Which PC should Capmaster build?

[Capmaster]

I'm about to throw together a new PC for my video capping and authoring. My existing laptop is showing signs of age. It's doing funny things and the keyboard bit the bag long ago - I'm using an external KB. It's a Compaq Presario 1700TW, P3-M 1.13GHz, 20GB. I've been using it as my main capping machine and have an IDE firewire enclosure with my LF-D311 burner in it. The burner will go to the new machine.

I'm hooked on the U320 SCSI/15K RPM drive. I have a Seagate 36 GB at work on my Hp xw6000 Workstation that's insanely fast and it's also very quiet. But it's not practical to get one for a P4 CPU (the PCI-X MB issue).

My problem is I can't decide which approach for my new machine. No Mac or Athlon for me ....I'm strictly an Intel guy. And also, only Tyan MBs for me I'd like opinions since board members here have loads of experience with video work and also PCs. Here are my four finalists:

1)
Tyan Trinity i875P MB (Graphics,SATA,USB2, Gb&100/10 LAN, IEEE1394,Audio,Winbond HW Mon.)
P4 3GHz Prescott
Seagate 160GB 7200 RPM SATA
54X CD-RW (Toshiba, I think)
Corsair 512MB DDR-400
Mid-tower case/PS/floppy
17" LCD - Acer/Benq FP731
Wireless PCI 802.11b card
Cost: $1,148

2)
Tyan Tiger i7501x MB (Graphics,U320 SCSI, USB1.1, Gb&100/10 LAN, Winbond HW Mon.)
Xeon 2.4 GHz (HT) 533 FSB
Seagate 73GB U320 15K RPM HD
Kingston 512MB PC2100 DDR
54X CD-RW
Antec Plus1080AMG Tower case
17" LCD - Acer/Benq FP731
Wireless PCI 802.11b card
Cost: $ 1,449

3)
Tyan Tiger i7501x MB (Graphics,U320 SCSI, USB1.1, Gb&100/10 LAN, Winbond HW Mon.)
Xeon 3.0 GHz (HT) 533 FSB
Seagate 73GB U320 15K RPM HD
Kingston 512MB PC2100 DDR
54X CD-RW
Antec Plus1080AMG Tower case
17" LCD - Acer/Benq FP731
Wireless PCI 802.11b card
Cost: $ 1,684

4)
Tyan Tiger i7501x MB (Graphics,U320 SCSI, USB1.1, Gb&100/10 LAN, Winbond HW Mon.)
Xeon 3.0 GHz (HT) 533 FSB w/ 1MB L2 Cache
Seagate 73GB U320 15K RPM HD
Kingston 512MB PC2100 DDR
54X CD-RW
Antec Plus1080AMG Tower case
17" LCD - Acer/Benq FP731
Wireless PCI 802.11b card
Cost: $ 1,958

I've been advised by a PC guru at work that the Xeon excels at video encoding. Am I going in the wrong direction leaning towards a Xeon, and is a P4 the best choice here? Help me decide how to spend my money

[rallynavvie]

Xeons are still tops for video workstations. However all the Tyan dual boards for Xeons are server chipsets. You'd get better results if you went with a workstation board. I, too, am building a new Xeon rig to replace my aging Tyan Tiger. I love Tyan boards also, but I wanted an 875 chipset for a new video workstation. I'm looking at the Iwill DH800 and the Asus PCH-DL. If you want something now (the other boards aren't released here yet, though the DH800 is due out next week in the US) the Iwill DP533 is good for all the 533 Xeons.

You will also want to wait until June since Intel is going to be cutting prices on current Xeons drastically. This is likely due to the upcoming Nocona release (800 FSB Xeons with 64-bit extensions). Don't get the Prescott Xeons, they've earned the nickname PresHotts because they run really hot. Prestonia and Gallatin cores are the better ones. Look for M0 CPUs as they're the most stable and able to OC if you want to. Otherwise wait and see what the Noconas are going to be like. Only the DH800 will support the Noconas officially but I'm sure more boards will support them when they're released. The DH800 has dual 4-phase VRM on it so I'm leaning toward that one for the moment. The only thing the PCH-DL has over it is one more 32-bit PCI slot. Both have AGP and PCI-X (Hance Rapid SB). For video you're going to want an AGP slot still. PCI-X and PCI-E video is still a bit into the future.

[Capmaster]

Rallynavvie,
Thanks. I haven't checked out Iwill MBs yet. Do you have any experience with those? I'll check them out and the Asus too. The MB is so important to the performance.

