Time Stretcher I mean :P

[hypercube]

does anybody can tell me if my new soft is a good stuff or not ?

[SatStorm]

I'm still on vacation. I'll test it in the close future (after I re-adjust myself to real life...)