Newbies, foul-mouths, and flamers!

[Will Hay]

I have long since advocated the use of yellow cards for those who goad and bait the newbie into tripping up, the ones who smell warez and then provoke an admission only to run to the complaints thread to make a post (and not before slamming this poor bastard in the initial thread).

Warez doesn't belong on here at all.
You think people should be warned for getting newbies to admit warez?
Newbies agree to the rules here before they post.
I see "NO WAREZ" quite clearly on the rules and all over this site.
If they trip up, they should get flamed and reported.

Thank you for missing the entire point.
Will Hay

[richdvd]

Yeah, and what point is that?

[Will Hay]

JESUS CHRIST!
Okay, just for you dvdperson.
What gives you the right to assume these downloads are illegal?
That is not your job.
Until Baldrick deems you fit for such a purpose it's none of your business, get it?
I've been here long enough to know what goes on, the moderators know what go on and Baldrick knows what goes on.
The simple fact is you don't discuss it, period.
The site is here to assist you, amongst other things, in converting downloaded clips to watch on your standalone.
If you feel the AUP is being broken report it.
Simple (the premise, not you, I think).
Will Hay

[jaxxboss]

Sorry people, but when I fart on a post it means that the thread has drifted off so bad and it is pretty much useless to go on.
This thread has recieved a fart and therfore should be done with.

[Supreme2k]

Even the low-level flames in this thread were enough to burn off your fart

I agree half with Will and half with rich.

Yes, you shouldn't "double dip" and report someone after flaming them. If you want to get them "out of the closet", that's fine if you don't "double dip".

As for the downloading: If it looks like a duck, walks like one, etc. Most people who write "I have downloaded a DVD image, how do I burn it?" or "I downloaded episodes of a show", they're pretty much talking about warez. It's a sad, but simple fact most of the time. If someone wants to call their bluff, I see nothing wrong, as it is that person's opinion.

On that subject, every post should be taken as opinion. No one should ever have to say "In my opinion..." on a message board. If someone wants to go into "factual" territory, that is when they should say so and cite proof.

[Will Hay]

You're quite right supreme50c, and your double dip point is well made, but the simple fact is that if people didn't goad/bait then these threads wouldn't generate into the flames they do, which also contravene the AUP.
You know me as well as anyone and we're pretty much the same in that if we have an opinion we give it, but there's a line, and newbies are over it.
Idiots aren't, I enjoy those.
Will

[Supreme2k]

So then, what's your view on people who report threads after they've been locked? Sounds like triple (quadruple?) dipping.

[jaxxboss]

Can I report someone that is flaming a locked thread ?

[toronto098]

I tend to get annoyed by people that are here to prove everybody wrong. I have my own list of people I prefer to not talk to, and outright refuse to help (mostly because they'll want to merely disagree and ignore the advice they are given).

The nice people that need help and appreciate it are the majority, and ones I enjoy dealing with.

Second that.

[indolikaa]

On that subject, every post should be taken as opinion. No one should ever have to say "In my opinion..." on a message board. If someone wants to go into "factual" territory, that is when they should say so and cite proof.

And this is another area where some pretty vicious flames have erupted.

Yes, there is no secret, if 'you' (we'll define 'you' as being any poster, not a specific individual) claim something to be fact, I might just walk in and challenge 'you' to prove it. Does anybody remember Naked Geek? I'm still waiting for BLER test results to prove those discs performed in a manner consistent with what he claimed.

My favorite is, of course, people who have BS (Bull Shit), MS (More of the Same) and PhD (Piled Higher and Deeper) and use that to explain why they know everything. Such 'claims' are, quite often, completely irrelevent to any discussion or argument that has to do with this hobby. Why? Because a majority of what is done here is subjective in nature. Theory is all fine and dandy, but reality is often a completely different animal. People say knowledge is power. I say bullshit, experience is power. Knowledge is that which is gained through experience, not vice versa.

And I'd like to add something regarding Will Hay's thoughts.

If somebody posts along these lines: "Hey all, I just downloaded the Passion of the Christ and need help converting the XviD file to SVCD," they will get my standard 'Dumbass' response because they've earned it. Period. Whether or not they are adults, they entered into an agreement with Baldrick concerning their conduct on this site. And if they are too ******* stupid to read the rules or choose to ignore them, I have no sympathy for what comes their way.

I understand it's the moderators' job to enforce the rules and discipline accordingly, but what about my right to speak my mind, or to formulate an opinion on the matter?