I've been a fan of Tyan since they came out with the only AT-footprint dual Pentium Pro board, which I bought as an upgrade for my old Micron chassis (mid-'90s here). Before that I was a Micronics loyalist.

I've considered waiting for the 64-bit extension Xeons because that always drives down the other prices. I'm not sure I want to wait until June or July though. You know how it is when you get bitten by the new-PC bug

Edit: Checked the Iwill website but they don't list any suppliers for the states. Also, the DH800 doesn't offer U320 on-board. A separate controller will run me at least $250 for an Adaptec. Ouch!

[rallynavvie]

The 7501x has 2 64-bit PCI slots. It has an 8MB Rage video card integrated. No audio, USB 2.0, or FireWire. It's a server board, and a damn good one. However you'll probably want FireWire for a video machine, and probably USB 2.0, so there is one PCI slot for a combo card. You'll also want sound I'm assuming so there's the other, or you can spend a lot on the SB Plat (which has a flaky driver for SMP keep in mind) with FireWire on it and forego USB 2.0. Then you need to find a good PCI video card since the 8MB Rage won't help you too much. Better off getting the board with all that built in and spend the cash on a good video card and an Adaptec 39320 (which you can find on eBay new for sub-$200).

I'm leaning toward the Iwill for a few reasons. They use an 8-layer PCB, dual 4-phase VRM, and apparently really good BIOS options. Drawbacks are that it has 4 PCI slots (2x 32-bit, 2x 64-bit) and no USB 2.0 headers for front ports. That's pretty much all I can think of. The pros far outweigh the cons for me.

I also wouldn't rely on SCSI for everything. I've already had both my Seagate Cheetahs die on me. Sure I got new ones in a few weeks because they're warranteed but I'd be without a PC if they were my only boot drive. I use mine for scratch space when editing. I'm going to use a WD Raptor 10krpm SATA drive for my boot drive and see what that's like.

I still suggest waiting for June. Info on the cost-cutting is pretty reliable. Then you can get the 3.2 GHz ones for the cost of the 3.06s likely. I know how hard it is to wait, I've been waiting months now for stuff and I'll be waiting even longer for the chips. Fortunately I got RAM before the prices on that went through the roof

[indolikaa]

I like #4 myself...

[Capmaster]

rallynavvie,
I appreciate all your help. I checked out the Iwill site and they do make a nice-looking MB. They're not cheap, but I'm intrigued that they have a board listed as "workstation", where the others seem to be server boards, including Asus. I never thought there was much of a difference, but now it seems to me that the 875 chipset makes more sense for me.

I especially don't like paying for a gigabit and a 100/10 ethernet capability when all I will be using the LAN connection for is mapping the other PC's drive for Nero burns from it to the burner. 100B-T is plenty fast for my old 1X burner. I have a wireless LAN at home for the web. And it also seems like little attention is paid to the graphics, since servers aren't usually used for much more than diagnostics and other low-stress apps.

I tried using Sandra to check on my MB here at work to see what they're using. It has a Prestonia Xeon. It seems to be an HP proprietary MB and chipset though. :P

Got an interesting result - the HD outperformed a RAID0 UATA drive array. My Sandra is too old to compare to SATA. Love that 15K HD!

Thanks for your input indo That's the one I was drooling over too. I figured since we have the same taste in weapons, we'd favor the same PC

Bottom line, I might as well wait to see what happens after the Nocona arrives. But it's still fun shopping around and getting advice from others here

[rallynavvie]

The DH800 also has Intel CSA GbE so if you're using a wired network connection the controller doesn't go through the PCI bus first, it goes directly to the MCH so network access doesn't bottleneck at the ICH with all the drive activity. This controller is only available to the 875 chipset. Just a little tidbit I just learned last night.

If you're interested at all in OCing the DH800 also has loads of OC options built into the BIOS. People are getting their M0 stepping Xeons up to 1 GHz FSB on the thing already with conventional cooling (no stability testing just yet). Personally I favor stability over more power, but with how simple the DH800 makes it I may just tweak the machine a little

If you're itching to get things started do what I'm doing and buy things as you realize you need them. Unfortunately you missed the boat on RAM, that stuff is just going to get more expensive as the year goes on. Rumor has it the DH800 goes on sale next week here in the US and that NewEgg will likely be carrying it; if you're interested. As far as CPUs go a lot of benchmarks show the chips with big on-die cache don't perform that much better than those with say 512k L2. I think the price cuts at the end of May will make those more affordable though, and the lesser ones even more affordable. I'm still planning on getting Noconas unless I hear a lot of nasty things about them before they're out. 800 FSB out of the box sounds kinda nice, especially when you've got two of them

[indolikaa]

Thanks for your input indo That's the one I was drooling over too. I figured since we have the same taste in weapons, we'd favor the same PC

If they ever have a processor that they codename Davy Crockett...


