Why the hell do you do it.

[vitualis]

There is curious common belief, or at least the agenda that is pushed by some groups that marijuana is completely safe. Similarly, there is the agenda pushed by others that it is completely dangerous.

As with most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

For those of you who think that marijuana is completely safe, I can tell you now that it is not. I suggest that you visit an acute psychiatric facility some time. There are some seriously stuffed up people around and pot is definitely a contributing factor. Now you can argue until you are blue in the face on whether there is any hard evidence in whether or not marijuana actually causes/triggers true schizophrenia, but most (non-medical) people discussing those studies are missing the point. There is not doubt that marijuana can cause a schizophreniform drug-induced psychosis... often it is dose related, sometimes it is not. I've seen people who become floridly psychotic everytime they have a joint. In many ways, these people are not treated all that different from people with schizophrenia... except that they don't have the diagnosis.

Regards.

[budz]

Well I wasn't going to post in this thread because I didn't wanna start a war or want people in this forum to take it the wrong way. I'm not trying to be a saint because I've done the drugs and alcohol in my younger days.

beavereater wrote:

I think most of aren't condeming him for caring about his friends, but rather defending ourselves against the remark he made that us "Adults" are to blame. People can do whatever they want to their own bodies, I just think it's shitty that people blame others for their problems

I work in social services and I work with drug addicts and their families. I see the drug exposed babies who's mothers have used weed or crystal meth, or cocaine or all of the them. It's not only the mothers that expose the unborn fetus but the father as well if he is using drugs. These drug exposed infants didn't have a choice to what they wanted in their own bodies. I just wanted to point out that these babies don't ask to be born with drugs in their system.

To see a drug exposed baby suffer through withdrawls would make any one of you cry. How sad it is that some babies don't even have the normal sucking reflex to drink their milk bottles. Because of the drug exposure they don't know how to. To say people can do whatever they want to their own bodies is only to a certain extent. Meaning if a woman is pregnant then, no she doesn't have the right to do whatever she wants to her body because it will affect that unborn fetus. But yet the drug addiction is so great that they continue to use.

Adults are suppose to be the responsible ones and to set the example for their children. But as we all know their are some who have children and don't take the responsibility to care for them. Why because the parents were probably raised the same way and don't know how to be a responsible.

Sorry if I sort of went off the topic. That's all I have to say.

[VCDHunter]

There is curious common belief, or at least the agenda that is pushed by some groups that marijuana is completely safe. Similarly, there is the agenda pushed by others that it is completely dangerous.

As with most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Not reallly. Marijuana is a remarkably safe substance. Its the missuse and abuse of it by people who already have problems which are then exacerbated.

For those of you who think that marijuana is completely safe, I can tell you now that it is not.

Well thank you captain obvious. Nothing is completely safe. I could die from drinking too much water or falling down the stairs or tripping over a cracked paving slab, the list is almost endless.

I suggest that you visit an acute psychiatric facility some time.

No thanks, I'd rather not. I know a shed load of people who use pot and all of them have jobs, lives and don't run around with underpants on their head.

There are some seriously stuffed up people around and pot is definitely a contributing factor.

Yes and there are loads of seriously stuffed up people around who have never touched the stuff, infact they way outnumber the pot smokers.

Now you can argue until you are blue in the face on whether there is any hard evidence in whether or not marijuana actually causes/triggers true schizophrenia, but most (non-medical) people discussing those studies are missing the point. There is not doubt that marijuana can cause a schizophreniform drug-induced psychosis... often it is dose related, sometimes it is not.

So I can argue about links between marijuana and psycosis but I'd be missing the point because it does . . and you said so - so there.

I've seen people who become floridly psychotic everytime they have a joint. In many ways, these people are not treated all that different from people with schizophrenia... except that they don't have the diagnosis.
Regards.

And I've seen plenty of people who don't become "floridly psycotic" everytime they have a joint. They enjoy the Simpsons more, crank up Floyd a little louder than normal, cut down on the beer intake a little or order from dominos more than usual.

And don't forget all the good things pot have done for us too.