Now, if somebody simply says: "Hey all, I downloaded an XviD file and I'd like some pointers on how to convert it to SVCD," they may get a much more detailed response than a simple 'Dumbass' and it's not because I think they're warez pirates. It's because they are freeloading! A post like that just screams, "I want somebody to hold my dick and walk me through every single step because I'm too lazy to try and learn anything on my own!"

I have mixed feelings after reading Will Hay's concerns. It cannot always be assumed that all downloaded material is warez. Hell, I've received home video footage from clients via the Internet. Does that make me a warez pirate? But Good God, sometimes it is so obvious that it just screams for attention...

Just some idle thoughts...

[tekkieman]

My favorite is, of course, people who have BS (Bull Shit), MS (More of the Same) and PhD (Piled Higher and Deeper) and use that to explain why they know everything. Such 'claims' are, quite often, completely irrelevent to any discussion or argument that has to do with this hobby. Why? Because a majority of what is done here is subjective in nature. Theory is all fine and dandy, but reality is often a completely different animal. People say knowledge is power. I say bullshit, experience is power. Knowledge is that which is gained through experience, not vice versa.

I was just about to stick my foot in my mouth before I reread your statement....I am more than happy to bring up my BS because I have earned it. I do not bring it up "and use that to explain why I know everything". Mainly because I don't know everything. What I learn far outweighs what I know.

So in effect, I guess I agree with your most of your statement.... except on a couple of small issues. First, (not saying you did) often times the people who slam the people with degrees is because they do not have them and are jealous. We do not all use them to prove anything, other than we have the drive and desire to continue the learning process. Second, I do not believe that either knowledge or experience is power. I do believe that once you have knowledge and experience, what you do with it could earn you power.

[indolikaa]

I was just about to stick my foot in my mouth before I reread your statement....I am more than happy to bring up my BS because I have earned it. I do not bring it up "and use that to explain why I know everything". Mainly because I don't know everything. What I learn far outweighs what I know.

So in effect, I guess I agree with your most of your statement.... except on a couple of small issues. First, (not saying you did) often times the people who slam the people with degrees is because they do not have them and are jealous. We do not all use them to prove anything, other than we have the drive and desire to continue the learning process. Second, I do not believe that either knowledge or experience is power. I do believe that once you have knowledge and experience, what you do with it could earn you power.

The BS/MS/PhD comment was not aimed at you. You did not come into this forum and use that argument to propogate the belief that you are right and everybody else is wrong. You voiced your concern and formulated opinions from those concerns.

Trust me, tekkieman, when I've got something to say regarding the behavior of somebody, I will name names.

I don't think it's jealousy so much. I have ranted here before about a previous job I had in which I regularly disciplined and fired people with MS and PhD degrees. My experience in that job taught me that the 'underlings' despised these people not because they had a college education, but because they showed no respect for the 'blue-collar' worker and his/her abilities and/or knowledge.

[Will Hay]

...often times the people who slam the people with degrees is because they do not have them and are jealous.

I prefer to keep my qualifications private, and (if deemed necessary by the many thousands of members on this forum) be judged on my measured contribution to the board.
Again, the judgement doesn't concern me in the slightest, but it's all I wish to be measured against.

So then, what's your view on people who report threads after they've been locked? Sounds like triple (quadruple?) dipping.

Triple dipping?
You mean flaming in the thread, then reporting, then reporting after locked?
I've never seen that happen, what are you referring to?

My experience in that job taught me that the 'underlings' despised these people not because they had a college education, but because they showed no respect for the 'blue-collar' worker and his/her abilities and/or knowledge.

Will Hay

[andydd]

What I have found annoying in the past is when someone has posted for example. 'I have downloaded a film and its Avi and I wish to turn it into an Mpeg, how do I do this ?' and then all the replys soley deal with the sentence 'Ive downloaded a film' and then proceed to waffle on about how naughty Warez is when that sentence is pretty irrelevant (its just a bit of background information) and the actually question is how to turn an Avi into an Mpeg.

Of course people should be warned if they ask something like 'how can i download copies of newly released films' but not if they just mention that they downloaded a film which may or may not be illegal.

On another note i found it quite amusing that Warez is frowned upon so strongly and that copying (or the rather amusing term 'backing up') a DVD is quite ok, I know personally from a legal point of view both are equally illegal for me to perform (im based in the UK).

[Fluffbutt]

As long as someone is capable of helping themself, I'm always happy to oblige.

Excellent point. I agree with that.

Oh yes!, I'll agree with that one - even in real life....

andydd - that warez/copy dvd thing has amused me from the start. it's the same in other forums.. ok to 'backup' a dvd, but not ok to warez the dvd2one program to do it (not that that program is any good.. LOL).

