Capturing DV to External Hard Drive

[harterlynn]

Is it possible to get good DV AVI capture from my DV camcorder to an external drive without dropping frames, which I believe could be the potential problem with using an external drive? Using “Windv” as capturing software.

I’m looking into buying a Seagate ST3160024ark 160GB External Hard drive connecting via Firewire to my Laptop. (7200/8mb buffer) $215.00

(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DIFGJ/ref=ase_dealtime-ce-feed-20/1...&s=electronics)

I don’t want to capture to my 60 GB drive, just to the 160GB drive.
Not sure if the firewire connection is going to be a bottleneck (fast enough), compared to an internal hard drive connection.

Laptop:
2.8 P4 Hyper
512 MB DDR SDRAM
60 GB IDE Hard Disk
64 nVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200
2x IEEE1394 firewire connections

-Seagate ST3160024ark 160GB External Hard drive via firewire

[The village idiot]

All I can say is that some people can, and some can not. Mostly this is how I do it, but there is some software that prevents me from being able to do this (Pinnacle Studio 8). Normally I use DVIO since I don't really care about preview video, and it also lets me grab DV with my P266 laptop to my external drive. Just a cheapo CompUSA brand PCMCIA firewire card (VIA chipset). When running the Pinnacle software on my desktop, I can not capture without dropped frames. Just my nickle worth of opinion, I'm sure others will add their opinions too.

[The village idiot]

I should also add that sometimes there are compatibility issues between the firewire card, and the drive, and the DV device that can cause dropped frames. DV in and of itself does not consume enough bandwidth to present any problems to a firewire connection. DV is 25 mbps and firewire is 400 mbps or 800 mbps.

[mohammedomer1]

Hi,
I also have a laptop setup:
60gig 5400 hdd internal
40gig external pocketec hdd and 200 gig kingwin usb2.0 hdd
2500+ AMD Mobile
4-pin firewire
and 3 usb 2.0 ports
I capture tv from pinnacle DV and also from my cannon DV cam with no frame drops to my internal hdd, and either of the usb 2.0. I get NO frame drops whatsoever. I do hate the pinnacle studio. I use either DVIO, intervideo dvd recorder or mainconcept mpeg encoder to capture video. If your firewire is connected to a PCMCIA cardbus you might have problems probably since the 32bit cardbus is not capable of a lot of bandwidth. If your laptop has a built-in firewire solution like mine, chances are you will fare better - my opinion

[odyssius98]

harterlynn,

1) don't buy it from amazon. Buy it from compusa.com
There was a rebate of $70 for the 200G model, but not anymore. But even without that rebate, the 160G model costs $159. Since the order is over $150, you get penny shipping.

2) Seagate hard drive? Good choice. I was fed up with the noise and crash from Maxtor and WD (especially WD), I bought a Seagate 200G. It's awfully quiet.

3) Capturing from DV to external HD without dropping frame => sure...My computer is slow and I don't have any drop frame.

Here's my configuration:
Dell Inspiron 5000e with Pentium 600MHz
Firewire2Go pcmcia firewire card (old computer, no built-in 1394...so I have to use this)
IceCube USB2.0/1394 external box (this is the only good stuff I have since it's equipped with Oxford 911 chipset. But I also tried the other box with Prolific chipset, still no drop frame).

How do I connect?

All external firewire box has 2 1394 ports (let's call it A and B). So I connect my computer to A, and connect B to the DV cam. Easy, uh?


I also try the same thing except this time, I connect it to my desktop's no-brand 1394 card. (My desktop is Athlon 1600+.... also a so-so computer). No problem at all.


I got drop frame twice (when using my laptop to capture)
1. when I use a pcmcia wireless lan card plugged into my other pcmcia slot...and I got drop frame.
2. I got drop frame when I use one of my firewire cable (a pretty long one). After I switch to a short one, no problem at all.

BTW, I capture lots of DV tapes. I usually continuously capture until the whole tape finishes without using any timecode based or scene-based splitting. So it's always about 12G per DV tape (60 min).

Good luck.

[sitlet]

i have a compaq laptop, p4 2.4ghz, 40gb internal hard drive. i have this firewire enclosure with a 160bg maxtor:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-145-315&depa=1

i have my cam hooked up to the hard drive, then the hard drive to the computer. i use dvio to capture perfectly. never had any problems. i use adobe premiere for editing, and premiere's capture will not work with the external drive, but dvio and windv work fine for me

[harterlynn]

Thanks for all the good info, guys.