[vitualis]

Nothing is completely safe. I could die from drinking too much water or falling down the stairs or tripping over a cracked paving slab, the list is almost endless.

True. But the issue is the degree by which it happens.

People seem to always make the assumption that the dangers from marijuana is from "misuse". This is really a loaded term as you are assuming that there is a safe way to use it.

Sure, you can die from drinking too much water. However, the "normal" way of drinking it won't cause you any strife.

To some degree, it is the same from alcohol. You aren't going to harm yourself by having the occassional few drinks (unless you drive which is why it is illegal to drink and drive).

Most people won't have any long term effects from occasional use from marijuana. However, some will have severe long term effects even from very slight use.

Now, whether you consider that an "acceptable" risk in a "population" sense (as opposed to an "individual" sense) can be debated. My view is that it shouldn't be acceptable.

Regards.

[VCDHunter]

Nothing is completely safe. I could die from drinking too much water or falling down the stairs or tripping over a cracked paving slab, the list is almost endless.

True. But the issue is the degree by which it happens.

People seem to always make the assumption that the dangers from marijuana is from "misuse". This is really a loaded term as you are assuming that there is a safe way to use it.

I have been using it safely for years. So have a large number of people I know. People have been using it for thousands of years without any reported problems. I know of no one who has suffered problems due to this.

Sure, you can die from drinking too much water. However, the "normal" way of drinking it won't cause you any strife.

To some degree, it is the same from alcohol. You aren't going to harm yourself by having the occassional few drinks (unless you drive which is why it is illegal to drink and drive).

Hardly. Alcohol is a poison which damages the body everytime its ingested.

Most people won't have any long term effects from occasional use from marijuana. However, some will have severe long term effects even from very slight use.

That is an opinion rather than fact. To suggest that someone will turn, almost like a Jekyll & Hyde case, after one toke on a spliff is fairytale stuff, these people are obviouslly ill anyway.

Now, whether you consider that an "acceptable" risk in a "population" sense (as opposed to an "individual" sense) can be debated. My view is that it shouldn't be acceptable.

I see no "risk" as you put it - I myself have never seen anyone mentally colapse from using marijuana. I've never even been bothered by anyone smoking pot. Can't say the same about people who don't.

[Will Hay]

Will Hay

No, hang on, wait, at 14 you know everything, right?

nope, at 14 all you need is a swift kick in the ass

If only more people on this planet thought like me and you, but of course only where it's warranted, and only by parents
Will

[Capmaster]

I have been using it safely for years. So have a large number of people I know. People have been using it for thousands of years without any reported problems. I know of no one who has suffered problems due to this.

And a good thing it is that we have the chronic users, vocally extolling its virtues and safe nature and going along happily in their self-satisfied delusional bubble while all the time losing their ambition, short-term memory and decision-making ability. Otherwise we wouldn't have people to staff our minimum-wage jobs, happily flipping burgers and working at convenience stores their whole lives

Are they "safe" ...depends on how you define it. If you mean, do they go into an immediate psychosis every time they use it? No. The long-term effects aren't that obvious.

I've seen first-hand what this "safe" drug did to many of my high school buddies, many of whom I've known since elementary school. They are burnouts now ....no drive, motivation or ability to make decisions. One of them, Scott, whom I've known since first grade, lives his life with one goal - work somewhere long enough to collect unemployment, live off it til it runs out, then repeat. He used to be a self-starter ....sharp, motivated, enjoying his obvious intelligence.

They weren't like that before the pot. They just "go with the flow" now and sound a lot like VCDHunter when you discuss it with them, rationalizing to justify their habit. Sad. Like the TV ad, a mind IS a terrible thing to waste

[vitualis]

I have been using it safely for years. So have a large number of people I know. People have been using it for thousands of years without any reported problems. I know of no one who has suffered problems due to this.

You know, many people with end-stage COPD or lung cancer say exactly the same thing about smoking...

Hardly. Alcohol is a poison which damages the body everytime its ingested.

"Poison"...

Ethanol is an environmental chemical that our bodies are well equipped to handle in small amounts.

You can safely drink probably up to 4 standard drinks (40 g of ethanol) a day with no change in your mortality. One or two stanadard drinks probably confers a slight survival benefit!