[lordsmurf]

My favorite is, of course, people who have BS (Bull Shit), MS (More of the Same) and PhD (Piled Higher and Deeper) and use that to explain why they know everything.

HEY! YOU LEFT ME OUT!
I have a B.A. ... what does it stand for ?

I don't know what other people use their degrees for, but mine looks pretty and takes up space on the wall in my home office.

[Will Hay]

HEY! YOU LEFT ME OUT!
I have a B.A. ... what does it stand for ?

Biggest Arsehole I guess

[Kingnog]

Hah!

[SatStorm]

Now, let me talk about that. I do have the right I believe...

There are few reasons why those things happens . Some are innocent, some are not...

Let me count some:
This forum has "newbie" and "advance" sections. The problem rise because "newbies" believe that asking at the "advance" forum, gonna have a better answer. What they succeed is the opposite - and with a good reason. Because I'm objervating this years now (maybe I'm the longer user around...), I have to say that flames usually happens when a "newbie", which also happens to be a spoiled teen (or look so) post "newbie" stuff on the advance section. The new enthusiasts who post on the correct newbie forum, won't end up get flamed, that's for sure.

This hobby, this scene, whatever you want to call it, is very specific. If you are interest about those stuff, soon or later you gonna learn them all. Now, there are 2 kind of people: Those who want to do their job done and those who want the same AND learn the latest news about it. Statistically, the first kind of users, are the ones who search alternative subjects to post in the forum, before they left it behind, after they learn how to do the job. There also the ones who also flames others before, just for the fun of it, or to give themselfs a reason to move on. Unfortunatelly, the nature of the forum we have here, won't interest for long those who belong to the second party. And as you already saw, plenty of our members are now to doom9 forum (and some of them on Kwag's forum), because there, they feel that they gonna learn something more that what this forum here can offer to them. Unfortunatelly, the so many "how to" of this forum, plus the fact that WE DO HAVE a newbie section here, make those former VCD help users which are capable to make their own software for our hobby, won't present, develope and talk about it, here. They prefer to talk about it in a more "advance" cyberspace, and undfortunatelly for us, the VCDhelp members, Doom9 now has this reputation, while we have the "newbie / entry / how to" site reputation. The fun thing is that if you read the doom9 forum, you gonna notice that only specific things are really advance there, mostly about technical details of our hobby or new software / ideas about it. Our forum has more to offer in general terms to the advance users, but somehow, we manage not to show it, while doom9 do show it, and very succesfull I have to admit.

Doom9 did a "clever" thing also, which is the reason I'm not there as an active member: Devide the site to local versions. Even a Greek version exist there for example. So, the original pure version, is now an english speaking community, with no international flavor. And if you read about it, you gonna see that it turns american day by day and fast (except the references they have to the German section mostly).
This forum here from the other hand, this site here overall, is true international place, even if some moderators / users forget about it and the last six months act different (https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=217106&start=25)

And this international thing, rise problems like:

- We have to learn each other.
- We have to learn how to communicate (I pissed of plenty of times in the past, from common daily US expressions americans use, which when I translate them direct in my language, end up insults of huge size - and vise versa: I expressed things in English that looked like a huge attack to certain members, but it was a common translation mistake from me...)
- We must respect the others. Even if we don't like them (I don't like plenty others, after all, I live in that area of the world called Balkans)
- We have to realise that we are not the center of the world (a problem the US members have really for huge).
- We have to realise that here we talk International (AKA bullshit) english and not UK / US one. This is also a great problem for you, the native english speaking users, because you see your language butchered all the time (expecially by users like me, self learned english - never went to school), but to understand the difficulty we have with your language, just think the opposite: How would YOU expressed in Greek for example? German (which is most common)?

I have to say a great objervation I have done the last year, which gonna make you think a lot about it.
When I first arrived here, this was a trully international site and half of the users (moderators included) was from various countries. The reason I liked the place was that: It was international, I didn't have to give exams in english each time I had to post something and I didn't feel that it is occupated by a specific party. It was a cyber place which people from all around the globe, loved that hobbie and wished to share this with others, beyond country / language / historical / racial boarders.
But the last 2 years, something wierd happened: The site "hits" increased from outside USA / Canada / UK, but not the posts! I mean, where are the German users? The Italians? The French? We talking about countries with amazing knowledge in our hobby. The best freeware programs of our hobby are made in Germany, and I know for real, that this site is well known to them. So, where are those people?
And it gets worst: The last year, this site is less international - in expression- and more USA-centric than ever! Even if the site hits are more today from Europe than USA, when I read the posts here, I feel that I'm somewhere in Ohio, watching cowboys learn about mpeg.
And I'm 100% certain, that ALL the non USA and non english native speaking users, feels the same like me. We are the majority here, and you make us look minority. The way I see it, we have a problem here...