The PCMCIA card bus seems to be what will cause frame drop issues if any when using firewire in these configurations. Does a 4-pin firewire connection commonly in notebooks cause any problems? I’m not sure what is left out with the other two pins missing?

Does DVIO work better in most cases than WinDV, it seems more references are made to it as the application of choice?

Does anybody have any ideal on the max length of the firewire cable before signal lost begins? Odyssius98 you may know this.

Also Odyssius98:
1)

Don’t buy it from amazon. Buy it from compusa.com
There was a rebate of $70 for the 200G model, but not anymore. But even without that rebate, the 160G model costs $159. Since the order is over $150, you get penny shipping.

2)I looked at the site and the price is $270.00. I wish it was only $159.00. Thanks anyway. http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=307394&pfp=BROWSE

Sitlet:
1) The firewire enclosure’s look likes a great solution for those older hard drives’s I have laying around.

So, I should have a simple configuration like this:
-Connect DV Camcorder to firewire port on laptop.
-Connect External hard drive (Seagate) to Firewire port on laptop.
-Stay away from PCMCIA card bus connections.
-Use DVIO or WinDv as the capturing software.
-Capture DV AVI to the external hard drive.
-No dropped frames should be an issue.


And we all live happily ever after. 8)

[sitlet]

Does a 4-pin firewire connection commonly in notebooks cause any problems?

doesnt cause any problems for me. my cam and computer have 4 pin firewire, and the external enclosure have 6 pin. so i have a 4 to 6 pin cable from the cam to the hd, and another 6 to 4 pin from the hd to the computer, and i dont have any problems. just make sure you have the right cables.

Does DVIO work better in most cases than WinDV, it seems more references are made to it as the application of choice?

not necessarily. i like dvio better, i guess its just easier for me to use. but you might like windv better. its all a matter of opinion.

Does anybody have any ideal on the max length of the firewire cable before signal lost begins?

im not sure. i have some 4 ft and some 6 ft cables, and i dont notice any difference.

So, I should have a simple configuration like this:
-Connect DV Camcorder to firewire port on laptop.
-Connect External hard drive (Seagate) to Firewire port on laptop.

this will work if you have 2 firewire ports on your computer. my laptop only has one 4 pin port, and my enclosure has 2 6 pin ports. so my setup is: cam->hdd, hdd->computer

[odyssius98]

1) About the price of the HD you are looking for, SORRY....., my bad....I thought you were looking at the internal drive. I am not sure what kind of chipset those "pre-packing" external drive they will give me, so I always buy the internal drive then buy the external box and assemble them myself.

2) About the length of the firewire cable: I just happen to try one of my cable and drop-frame happens, and that cable seems to be the longest of all my firewire cable. Maybe it's not the problem of the length, probably it's the quality of that cable. Anyway, just give you a hint if you really cannot find anything wrong with your configuration to cause the drop-frame, try change the cable.

3) I have 2 PCMCIA slot in my laptop. The drop frame occurs when I uses both of them at the same time. (one of them for 802.11g and the other one for firewire cardbus) If I use the firewire only, drop-frame never occurs.


I still recommend you to reconsider buying that "pre-packing" box. As I mentioned before, the chipset inside the firewire box is very important. The performance can vary from 10s Mbytes/sec to 30x Mbytes/sec. Try to pick one with Oxford 911 chipset inside.

[cbkilner]

If both of your 1394 ports share a bus, you will be screwed. The camera is a 100Mbps device and will slow down everything on the 400Mbps bus...and you will get dropped frames.

[The village idiot]

If both of your 1394 ports share a bus, you will be screwed. The camera is a 100Mbps device and will slow down everything on the 400Mbps bus...and you will get dropped frames.

Which is why I put the DV device at the end of the chain, and even then 100mbps should be fine for the 25mbps data rate of DV.

[cbkilner]

That will usually work if you have a very good bridge chip in the FW case (Oxford 911/912), but most other chips won't work (in my experience), especially the FW/USB2 cases with Initio chips.

The external Seagate drive mentioned above supposedly uses an Oxford 911: http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/faq/external_chip.html