That is an opinion rather than fact. To suggest that someone will turn, almost like a Jekyll & Hyde case, after one toke on a spliff is fairytale stuff, these people are obviouslly ill anyway.

I'm sorry, but I believe that "People have been using it for thousands of years without any reported problems. I know of no one who has suffered problems due to this" is "opinion" or at worse, erroneous.

I agree, the vast majority of people don't have problems with marijuana. That doesn't mean that NO ONE does. In fact, quite a lot of people do. This is really a denial of clear evidence. Not too different from smokers claiming that cigarettes don't cause lung cancer or increase the risk of heart disease or stroke, etc.

Rather than living in your cocoon of denial, actually go educate yourself by talking to the people who see this on a daily basis... emergency departments, acute psychiatric hospitals, magistrates.

Marijuana definitely triggers a drug induced psychosis in some people. I've seen it many times. Sometimes it is clearly dose related (e.g., people who smoke 30 cones a day for months). Sometimes it is not (e.g., they are otherwise completely okay until they smoke ONE and then they go crazy and require a psych admission for a week or two).

Before you go on about your your "n=1" experience to the contrary, this is MY "n=1" experience. I've SEEN it working in a psych ward and I've SEEN it working in emergency.

Marijuana definitely WORSENS some mental illnesses like bipolar affective disorder or schizophrenia.

Marijuana MAY be a cause of schizophrenia (or a triggering factor) but the association is weak.

I see no "risk" as you put it - I myself have never seen anyone mentally collapse from using marijuana.

Honestly, have you ever actually SEEN someone have lung cancer from cigarettes? Have you actually SEEN someone with a heroin overdose? Have you ever actually SEEN someone die from chronic liver diseae from alcohol?

Because you haven't SEEN it does it mean that there is no risk?

BTW, I have personally seen and managed all three of the above.

Now, you're well in the belief that marijuana is probably of no particular risk to YOU if you continue to use it the way you have been using. But that hardly means that it is an open recommendation to everyone.

What I am trying to dispel is this myth that marijuana is in essence "risk free" that the pro-marijuana lobby disseminates. It IS safe for the majority of people but a small number of people will have significant risks. Now that is no to say that we don't have a lot of other nasty drugs about... Heroin, amphetamines, cocaine, etc., are all much "worse" in terms of it's effect on the individual and alcohol and cigarettes are much "worse" on a population basis. I would fully agree that putting a lot of government money into anti-marijuana campaigns is unjustified from a public health perspective. However, I find the pro-marijuana stance equally illogical.

Best regards.

[Capmaster]

Good post Michael!

[VCDHunter]

I've seen first-hand what this "safe" drug did to many of my high school buddies, many of whom I've known since elementary school. They are burnouts now ....no drive, motivation or ability to make decisions. One of them, Scott, whom I've known since first grade, lives his life with one goal - work somewhere long enough to collect unemployment, live off it til it runs out, then repeat. He used to be a self-starter ....sharp, motivated, enjoying his obvious intelligence.

Really ? most of the people I know who use it are still fine. Many lead lives far more interesting than the average bod on the street. Maybe your buddies were losers waiting to happen anyway. Marijuana doesn't make you unmotivated - it just makes you reallize that half of what you do ain't worth the effort

There is nothing I can do straight better than I can do high. Except maybe fight. But I've never needed to find out and I hope I never do.

Honestly, have you ever actually SEEN someone have lung cancer from cigarettes? Have you actually SEEN someone with a heroin overdose? Have you ever actually SEEN someone die from chronic liver diseae from alcohol?

Yes, yes and no.

I'm sorry, but I believe that "People have been using it for thousands of years without any reported problems. I know of no one who has suffered problems due to this" is "opinion" or at worse, erroneous.

I see - the fact that I know of no one who has suffered problems due to marijuana is opinion ? Riiiight.

Well I am off now to find out. Will post results, sorry, opinion later.

[Capmaster]

Really ? most of the people I know who use it are still fine. Many lead lives far more interesting than the average bod on the street. Maybe your buddies were losers waiting to happen anyway. Marijuana doesn't make you unmotivated - it just makes you reallize that half of what you do ain't worth the effort

Thank you for helping me make my point.