I like that setup because the 'Bang for the Buck' factor looks good on that 1MB cache. I'm never one to pass-up spending a little extra money for more horsepower when the opportunity presents itself. I am and have always been a Tyan and Iwill fan, but I do like Asus as well.

rallynavvie knows his shit straight up when it comes to Intel-based workstations and such. Heed his words, O Vinyl One.

[Capmaster]

Thanks for your input indo That's the one I was drooling over too. I figured since we have the same taste in weapons, we'd favor the same PC

If they ever have a processor that they codename Davy Crockett...


I like that setup because the 'Bang for the Buck' factor looks good on that 1MB cache. I'm never one to pass-up spending a little extra money for more horsepower when the opportunity presents itself. I am and have always been a Tyan and Iwill fan, but I do like Asus as well.

rallynavvie knows his shit straight up when it comes to Intel-based workstations and such. Heed his words, O Vinyl One.

Is that your vinyl word?

[Piccoro]

Thought you'd be interested.
Link

Not sure what programs you use.

[Capmaster]

Thought you'd be interested.
Link

Not sure what programs you use.

Thanks for the link piccoro. I'll peruse it in detail when I have time.

The DH800 also has Intel CSA GbE so if you're using a wired network connection the controller doesn't go through the PCI bus first, it goes directly to the MCH so network access doesn't bottleneck at the ICH with all the drive activity. This controller is only available to the 875 chipset.

Damn, I hate talking with someone who knows so much more about PCs than I do ....really does a number on my ego
Seriously, thanks rally. As indolikaa pointed out, you, as we say in the PC game, "know your shit" I appreciate those tips and links and I think I have a good starting point. I know about the RAM prices, but you can't win 'em all, since CPU prices are pretty attractive lately.

I owe you a beer for all that good info you put in your posts. In fact I'm going to print the thread in case I can't find it later .....

[rallynavvie]

The funniest thing is I know next to nothing compared to some of these other guys I talk to about dual systems. When the acronyms start flying I'm lost

And I still don't have a clue about overclocking

[Capmaster]

The funniest thing is I know next to nothing compared to some of these other guys I talk to about dual systems. When the acronyms start flying I'm lost

And I still don't have a clue about overclocking

I guess that's a lesson we all learn with age, if we're paying attention - just when we think we know it all, someone comes along and makes us look like we're learning-disabled.

[rallynavvie]

when it comes to Intel-based workstations

...which I think is funny since I've never owned a dual Intel rig until now. I just like to do a lot of research before jumping into things. My video biz doesn't make enough money for me to flaunt it

Oh, the reason I dug this up: olly olly oxen-free!
Iwill released the DH800 stateside. Best bet is to order directly from Iwill USAs webstore. Cost $379 and shipping and they'll get it out right quick. I ordered mine today and it will be in the mail tomorrow. Also may help when requesting RMA if you bought it from them

Also, Intel went the way of Doom 3 with the Nocona core Xeon. All bets are off on processors so find a good deal on 3.2 Prestonias and have at 'em. I'm getting a pair of 2.8 533 HTs for the time being. Got 'em used for a good price. I suggest sniping on eBay for procs: saw a pair of 3.2s go for $1300. There will likely still be price drops at the end of May on Xeons, but now that Nocona isn't coming out I don't f'ing care! Let get this monster started!

So yeah, board is in the mail, procs are being finalized, Swiftech heatsinks in the mail, all other parts waiting for the board... just gotta get the board, cut my case apart to fit her in (12x10.6" board in case you're wondering), and get it started.

Oh, and be sure to save some cash for the $500 nVidia GeForce 6800 when it comes out. That thing should be a hoot 8)

[tgpo]

None of the above - If it ain't a Mac, it ain't worth buying

[indolikaa]

Thread hijacker!

[rallynavvie]

Bah, I've got a dual G5 at work. If I had dual 3.2 Xeons in the PC rig there I'd demote the G5 to a rip server for the printers :P