******** like the ones I have attecked the last months (including a well known in the scene advance user who, had offered some things in this hobby but most of the time simply "shows" himself with his ass kicking english of the same things he post all the time years now....), manage to terrorise us, the much more than you, international non native english speaking users, in a point that we afraid to post anything! And I know, because I receive plenty emails all the time from Europeans and Asians, desparate for help, asking me things about this hobby, which are easily covered in the forum. And when I suggest them a forum post, they reply me very honestly "I english no good, can not understand replies easy".
Don't mention the US typing slang we have to learn so to understand you sometimes (Example of a PM I recently receive: "U m8, IC U know shit, how I can **** DSS and copy that shit? I wish turn a Playa on DVD rip". Now please point me a school to learn modern English, because the ones I learned from MTV Europe 17 years ago, seems long outdated...)

Personally, I am almost ready to stop posting here and move to other forums, because I don't like the how US-centric this place turned the last year. After all, let's be honest: Show me non USA members causing trouble here, except me of course. It is not that I have anything against the americans users. After all I have plenty friends from USA and I'm very US friendly in person, despite the fact that I show almost a US hater at times from my posts. But when well known and realy good and helpfull american members of this scene, like friendly SHS, reply me with a phrase like "you SatStorm live in that Europe thing", I start thinking that my time here is almost over. This is not the international friendly forum I remember. Is an american ghetto, which I don't like to support at all.
And I know many european users did exactly this, and that explains why they left the place or they never post a thing. And they don't even bother to explain it further...

I have plenty other reasons to post about the situation today here, but this reply of mine already turned huge. So, I stop it here.
Meanwhile, I expect the same "no reaction" I receive the last months when I discuss those subjects. Like my replies and opinions don't count, because I'm not American and my english stinks. Well, you might have right. But in that case, turn dvdrhelp.com to dvdrhelp-usa.com . Because soon or later this is how it gonna lead this attitude that rises around.

[Cobra]

my english stinks

After all that, I don't think it stinks. In fact, if I could speak a foreign language that well, I'd be damned proud of myself.

Cobra

[fritzi93]

So, Satstorm, would it be preferable for people to make more of an effort to use proper English?

When I finished my schooling, I had a barely passable Castilian Spanish, "proper" Spanish. To communicate with a native Spanish speaker was surprisingly difficult, as I had no clue as to everyday Spanish, especially when spoken rapidly. And from lack of use over 30+ years, you might as well say I don't understand it at all anymore.

Anyway, you make a good point. People for whom English is not their native language should not be driven away. Let's not ridicule them, and I for one admire them for trying. (Sometimes it is very funny, though).

[SatStorm]

If we, the europeans (not UK included), start having fun with what you, the americans, post at times, we gonna end up not talking for mpeg 2 at all. You won't like it, I bet you gonna really embarassed of how you look to us.

Also, why you have it for granted that WE have to effort better english skills? After all, this is a language we use only rarelly and this is an international forum. You can't get it, right?
You do exactly the same mistake all the americans do. Sorry but, the whole world won't turn USA you know, just because that it is easier for you, or because it is what you wish to do.
No: You are in an international forum, so the correct thing is us - the non americans- to became more americans and you - the americans - to became more europeans/asians/africans/australians/antarticans etc.
But I bet you don't even bother thinking that option. It take so much effort for you, right? And you are not used to take efforts at all

Or, to put it different, you have to try to understand us as we do all the time with you. Currently, you demand only the opposite: Us, to understand you.
If that is not selfish, then what is, I say...

[indolikaa]

Oh, I don't know about that.


For me, it's easy to spot our non-English friends because of the order in which they put their words. They get the spelling right and the idea is there, they just put the words in the wrong order. Maybe it's just me, but I can see them from a mile away. But I can understand them just fine.

The people I have a problem understanding are 1) the ones that speak in SMS (we call it Text Messaging here in the US) and 2) skater-talk. SMS isn't as popular over here so I'm just not used to it, and skater talk is hard for me to follow because there's no punctuation. The words just keep running and running and running.

The ones I have no sympathy for are those people who exhault their educational status upon others but can't spell. If you're going to tell me I don't know what the **** I'm talking about, at least spell the words right while you're doing it!