[flaninacupboard]

My brother is two years older than me. he completed A levels then went on to a career in IT, monitoring and administrating servers for a copany called Capita. good job, good money. we used to have technical and philosophical discussions all the time. he beame a casual user last year of school, and remained so ever since. here we are a few short years later, he lost his job (because he forgot to go to work) and now works in Toys'r'us. he finishes every sentance "yeah yeah yeah, cool cool cool." No, no negative effect there at all...

[rkr1958]

People these days seriously dont give a **** what happens to them. Im 14 and about 9/10 of my peers smoke weed, drink and all that shit. That really pisses me off. And you ******* adults dont help either. I have a friend where his mom lets him drink and watch porn. Remember hes 14. Anyways this is sorta a reminder to all you idiots to stop doin stupid shit. If you want a rush go skydive or somthing.

O.K. I'll help ... WATCH YOUR MOUTH!!!! ... ANY LEARN SOME RESPECT!!!! ... Where have all the manners gone? Too much MTV, Too much Osbornes I guess.

I'm old school. I'm 45 and have a 3 year old. If he talked like you when he's 14 I'd ground him for a month.

[Ripper2860]

My two cents...

I'm not going to debate whether "Pot" has long-term negative health affects, although I believe that it does -- at least it has to be equally as bad as smoking unfiltered cigarettes. Or whether it has a negative affect on motivation and drive; or even if it is addictive, impairs judgement or leads to mental health issues.

Here in the US it is illegal (unless prescribed for medicinal purposes). We as individuals live in a society. Society is governed by rules or laws. These laws are usually put in place for the benefit of society and are typically representative of the desires of the majority. I teach my kids that they cannot pick and choose which laws to obey, and therefore set the example by my adhering to the laws of the land. I expect them to adhere to them and the punishment for not doing so is pretty extreme in my household. The price in society for not adhering to these laws can be quite severe -- it can keep you from getting or keeping a job; It can keep you from getting into a good college, etc; It can land you in jail. The potential consequences can be long-lasting.

For me it's cut and dry. It is illegal unless prescribed, and that is that. I'll debate the other issues if and when the law changes. Rightfully or wrongfully, alcohol is not illegal and neither are cigarettes -- use of those items, once of age, is a personal choice where one determines whether it is right or wrong for them by using their own belief systems -- hopefully instilled by you as a parent or parents. When it comes to Marijuana, the decision has already been made -- it is illegal. It is wrong. Don't agree? -- Change the laws!

And for God's sake -- if you have kids, be a PARENT. Your kids have enough friends. It's not your job to be their PAL. It is your job to prepare them for the "real" world -- and yes in the real world there is conformity and rules. There are expectations and demands placed on folks at work and in life. Prepare them for it. They'll love you for it later.

[budz]

Ripper2860 wrote:

And for God's sake -- if you have kids, be a PARENT. Your kids have enough friends. It's not your job to be their PAL. It is your job to prepare them for the "real" world -- and yes in the real world there is conformity and rules. There are expectations and demands placed on folks at work and in life. Prepare them for it. They'll love you for it later.

You're statement is right on the money! But remember their are parents that don't know how to be a "PARENT".

[Marco33]

People these days seriously dont give a **** what happens to them. Im 14 and about 9/10 of my peers smoke weed, drink and all that shit. That really pisses me off. And you ******* adults dont help either. I have a friend where his mom lets him drink and watch porn. Remember hes 14. Anyways this is sorta a reminder to all you idiots to stop doin stupid shit. If you want a rush go skydive or somthing.

It's good to hear a young adult feel this way. You are right, the adults are the problem.

I see teenagers go up and down my street, smoking and throwing trash on the lawns. Even if the parents knew, they would not care. It amazes me the kind of crap parents ignore.

You can't tell me it's pier-pressure. I hung out with plenty of kids who smoked and drank yet, I did not. They knew I was not into that stuff and they were ok with it. We would even make a joke out of it. We would wait for the forst person to offer me a hit, then laugh cause everybody else new I didn't smoke.

Any "Friend" who pushes anything on you, is not a friend.

[VCDHunter]

he lost his job (because he forgot to go to work)

What ? Are you seriously suggesting someone forgot to go to work ? Just once and got fired ? All day he never thought, "hmmm you know I'm sure there's something I should be doing today between the hours of 9 till 5, but no I can't for the life of me remember." Really . . . ? I doubt it.

[gmatov]

Basicslly does it not come down to "Because we can?" You are my kid, and I will whoop your ass if you do that?

If your friends do this stuff, and try to get you to, are they really your friends, or are they a bunch of losers who want you to lose with them?

Everybody tries to blame the parents. So damn easy. Yet why do some of the best and brightest come from "broken homes", and some of the worst SOBs come fro, the "silver spoon" clicque?

Step back a pace. You are you. Those ******** you hang out with are not YOU. You want to be like them, be my guest. You want to pretend to be dumb, as I think is the official policy, again, be my guest.

You want to learn it all, do it. The only limit is what you can absorb, and what they can teach . Boy, to be 14 again, to know what I thought I knew.

I don't wish to be 14 again. That's a half century ago, darn near. Go for it, lad, learn something, hell, anything, just learn that one thing well

Cheers,

George

[Capmaster]

I got this in my e-mail today at work and it reminded me of this thread:

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend by the name of Common Sense who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valued lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm and that Life isn't always fair.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not kids, are in charge). His health began to rapidly deteriorate when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate, teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch, and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Finally, Common sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense finally gave up the ghost after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, spilled it in her lap, and was awarded a huge settlement. Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by two stepbrothers; My Rights and Ima Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

[VCDHunter]

I got this in my e-mail today at work and it reminded me of this thread:

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend by the name of Common Sense who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valued lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm and that Life isn't always fair.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not kids, are in charge). His health began to rapidly deteriorate when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate, teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch, and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Finally, Common sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense finally gave up the ghost after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, spilled it in her lap, and was awarded a huge settlement. Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by two stepbrothers; My Rights and Ima Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

I have highlighted, in red, the most shocking part :P

[Capmaster]

I have highlighted, in red, the most shocking part

You're right. I know that I'm the ONLY one here, or anywhere else, that actually sends and receives personal e-mail while at work. I keep telling my friends that, dammit anyways, when I'm at work I don't want any distractions from funny or intelligent e-mails. I feel so guilty ....so embarrassed .....
I'm a baaaadd influence on this board
VCDHunter, ....I hope that wasn't all you got out of that

Here are a couple other absolutely scandalous pics from e-mails I got here at work:

French Special Forces:



Women IT professionals:

[VCDHunter]

I have highlighted, in red, the most shocking part

You're right. I know that I'm the ONLY one here, or anywhere else, that actually sends and receives personal e-mail while at work. I keep telling my friends that, dammit anyways, when I'm at work I don't want any distractions from funny or intelligent e-mails. I feel so guilty ....so embarrassed .....
I'm a baaaadd influence on this board
VCDHunter, ....I hope that wasn't all you got out of that

I was refering to the fact you're in work today - ain't it a holiday where you are ?

If these are the kind of emails you get count yourself lucky - I have a mate who has spent the last 6 months in Oz and seems to have spent
every waking minute searching the net for porn and then sending me them in work

Here are a couple other absolutely scandalous pics from e-mails I got here at work:
<snip>

The first one is Monty Python and its a killer sketch can't remember the freakin name and all my python series are on VHS, which I ain't forwarding through

[Capmaster]

I have highlighted, in red, the most shocking part

You're right. I know that I'm the ONLY one here, or anywhere else, that actually sends and receives personal e-mail while at work. I keep telling my friends that, dammit anyways, when I'm at work I don't want any distractions from funny or intelligent e-mails. I feel so guilty ....so embarrassed .....
I'm a baaaadd influence on this board
VCDHunter, ....I hope that wasn't all you got out of that

I was refering to the fact you're in work today - ain't it a holiday where you are ?