@SatStorm,

How's the hangover?

[Gazorgan]

Maybe it's 20 years of an Amature Radio license, as well as being on the Internet over 7 years, but I ignore poor language. I do try and not use slang and epitaths, since it never translates well. I don't pay too much attention to spelling (although I do try and spell correctly, it makes translations esier if I spell it right).

I'm quite aware how Americans think of themselves. I'm more learned and traveled than most, so I take a slightly different view. But, Europeons have to take it in perspective. It goes back 250 years. Our 'states' are as big as Europeon coutries. California has the 5th largest economy in the world, and it's just 1 of 50 states. Combine with the prevalance of Socialism abroud and you can get a better perspective on the American atitude.

In truth, Americans don't give a rat's ass (use litteral transaltion) about Europe. 98% will never travel there, and except for certain fashion appereal, no one buys anything from there.

[Paul Simmel]

SatStorm,

One thing would help: Try putting a capital "A" in front of America, same as you did for:

>>Canada / UK, but not the posts! I mean, where are the German users? The Italians? The French

The above quote shows you know how to do it. I think your attitude comes through very well, and may be the problem more than the English skills.

[SatStorm]

I'm OK now, 2 days ago it was really - and I mean really - bad!

Yeah, you are right about the word order. You see, this is a limitation of the english language! We have to develope an english instict about the correct order of the words, a limitation that doesn't exist on plenty other languages. For example the German based ones, don't mention mine. Maybe that explains why it is so difficult for most people to learn Greeks, Germans and Japanish, while it is easy to learn Italians and Spanish.

BTW: Tommorow I gonna burn that VCD we were talking about. It is still Easter here (we celebrate easter almost 2 weeks in Hellas), so I didn't yet burn it on disc.

About the capital letter of america. In the same post also write "europeans". I give capitals only on countries, not on general terms like "american" "european", "asian". When I say americans, I mean North Americans mostly (USA/ Canada).

OR this is another example of a selfish approach that "Americans" are only USA?
No: americans for us are all the North America countries: USA, Canada and the Indians (indepentent selfheaded nation and country, inside USA from what we teached in our schools and seems to forget there). Yes, I do know the term "native american" which you use there, but this is a word existed only in US. For us, there are Indians

[indolikaa]

I'm OK now, 2 days ago it was really - and I mean really - bad!

Yeah, you are right about the word order. You see, this is a limitation of the english language! We have to develope an english instict about the correct order of the words, a limitation that doesn't exist on plenty other languages. For example the German based ones, don't mention mine. Maybe that explains why it is so difficult for most people to learn Greeks, Germans and Japanish, while it is easy to learn Italians and Spanish.

BTW: Tommorow I gonna burn that VCD we were talking about. It is still Easter here (we celebrate easter almost 2 weeks in Hellas), so I didn't yet burn it on disc.

That makes sense to me!

A long time ago in a university far, far away, I was good enough in Russian to be labeled a communist sympathizer. Russian itself is easy because the words are phonetic, but the grammatical structure is fucked up! People could understand me and my intent, but I sounded like a drunk because order words my proper in weren't the.

Something I remember from high school. I took Latin for three years. By the end of the third year I was amazed at how well I could understand other languages, like Spanish. But what stunned me was I could actually understand Romanian enough to conceptualize what was being said. But alas, there's another language I stopped using, and now remember all of about 10 words.

Two weeks of Easter? Damn, I'll be those bunnies get tired of laying eggs don't they?

[Will Hay]

The day you leave Sat would be a very sorry one indeed.
Will Hay

[Will Hay]

About the capital letter of america. What exactly you mean?

Our misguided friend thinks that by typing america and not America you are being disrespectful
Will

[offline]

@ Satstorm

I *know* exactly how you feel. Imagine a post asking how much
something cost or where can I get such and such in the old vcdhelp.com.
These days the poster just assumes everyone is in mainland US of A
like him. It is a type of barrier US citizens do better at constructing
than any other nation - but few realize it and even less understand it.
Let me quote a little conversation I had recently.

She: I'm not a foreigner
ME: You are to me, just like I am to you. In each other eyes we are
both foreigners.
She: I'm not foreign, I'm American

nuff said.

The ones I have no sympathy for are those people who exhault their educational status upon others but can't spell. If you're going to tell me I don't know what the fickle I'm talking about, at least spell the words right while you're doing it!

@ that indolikaa fellow:

Hey!

There are lots of us native English speakers who cannot spell
but have managed to get a few letters after our names.
You do not know what you are talking about!

Offline BSc (Bronze Swimming Certificate)