If these are the kind of emails you get count yourself lucky - I have a mate who has spent the last 6 months in Oz and seems to have spent
every waking minute searching the net for porn and then sending me them in work

Here are a couple other absolutely scandalous pics from e-mails I got here at work:
<snip>

The first one is Monty Python and its a killer sketch can't remember the freakin name and all my python series are on VHS, which I ain't forwarding through

Sorry about that VCDHunter . I thought it was a pot-shot at getting it at work.

I forgot most of you guys get a 4-day weekend. My buddy in Sweden rubbed it in really good this year. I got a 2-day weekend :P Most places over here don't get any extra or at the most get Good Friday. Easter Monday isn't a national holiday here like in UK or Canada.

On the other hand, I get from about Dec. 23 to about Jan. 5 off every year without having to use vacation, and I get 192 hours of vacation every year and every other Friday off and all the big holidays, so I'm not complaining too loudly

Heh heh ...I've gotten the porn at work too. We have firewall phrase traps which log every time "Joe Blow", whose IP address is XXXXX gets a website with a word on the standard obscenity list in it. Also we have random e-mail sampling going on so I usually don't open questionable e-mail unless it's from a friend who knows my situation. Once I got an e-mail with an 800x600 beaver shot in it. I crossed my fingers they hadn't picked my IP to monitor that day

That Monty Python was a classic wasn't it? They had me almost pissing my pants I was laughing so hard

[flaninacupboard]

His doctor gave him some leave from work, and he couldn't remember when he was supposed to go back. the note telling him when to go back was pinned up in his kitchen. he'd forgotten it was there.

[Capmaster]

His doctor gave him some leave from work, and he couldn't remember when he was supposed to go back. the note telling him when to go back was pinned up in his kitchen. he'd forgotten it was there.

[Scottie]

I rember when I was 12 & 13 my mom would leave and my little sister alone for sometime days, and when she was home she'd find Cigrettes in my pockets and hide them in the cupboards and not say anything to me, I'd just get them later and smoke them, I wish I never started smoking.

Started smoking pot and drinking at about 14 living with my 18 year old sister, I'd mostly smoke it with her friends but a few of my friends smoked to, I don't drink or Smoke pot anymore.

I'd did acid a few time when I was 16 and 17, stopped that though.

did mushrooms once.

when I was 13 my a another frined of mine got high off gas fumes about 5 times untill I split my head open.

Now I don't do anything but smoke ciggerets, most of my frineds are in jail. And I spend way to much time on my computer, I've downloaded some much porn it's hard to find something I haven't seen before.

My Girlfriend dosen't let me watch any more porn.

I think it comes down to the parents rising thier kids.

Porns ok.

what I'm trying to say get other freinds or stay away from your old frineds when they do stuff you don't like, I'm sure they will find a day or 2 a week where they can stop, Looking at porn, Smoking or Drinking.

[Cobra]

I think it comes down to the parents rising thier kids.

Are you saying you had no free will, or no sense of right or wrong? I don't think it's up to your parents to keep you right, but yourself.

Personally, I knew a few people who dabbled in drugs when I was as young as 12. I had ready access to them, but I was never tempted to even try them. I believe drugs are an expensive method of screwing your life up.

I don't mind what others do, and I don't mind my friends using recreational drugs. If they got into trouble with the drugs, I'd be a good friend and do what I'd expect them to do with me.

I'd knock them flat.

Cobra

[pyscrow]

I feel sorry for the parents and siblings....
Ya cant say these druggo's have not been warned about putting this rubish in their body, anti drugs campaigns have been around for 20 years or more.

If they drop dead thats fine, its when their minds or bodies go, and they become a useless burden on society that I object to.

Saw a local show the other day that said that drug use was rife (as usual) in the dance party scene, with ten admissions to hospitial every weekend from overdoses of liquid GBH alone in Sydney.... and that over 50% of GBH users in Sydney have experienced an overdose in the last year...

My brother in law is totally drug f#cked (pyscotic, no memory, etc etc) from years of sticking whatever he can lay his hands on into his body, he has been hospitalised numerous times, cleaned out his parents house a few times to support his habit of the moment, and overall become such a danger to himself and his family none of us will let him in our houses!